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Losing my e-Book religion

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wraith808:
I've been a big user of e-books even before the current craze, starting back on my first windows phone many moons ago.

I've never complained about their need to use DRM.  I even purchased my library of books multiple times.  First in .lit format for the Microsoft Reader.  Then in Mobipocket format, then Ereader format.  I've begun to use epub when ever possible, but since Fictionwise was bought by Barnes & Noble, decided on B&N as my next platform.

I bought a Nook Color for my daughter for Christmas.  Other than buying books for her, that might be my last Barnes and Noble purchase.  And I might foot the bill (if she'll go for it) to get her a Kindle, if it's not similarly limited.  Let's start with a story.

I bought an iPad instead of a proprietary reader for myself- because I saw how the market was fracturing.  Since the iPad can use multiple stores as they all write an iOS client, and it had Stanza, which read all of my old books from Fictionwise (encrypted or not), I thought it was a good choice.

Barnes & Noble has updated their reader multiple times. 

First, it removed Fictionwise support, so I couldn't use my Fictionwise library, even though Fictionwise still proudly proclaims itself 'A Barnes & Noble Company'.  Thankfully I backed up the eReader, so I still have it... but still... and they won't answer questions about it, or it's fate.

The next updates *each* required that you re-download your whole library.  Even though inconvenient, it wasn't bad until the last one.

Barnes & Noble requires that you keep a credit card on the account.  I have a CC that I maintain to keep my credit active.  I don't actually use it much, and it has a low limit.  I had to use it unexpectedly, so it was at this limit- I was going to pay it off before the next cycle, but that was a ways off, so I put it off.

The new update required that I re-download my library.  First, I wasn't at a place where I had signal, so I couldn't re-download when I wanted to read.  Then when I was somewhere that I could... I couldn't.

About the same time, I bought my daughter a gift of a couple of books.  She couldn't download her books either.

I called their Customer (no-)Service.  The first point of disconnect- the problem worked previously, and the CS rep wanted me to do something totally unnecessary, rather than looking elsewhere (install IE).  When I refused to because I knew it wasn't a browser issue, he became non-helpful.

The actual problem, that another CS rep helped me understand, was that though this was a gift (to an 11-year old daughter to make it worse), it still required a working credit card.  In my case, it was the same problem- it required a working credit card. 

In the end, there was no way until it was under the limit that either of us could download any book... even if a) we used a gift card to pay, b) we were gifted a book, c) we were getting a free book, or d) we were downloading a book we already owned.

There is something seriously wrong with this.

I'm going to try Kindle to see if it has the same limitations.  It already has a leg up on Barnes & Noble because you can sideload to your library by e-mail.  Hopefully this CC BS doesn't exist either.  Because if I buy something and I can't access it because of your BS limitations when I want to access it, even though your service is still going- that's the deal breaker for me.

IainB:
There is something seriously wrong with this.
-wraith808 (February 21, 2012, 03:10 PM)
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You post reads like a complaint, but I don't see why it should be a complaint.
Maybe you are spot-on in calling this discussion:
Losing my e-Book religion
--- End quote ---
In the discussions elsewhere in the forum you had indicated that you had invested in this kind of e-book technology.
However, for the life of me, I have so far been unable to understand how people could actually buy this technology without serious misgivings up front, because there is nothing to say that the suppliers will not tie you (the customer) up in knots like the ones you describe. Certainly, some customers' early experience of Amazon's Kindle indicated that that was precisely what they seemed to be seeking to do. So you are buying with the caveat emptor.

I think it probably requires the user taking a "leap of faith" to do that - so "religion" could be an apposite term to apply here.

You say:
I've never complained about their need to use DRM.
--- End quote ---
I cannot understand your lack of skepticism of such business practices, when all you need to do is look around enquiringly, including, for example:

* Why are they doing it, and what benefit do they derive from it? ($$$)
* What benefit does the user derive from it? (None at all. It's a disadvantageous constraint.)
* How Microsoft years ago surreptitiously forced DRM into Windows Media Player - you couldn't turn DRM off at first, and it's still difficult for the inexperienced user to do that - e.g., monitor and control outbound traffic through the firewall. The default is that DRM is "ON", and the player "phones home" - a lot.
* How DVDs were so artificially geographically "zoned" for supposed (but arguably quite unnecessary) DRM purposes.
* Why Sony paid an estimated US$500M to the Big Studios to get them to standardise on Blue-Ray.
* Amazon's well-publicised games with Kindle customers' property.
The bad ripoff experience with Barnes & Noble that you describe apparently follows your earlier decision to standardise on their e-book platform.
That apparently hasn't worked out too well, so you are now intending going to the Amazon Kindle platform to see how that works out.
There's a rationale for this:
I'm going to try Kindle to see if it has the same limitations.  It already has a leg up on Barnes & Noble because... [insert justification here]
--- End quote ---
You have already been seemingly suppliant in allowing B&N to make a victim of you, and now you are apparently going to give the same opportunity to Amazon to do similar, when all the evidence (QED) indicates that they probably will oblige. Their knots will probably be different in specifics, but similar in type.

I have to ask: At what point do you make a stand for yourself and refuse to allow suppliers any leeway or opportunity to rip you off, making you a victim once again?

You post reads like a complaint, but I don't see why it should be a complaint - because it seems to me that you asked for this situation.

wraith808:
You post reads like a complaint, but I don't see why it should be a complaint - because it seems to me that you asked for this situation.
-IainB (February 21, 2012, 04:54 PM)
--- End quote ---

You might not be able to see a difference, but *I* can.  There are certain lines that one can draw without making an ultimatum, and I said what it was in the post.  If it comes to a time when I can't access my purchased content when I want to without artificial limitations, then that's the line I draw.  I will do due diligence to make sure that this isn't the case, but why does *your* line have to be *mine*?  Just because you see it as an either or situation doesn't mean that everyone does.  I see ti a bit differently as an author (and the same thing happened with software when I started being a developer rather than just a consumer).

It's all well and good to want to trust people blindly, but I've seen that this is not a true stance from personal experience.  Some people believe that information just wants to be free, placing no value on the time and effort it takes to bring it to them.  Therefore I do believe there needs to be some sort of medium in between, where consumers can buy the product that the want easily, and access them easily, and perpetually, and have true ownership over them.  I also believe that the producers of said products should be able to make a living off of their works from the audience that wants to purchase them.  I believe also that the technology exists to make such possible.

But I (unfortunately) believe that greed, selfishness, and self-righteousness on both sides will never make the sides able to come to the table and come to something in the middle.  So I don't know if this situation will ever be able to be resolved in the way that it should be.

This belief doesn't make it so that I asked for anything, and indeed I've kept this post civil by the skin of my teeth in the face of a condescending reply to the situation, rather than a rational discussion of the salient points.

Innuendo:
I'm not going to weigh in on who is worse in regards to B&N or Amazon. What I would like to do is encourage the OP to look at what's available in Android tablets before blindly buying the Kindle Fire. The Android Market has both the Nook & Kindle apps (as well as a slew of other ereader apps) and they all work on every Android tablet.

40hz:

indeed I've kept this post civil by the skin of my teeth in the face of a condescending reply to the situation, rather than a rational discussion of the salient points.
-wraith808 (February 21, 2012, 05:14 PM)
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@wraith - Duly noted and appreciated. Thank you. :)

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