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Last post Author Topic: SOPA Shelved - ACTA is Worse  (Read 8122 times)

Renegade

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SOPA Shelved - ACTA is Worse
« on: January 24, 2012, 06:56:58 AM »
So, with that SOPA/PIPA garbage legislation shelved until we're not looking, looks like there's another: ACTA. It's been in the works for a while.

http://en.wikipedia....ting_Trade_Agreement

Quote
The University of Ottawa's Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic filed an access to information request but received only a document stating the title of the agreement, with everything else blacked out.

It's that bad? Yep.

Not only does it target free speech, but it targets a lot more. Generic medicine. Seeds for plants.








The people behind these things are all over the place. Everywhere. They're like cockroaches.


You just can't make this stuff up. It's like a dystopian horror novel/movie. But worse.



Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

kunkel321

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Re: SOPA Shelved - ACTA is Worse
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2012, 09:11:04 AM »
I live in Wa State and got the below email about the "OPEN Act." NOw I need to figure out that that's all about.  Sounds like more of the same.
===========

Dear Mr. Kunkel,
 
Thank you for contacting me about the internet streaming of copyrighted material . I appreciate hearing from you on this issue.
 
On May 12, 2011, Senator Leahy (D-VT) introduced S. 968, the Preventing Real Online Threats to Economic Creativity and Theft of Intellectual Property (PROTECT IP) Act. Under current federal law, U.S. law enforcement officials and holders of copyrights, trademarks, and patents, have limited legal remedies available to combat internet websites that are registered in foreign countries but operate in the United States by selling products, services, and/or content that violates U.S. intellectual property law. If enacted, the proposed legislation would create an expedited process for the Department of Justice and intellectual property rights holders to shut down through a court order these websites by targeting the owners and operators of the Internet site, if known, or the domain name registrant associated with the Internet site.
 
While I am supportive of the goal of protecting intellectual property, I am deeply concerned that the definitions and the means by which the legislation seeks to accomplish these goals will have unintended consequences and hurt innovation, job creation, and threaten online speech and security. On November 17, 2011, I signed a letter along with Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR) objecting to the bill as it is currently written.   
 
On December 17, 2011, Senator Wyden introduced the "Online Protection and Enforcement of Digital Trade" (OPEN) Act (S. 2029), of which I am an original co-sponsor. The bill has been referred to the Senate Finance Committee, where it is currently awaiting further review. The OPEN Act is a more effective approach to stop foreign web sites that are found to be primarily and willfully used to infringe intellectual property rights. The OPEN Act builds on the existing legal framework used by the International Trade Commission (ITC) for addressing unfair acts in the importation of articles into the United States, or in their sale for importation, or sale within the United States after importation.
 
Our trade laws have yet to catch up to deal with the global digital economy. The OPEN Act recognizes that the Internet has created new opportunities for foreign products to reach the U.S. market and that there is little difference between downloading a pirated movie from a foreign website and importing a counterfeit movie DVD from a foreign company. For those foreign web sites that are determined after an investigation to be primarily and willfully infringing, the International Trade Commission will issue a "Cease and Desist" order. The "Cease and  Desist " order may also be served on financial intermediaries that provide services to that foreign web site, compelling financial payment processors and online advertising providers to cease doing business with the foreign site in question.  This would cut off financial incentives for this illegal activity and deter these unfair imports from reaching the U.S. market.
 
The OPEN Act addresses the same challenges as the PROTECT IP Act, while protecting freedom of speech, innovation, and security on the Internet. The challenge of rogue web sites is one that many nations face. The United States has always been seen as a leader on Internet issues. Laws we establish in the United States regarding the Internet are likely to be used as models around the world. And because the Internet is global in nature, it is important that we carefully consider how the laws and policies we adopt in this area may be received and translated by other countries.
 
The Protect IP Act was scheduled to go to the Senate floor for a procedural vote on January 23, 2011. Due to the effective grassroots advocacy and public outcry against the bill, Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) has pulled the proposed legislation from the floor calendar. 
 
I appreciate Majority Leader Reid's decision to postpone a vote on the PROTECT IP Act. America's economy thrives on innovation and freedom of speech. We can't afford to rush an Internet policy that could trample on our innovation economy. The American people clearly spoke and their voices were heard. As we move forward, I'll continue to advocate for a policy that protects both creative content and online freedom of speech.
Thank you again for contacting me to share your thoughts on this matter. You may also be interested in signing up for periodic updates for Washington State residents. If you are interested in subscribing to this update, please visit my website at  http://cantwell.senate.gov . Please do not hesitate to contact me in the future if I can be of further assistance.
 
Sincerely,
Maria Cantwell
United States Senator

Renegade

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Re: SOPA Shelved - ACTA is Worse
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2012, 09:15:52 AM »
Yeah... Just saw the OPEN stuff...

http://www.activistp...ve-and-new-bill.html

http://www.keepthewebopen.com

I have not read it yet, but my guess is that it's going to try to slip in some of the same stuff.

The attack on free speech has many fronts. There's a full out Von Clausewitz total war of Biblical proportion on free speech now.

They're not going to stop until they are stopped.


Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Renegade

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Re: SOPA Shelved - ACTA is Worse
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2012, 11:58:58 AM »
Ooops... Looks like it's too late...

https://rt.com/news/...t-censor-treaty-591/

:(
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

IainB

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Re: SOPA Shelved - ACTA is Worse
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2012, 04:20:28 AM »
The people behind these things are all over the place. Everywhere. They're like cockroaches.
Yup.
Quote
"Infiltrate, organise, agitate." - a Communist catchcry.
- but it's not just the Communists that use it nowadays.

For example: Big Business:
Spoiler
After watching the film Food Corp., you understand that there are huge shadowy psychopathic Capitalist organisations - the biggest of which seems to be Monsanto - which are successfully patenting GM (Genetically Modified) grain seeds - the staple foods necessary for human life. The example in the film was GM corn - now used on a massive scale for animal feed, as the feedstock for synthetic and apparently dangerous byproducts ("Corn syrup" and HFCS - high-fructose corn syrup), and as the feedstock for ethanol fuel. The strategy appeared to be to develop a GM strain, patent it, then get all farmers to use it, and push out the main competitor (ordinary strains of corn) by making it illegal to use them, and destroying the livelihoods of anyone who tried to use the old strains - by legal process. At the same time, the marketing of all corn products is being pushed with amazing thoroughness. So thorough in fact that:
  • it is now difficult to find many sweetened processed foods that do not contain corn HFCS,
  • corn is becoming the only feed allowed for factory-farmed beef cattle and battery hens,
  • the increasing use of corn for strategic ethanol supplies risks limiting the supply of and pushing up the price of corn as a food.

Them're BIG cockroaches.

But the smaller ones are vastly more numerous and are arguably more successful than the larger ones. They work with and through almost all elements of social and civil organisations.

For example, from Wikipedia - Communist Party USA
Spoiler
Quote
Contents:
    1 Personnel
    2 State Affiliates
    3 Purpose
    4 Work in the South
    5 Religious work
   6 Cultural work
    7 CPUSA Printing Shops
    8 Communist Party fronts
    9 Events
   10 Environmental activism
    11 Membership numbers
    12 Daily World 50th Anniversary celebration
   13 Communist Party infiltration of the Democratic Party
        13.1 Mitchell on moving the Democrats left
        13.2 "People's forces"
    14 CPLAN
       14.1 Working through the Quad caucus"
        14.2 Running as Democrats
   15 Relations with China and Vietnam
    16 Possibilities under Obama
    17 Solidarity with Sept. 24 FBI Raid Activists
    18 External links
    19 References
Quote
Communist Party USA is America's oldest and most influential Marxist-Leninist organization. It was founded in 1919 and its constitution was first published in 1987. The constitution states the Communist Party USA is "the party of and for the U.S. working class."

It works to battle capitalism and the drive for maximum profits, because it believes the living standards of workers and the natural environment are under attack.[1].

Personnel
Click here for a page containing comprehensive information on CPUSA leadership.

State Affiliates
KeyWiki has in depth information on the following state affiliates and Party clubs of the CPUSA:
    Arizona District Communist Party USA
    California District Communist Party USA - Northern Region
    California District Communist Party USA - Southern Region
    Communist Party of Eastern Pennsylvania & Delaware
    Communist Party of Illinois
    Communist Party of Indiana
    Communist Party of Maine
    Communist Party of Maryland
    Communist Party of Massachusetts
    Communist Party of Michigan
    Communist Party of Minnesota and the Dakotas
    Communist Party of New Jersey
    Communist Party of New Mexico
    Communist Party of Ohio
    Communist Party of Oregon
    Communist Party of Texas
    Communist Party of Washington State
    Communist Party of Western Pennsylvania
    Communist Party of Missouri-Kansas District
    Connecticut Communist Party
    Communist Party USA of North Carolina
    Communist Party USA of South Carolina
    Florida District Communist Party USA
    New York State Communist Party
    Communist Party of Alabama
    Communist Party of Colorado
    Communist Party of Georgia
    Communist Party of Hawaii
    Communist Party of Tennessee
    Communist Party of Wisconsin

Purpose
From the Communist Party USA constitution;[2]
    The Communist Party USA is the party of and for the U.S. working class, a class which is multiracial, multinational, and unites men and women, young and old, employed and unemployed, organized and unorganized, gay and straight, native-born and immigrant, urban and rural, and composed of workers who perform a large range of physical and mental labor—the vast majority of our society. We are the party of the African American, Mexican American, Puerto Rican, all other Latino American, Native American, Asian American, and all racially and nationally oppressed peoples, as well as women, youth, and all other working people..."

    "Founded in Chicago in 1919, the Communist Party of the United States has an outstanding history in the struggles for peace, democratic rights, racial and gender equality, economic justice, union organization, and international solidarity. Our Party is organized on the principle of democratic centralism, combining maximum democratic discussion and decision-making with maximum unity of will and action, ensuring our ability to play a strong organizing role in the class struggle. We focus our efforts on increasing our ability to organize millions into struggle, fighting anti-communism as a divisive weapon of the capitalist class. With Marxism-Leninism guiding our actions, the Communist Party strives to build the broadest unity against global capitalist imperialism now headed by U.S. imperialism, for immediate gains and reforms that benefit working people, and for a progressive democratization of the government, the economy, and society of our country on the road to and after winning socialism..."


Unfortunately, if you want to do something about cockroaches, then your only option seems to be to exterminate them.

kyrathaba

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Re: SOPA Shelved - ACTA is Worse
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2012, 07:24:59 AM »
Quote
You just can't make this stuff up. It's like a dystopian horror novel/movie. But worse.

+1.

tranglos

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Re: SOPA Shelved - ACTA is Worse
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2012, 07:40:29 AM »
Unfortunately, if you want to do something about cockroaches, then your only option seems to be to exterminate them.

Iain, I don't understand. First you have the big business, which does what you say it does. (That's what you get when profit is the sole purpose. When a person acts for profit before everything else, we call that person a sociopath or worse. But when a group of people band together as a corporation and do the same, we call them the most productive members of the society and bestow all kinds of accolades on them, and indeed let them effectively run our countries - yours and mine both. End digression.)

And then you have a small party, whose ideology is to stop them from doing all that. Yet they are both cockroaches to you, how?

Or how you could say entities like the Communist Party are more "successful" than the big business - that's equally puzzling. How do you measure success to arrive at this outcome?

(Or maybe I'm just swallowing the bait.)

40hz

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Re: SOPA Shelved - ACTA is Worse
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2012, 09:15:17 AM »

(Or maybe I'm just swallowing the bait.)


Hmm...you think maybe? ;D



tranglos

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Re: SOPA Shelved - ACTA is Worse
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2012, 09:40:22 AM »
(Or maybe I'm just swallowing the bait.)
Hmm...you think maybe? ;D

Yeah, I know. False equivalences like these are a hot button thing for me, can't help it! It's like a bunch of thugs try to mug you at night, you fight back, and in newspapers all of you were "committing acts of aggression". Standard journalistic fare. I have a huge allergic reaction to that, and it shows :)

Renegade

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Re: SOPA Shelved - ACTA is Worse
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2012, 10:00:58 AM »
I don't really have a problem with theoretical communism (Marxism). I actually think that it is a better system.

However, I don't think that it's a better system for humans... We're simply not compatible with it. We're greedy, envious, vicious things and we pervert it to twisted ends as has been shown several times in several places.

Communism requires a few characteristics that are not present in the human population in sufficient quantity.


Oh... I forgot... Through decades of neglect and indifference, we've also managed to turn democracy into a farce as well. Meh. Guess we're not ready for that & need a fascist totalitarian dictator to enslave us for a few centuries until we finally smarten up... :P Taking away free speech is a good step in that direction~! :P


Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Renegade

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Re: SOPA Shelved - ACTA is Worse
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2012, 10:11:07 AM »
Iain posted a joke in the NFSW silly humour thread, and it linked to this:

https://plus.google....09/posts/4GgaRiSyaTf

READ IT~!

No. Really... Click the link. You will thank me. Or thank Iain. Or both of us. But you WILL be thankful~! :D


Fine... If you're too lazy to click the link, then click here...
Joel Spolsky  -  Jan 22, 2012  -  Public
Two things about SOPA/PIPA and then I'll shut up :)

(1)

The internet seems to ignore legislation until somebody tries to take something away from us... then we carefully defend that one thing and never counter-attack. Then the other side says, "OK, compromise," and gets half of what they want. That's not the way to win... that's the way to see a steady and continuous erosion of rights online.

The solution is to start lobbying for our own laws. It's time to go on the offensive if we want to preserve what we've got. Let's force the RIAA and MPAA to use up all their political clout just protecting what they have. Here are some ideas we should be pushing for:

* Elimination of software patents
* Legal fees paid by the loser in patent cases; non-practicing entities must post bond before they can file fishing expedition lawsuits
* Roll back length of copyright protection to the minimum necessary "to promote the useful arts." Maybe 10 years?
* Create a legal doctrine that merely linking is protected free speech
* And ponies. We want ponies. We don't have to get all this stuff. We merely have to tie them up fighting it, and re-center the "compromise" position.

(2)

The dismal corruption of congress has gotten it to the point where lobbying for legislation is out of control. As Larry Lessig has taught us, the core rottenness originates from the high cost of running political campaigns, which mostly just goes to TV stations.

A solution is for the Internet industry to start giving free advertising to political campaigns on our own new media assets... assets like YouTube that are rapidly displacing television. Imagine if every political candidate had free access (under some kind of "equal time" rule) to enough advertising inventory on the Internet to run a respectable campaign. Sure, candidates can still pay to advertise on television, but the cost of campaigning would be a lot lower if every candidate could run geo-targeted pre-roll ads on YouTube, geo-targeted links at the top of Reddit.com, even targeted campaigns on Facebook. If the Internet can donate enough inventory (and I suspect we can), we can make it possible for a candidate to get elected without raising huge war chests from donors who are going to want something in return, and we may finally get to a point where every member of congress isn't in permanent outstretched-hand mode.

Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Stoic Joker

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Re: SOPA Shelved - ACTA is Worse
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2012, 11:31:01 AM »
Quote
The internet seems to ignore legislation until somebody tries to take something away from us... then we carefully defend that one thing and never counter-attack. Then the other side says, "OK, compromise," and gets half of what they want. That's not the way to win... that's the way to see a steady and continuous erosion of rights online.

The solution is to start lobbying for our own laws. It's time to go on the offensive if we want to preserve what we've got. Let's force the RIAA and MPAA to use up all their political clout just protecting what they have.

Now that's brilliant! All we need is a small hoard of (mildly psychotic) legal types to start flooding them with a constant barrage of "legal" bullshit, and it'll be like hitting them with a courtroom based DoS attack.

Renegade

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Re: SOPA Shelved - ACTA is Worse
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2012, 11:52:37 AM »
Quote
The internet seems to ignore legislation until somebody tries to take something away from us... then we carefully defend that one thing and never counter-attack. Then the other side says, "OK, compromise," and gets half of what they want. That's not the way to win... that's the way to see a steady and continuous erosion of rights online.

The solution is to start lobbying for our own laws. It's time to go on the offensive if we want to preserve what we've got. Let's force the RIAA and MPAA to use up all their political clout just protecting what they have.

Now that's brilliant! All we need is a small hoard of (mildly psychotic) legal types to start flooding them with a constant barrage of "legal" bullshit, and it'll be like hitting them with a courtroom based DoS attack.

I like... No... I LOVE that idea~!

"Courtroom based DDoS"

Yeah. That would be nice. Just get enough people to sue to suck the f***ing life out of them.

;D

Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

tranglos

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Re: SOPA Shelved - ACTA is Worse
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2012, 02:00:57 PM »
I don't really have a problem with theoretical communism (Marxism). I actually think that it is a better system.

Be that as it may, it wasn't even communism that got whacked above, it was a seemingly insignificant entity known as Communist Party USA. I'm saying insignificant, because despite all the alleged subterfuge and infiltration, they don't seem to have influence the actual policy one bit.

bmikey

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Re: SOPA Shelved - ACTA is Worse
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2012, 09:55:57 PM »
Well, I would have figured that they will come back with something stronger with the SOPA/PIPA being put on hold. They are just not going down without a fight, and a good and strong one at that.

What they are probably going to do is give some leeway to those aspects that made people click and capitalize on those that aren't much recognized.  ACTA, one for the kill here.

IainB

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Re: SOPA Shelved - ACTA is Worse
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2012, 01:39:16 AM »
@tranglos: Sorry if I wrote confusingly.
But when a group of people band together as a corporation and do the same, we call them the most productive members of the society and bestow all kinds of accolades on them, and indeed let them effectively run our countries - yours and mine both. End digression.)
Yes - this is QED:
Spoiler
In the film The Corporation, they reviewed the personality disorder "psychopathy". (A psychopath is a person with chronic psychopathy, esp. leading to abnormally irresponsible and antisocial behaviour.)
They gave this checklist of criteria to identify the disorder:
    1. Callous unconcern for the feelings of others.
    2. Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships.
    3. Reckless disregard for the safety of others.
    4. Deceitfulness: repeated lying and conning others for profit/financial gain.
    5. Incapacity to experience guilt.
    6. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviours.

In the film, these criteria were shown to be met by many/most of the legal entities (legal persons) known as "corporations", thus demonstrating that society has legalised these special kinds of psychopaths to operate in society, where they can and do cause tremendous harm - e.g., including such things as economic dependency and control of communities, or a deadly (toxic) environmental footprint - sometimes both, as in the case of the US corporation Exide in their factory in Mexico.

These Frankenstinian monsters were created within the protective environment afforded by a mix of religio-political ideologies - e.g.,  including the US Constitution, Christianity, Democracy, Capitalism, and English/American Law.
I am not knocking or commenting on those ideologies per se.
In the case of the US, history indicates that they seem to be - so far - the only ideologies that humans have been able to use in concert to consistently create wealth, better living conditons and freedoms for the majority, as a matter of course.

And then you have a small party, whose ideology is to stop them from doing all that. Yet they are both cockroaches to you, how?
Or how you could say entities like the Communist Party are more "successful" than the big business - that's equally puzzling. How do you measure success to arrive at this outcome?
I am not knocking the Communist ideology per se, nor the Communist Party USA per se. I used the latter as an example of small cockroaches. They get everywhere - as can be seen from the details in the spoiler. Just doing what their religio-political ideology tells them to do. It seems that, wherever there is a disaffected minority, religion or activist organisation, there too (apparently) is your friendly neighbourhood Communist to assist you in whatever you are trying to do to change society. Because it's only by destroying the hated wealth-creating society that the Communist model can be put in place. So, help and make use of people with a common cause, or at least a partly common cause.

I said that the small cockroaches were:
Quote
...arguably more successful than the larger ones.
- because it is arguable - e.g., on the basis that they are smaller, likely to be more numerous and more ubiquitous.

The term "cockroaches" was coined by @Renegade. I picked it up and later used the analogy where I said:
Quote
Unfortunately, if you want to do something about cockroaches, then your only option seems to be to exterminate them.
Thus, whether  - for example - Capitalists or Communists or Scientologists, if they are freedom-destroying cockroaches, then you are going to have to exterminate them. But there the analogy fails, because they're not cockroaches are they? They are people.
Bugger. They are part of you - not an enemy that you can dehumanise and barbarically kill without compunction. This is the soft spot that makes us human/civilised. That means you can't legally kill them willy-nilly after all.
The only legal way to fight them is to build a defence using the same Civil tools that they are using to gnaw away at and destroy Freedom. The risk is that they might not have the same "soft spot" about you.

As Renegade said:
The attack on free speech has many fronts. There's a full out Von Clausewitz total war of Biblical proportion on free speech now.
They're not going to stop until they are stopped.
It's the religio-political ideology that you need to do something about, see? It's not the people using that ideology.
And they have arguably been planning/doing whatever systemic mischief they intend for quite some time, and are thus likely to be a lot better organised than their targets.

I would be interested to know just how you are likely to be able to "stop" them with certainty, and defend the Constitution, without breaching some of the prevailing American religio-political ideologies.
Don't forget how easily America permitted McCarthyism.
Somewhere down that logical path you could find civil war.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2012, 01:48:16 AM by IainB »

Renegade

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Re: SOPA Shelved - ACTA is Worse
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2012, 01:55:13 AM »
As Renegade said:
The attack on free speech has many fronts. There's a full out Von Clausewitz total war of Biblical proportion on free speech now.
They're not going to stop until they are stopped.
It's the religio-political ideology that you need to do something about, see? It's not the people using that ideology.
And they have arguably been planning/doing whatever systemic mischief they intend for quite some time, and are thus likely to be a lot better organised than their targets.

I would be interested to know just how you are likely to be able "stop" them without breaching some of the prevailing American religio-political ideologies. Somewhere down that logical path you could find civil war.

No disagreement there.

Quote from: John F. Kennedy
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.

Quote from: Thomas Jefferson
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.


Unless something happens very quickly, that's where it is going... or perhaps down that very dark path that none of us want to think about. Few sane people want to be a character in a real life 1984.


Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

tomos

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Re: SOPA Shelved - ACTA is Worse
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2012, 04:35:26 AM »
Quote from: Thomas Jefferson
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

just curious:
does he mean that (we) the patriots should fight the tyrants - or does he mean we gotta kill/bleed the patriots as well as the tyrants?
The latter seems quite apt in these "patriotic" days - but I suspect he meant the former. I know - he possibly had a cleaner version of patriotism in mind.
As someone who doesnt believe that that route brings anything worthwhile, I'd disagree with both anyway :p but as you say it could be where it's heading, more likely the "dark path" though I think :-\
Tom

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Re: SOPA Shelved - ACTA is Worse
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2012, 05:08:27 AM »
Quote from: Thomas Jefferson
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

just curious:
does he mean that (we) the patriots should fight the tyrants - or does he mean we gotta kill/bleed the patriots as well as the tyrants?
The latter seems quite apt in these "patriotic" days - but I suspect he meant the former. I know - he possibly had a cleaner version of patriotism in mind.
As someone who doesnt believe that that route brings anything worthwhile, I'd disagree with both anyway :p but as you say it could be where it's heading, more likely the "dark path" though I think :-\

He means that violent revolution is periodically inevitable, and there will be blood spilt on both sides.

Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

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Re: SOPA Shelved - ACTA is Worse
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2012, 09:11:51 AM »
PETITION TO STOP ACTA HERE:

http://www.avaaz.org...rnet_spread/?cfiUkcb

Please~!


(And thank you if you do/did!)
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

kyrathaba

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Re: SOPA Shelved - ACTA is Worse
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2012, 10:13:52 AM »
Signed it, and shared on FB.

tomos

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Re: SOPA Shelved - ACTA is Worse
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2012, 10:17:45 AM »
Signed it, and shared on FB.

likewise
Tom

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Re: SOPA Shelved - ACTA is Worse
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2012, 11:13:04 AM »
Signed.

40hz

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Re: SOPA Shelved - ACTA is Worse
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2012, 12:21:27 PM »
Done.

Also got my GF to do it - and follow kryathaba's idea to share it with her FB cronies.

Ath

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Re: SOPA Shelved - ACTA is Worse
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2012, 02:04:53 PM »
Signed.