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Author Topic: DC going offline to protest SOPA on Jan 18  (Read 21865 times)
Renegade
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« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2012, 04:17:12 AM »

I posted this in another thread, but it's just so darn relevant, that I can't help but post it here as well (please post replies in original thread):

********** START CROSS POST ***************
A friend recommended I check this:

http://maddox.xmission.com/

I would STRONGLY recommend everyone here read that. It's excellent. Here's an excerpt:

Quote
SOPA is the "Stop Online Piracy Act." It's a shitty piece of legislation put together by puppetmaster lobbyists and politician puppets who don't know IP addresses from their assholes. My problem with this huge online protest against SOPA, and the reason I rarely take part in such protests, is because it doesn't address any problems, only the symptom. The problem isn't this shitty bill, it's the people who sponsored it. So we protest this bill today, bang enough pots and pans to shame a few backers into not letting this bill pass, then what? Those same dipshits who wrote this legislation still have jobs. They're going to try again, and again, and again until some mutation of this legislation passes. They'll sneak it into an appropriation bill while nobody's looking during recess, because there's too much lobbyist money at stake for them not to. We defeat SOPA today, only to face it again tomorrow. It's like trying to stop a cold by blowing your nose. It's time we go after the virus.

BOOM~! HE NAILS IT~!




******** END CROSS POST ************


I think it's worth drawing attention to, but if possible, could replies to it be posted in the original thread here.


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TaoPhoenix
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« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2012, 06:05:06 AM »

New Member of the Mascot family!

SOPA-Cody!


* SOPA-Cody.jpg (2.35 KB, 64x85 - viewed 286 times.)
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TaoPhoenix
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« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2012, 06:12:07 AM »


Looks like a lot of flip-flopping there... I think that's a list of politicians that really shouldn't be re-elected. They're doing the same back-peddling as GoDaddy -- they're not sincere.

Even the snakes that co-sponsored it are flipping.

This is the second half of the "Fix the problem not the symptom" discussion. Physical protests seem to be passe - see what happened to Occupy. So this time the Web Collective Mind protested.

Now we should track where the individual provisions go to other places (or even rebuilt versions of the same bill.)

Next, this outrage needs to be cemented with pledges to vote out anyone who supported this bill.
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40hz
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« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2012, 06:17:23 AM »

And by the way it seems like the internet protests have had an effect: http://arstechnica.com/te...w-opponents-in-senate.ars

The write-up at ArsTechnica was interesting in that it's one of the few times I've seen a reporter 'named names' for a change.

Why we continue to report on US political parties as if they were single entities, rather than as collections of self-seeking and craven individuals (which they mostly are) never ceases to annoy me.

Unfortunately, the only thing I can conclude about the widespread flipping on the part of Republicans is that the Republican National Committee has a more savvy team of political strategists who have decided this topic isn't winnable at this point.

So what I think we're seeing here is another example of conservative realpolitik at work. Something they've demonstrated a distinct talent for. (Or did until the Tea Party came along and screwed it all up for them.  mrgreen)

SOPA and PIPA are not dead. They're just taking a break and resting up.

Unfortunately for us, next time SOPA and PIPA get reintroduced, they'll be 'attached' and buried deep in the middle of some other totally unrelated 5000-page bill.

This battle is far from over. The only difference is it will now become a covert war fought in the shadows and the back rooms of Congress and the Senate. And it has now become that much more difficult to stop the substance of these two bills because of that.

In the past, SOPA and PIPA were hung out where everybody could see and watch them. Next time it won't be anywhere near that easy.



Something to remember:

  • The people opposed to PIPA and SOPA are fighting for something they believe is right.
  • The people behind PIPA and SOPA (i.e. MPAA, RIAA, et al) think they are fighting for their livelihoods.

Care to place a wager on which group is more motivated and committed?  undecided



« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 06:42:36 AM by 40hz » Logged

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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2012, 09:16:13 AM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LEb_D2SD3k" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LEb_D2SD3k</a>

Says it all really - and in calm rational terms
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40hz
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« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2012, 09:58:51 AM »



Says it all really - and in calm rational terms


@Carol - thanks for sharing that. Clay is one of the best on media topics. And that was yet another of his great presentations.

However, I still think we need to starve Big Media out of existence to eliminate their threat once and for all. But maybe that's because I'm a stepchild of the counterculture so I have limited patience with overly genteel protest seeing how badly it's worked in many other contexts.

Besides, writing or calling your representatives isn't very effective in societies where there is no real representation of the general public. Not to say you shouldn't. (Every bit helps.) But I still don't think it will be anywhere near enough.

So I still say "boycott."

But that's just me.  smiley
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wraith808
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« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2012, 10:27:46 AM »

They'll sneak it into an appropriation bill while nobody's looking during recess, because there's too much lobbyist money at stake for them not to.

This is all too likely to happen.  And it won't be called SOPA, nor PIPA.  It will be called something benign and created not to call attention to what it really is.

...I hate the way the US Govt works sometimes...
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Stoic Joker
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« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2012, 11:24:26 AM »

However, I still think we need to starve Big Media out of existence to eliminate their threat once and for all. But maybe that's because I'm a stepchild of the counterculture so I have limited patience with overly genteel protest seeing how badly it's worked in many other contexts.

Besides, writing or calling your representatives isn't very effective in societies where there is no real representation of the general public. Not to say you shouldn't. (Every bit helps.) But I still don't think it will be anywhere near enough.

So I still say "boycott."

We need to get back to having a government that is afraid of its people, instead of this ass backward shit we got now. Boycotting is a good start but we really need to be sure they can be killed quickly enough to prevent them from striping our bones dry with more BS draconian legislation.
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Stoic Joker
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« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2012, 11:29:01 AM »

Just a quick note/caution... The copy & paste somewhere along the line ended up encoding a dash incorrectly as a different kind of dash, which broke the script.

Really? It worked fine for me as it was. I pasted the whole shebang into the header, ran a test with the (day before's date) 17th, and let it go. Site went down and then back up just as the code requested.

I suppose it is possible that the unicode editor I usually use (EmEdit) transparently fixed it for me. *Shrug*
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tomos
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« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2012, 12:33:41 PM »

This is all too likely to happen.  And it won't be called SOPA, nor PIPA.  It will be called something benign and created not to call attention to what it really is.

...I hate the way the US Govt works sometimes...

universal problem wraith...
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Tom
app103
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« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2012, 03:05:32 PM »

That would be like opposing a war by signing up to join the military. Or showing your disapproval of McDonald's by having everybody buy a Big Mac with fries and a shake. It just doesn't make sense to me.

No, it's not like that at all.

It's like blacking out your website to display your opposition to a war.

It's like blacking out your website to display your disapproval of McDonalds.

It's a form of civil disobedience, a way to make your point and be heard, a way to make sure every visitor to your website is made aware of the issue.

Why do workers picket in front of a business when they go on strike? Isn't the act of not working good enough to make their point? Why carry signs and chant?

What tools does the internet offer as the most powerful way that a webmaster, blogger, or online community can use to protest and make others aware of their position on an issue? What is the equivalent to a picket line in the online world? What has the maximum impact, can't be overlooked like a banner across the top, can't be missed like a forum post, can't be deleted like an email, can't be ignored?

Yesterday, it was black picket signs that blocked visitors from accessing the content.

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40hz
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« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2012, 03:27:57 PM »

That would be like opposing a war by signing up to join the military. Or showing your disapproval of McDonald's by having everybody buy a Big Mac with fries and a shake. It just doesn't make sense to me.

No, it's not like that at all.


@Deo -Try thinking of it as an illustration presented to people who lack the ability to imagine what the internet might be like if something like SOPA/PIPA became the law - first in the USA - and then in the rest of the world as US politicians endeavored, through various strong arm tactics, to impose their self-righteous (and fully paid-for) attitudes and beliefs on the rest of the world.
 smiley

Try watching the Clay Shirky TEDTalk video Carol posted above if you haven't already. And maybe even visit his blog here.

I think a little watching, reading, and reflection will at least clarify what some of us are worried and talking about - even if you still don't agree with us afterwards. It's not a problem if you don't since most of us don't agree 100% with each other on this topic anyway.
 Grin


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wraith808
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« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2012, 04:11:10 PM »

Yesterday, it was black picket signs that blocked visitors from accessing the content.

And the Feds have spoken their word...

At least *I* don't think it was coincidence.
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Deozaan
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« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2012, 07:47:52 PM »

That would be like opposing a war by signing up to join the military. Or showing your disapproval of McDonald's by having everybody buy a Big Mac with fries and a shake. It just doesn't make sense to me.

No, it's not like that at all.

[snip]

It's a form of civil disobedience, a way to make your point and be heard, a way to make sure every visitor to your website is made aware of the issue.

Why do workers picket in front of a business when they go on strike? Isn't the act of not working good enough to make their point? Why carry signs and chant?

At the time I expressed my disapproval, I thought sites were essentially going to 404 (or 503) rather than post information about SOPA/PIPA. So it didn't seem a useful form of protest to me. It would have been, to use your example, like the workers just not showing up to work. Or actually, it would have been more like workers showing up and working for free to protest potential future pay reductions.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 07:49:21 AM by Deozaan » Logged

TaoPhoenix
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« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2012, 03:13:07 AM »


Deozaan that would have been a clever image for a protest to mimic, but a true 404/etc in protest would have been "too thin of a message" and even savvy users wouldn't know it's not just one more site that didn't keep their site up.
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Deozaan
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« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2012, 07:48:38 AM »

Deozaan that would have been a clever image for a protest to mimic, but a true 404/etc in protest would have been "too thin of a message" and even savvy users wouldn't know it's not just one more site that didn't keep their site up.

Some sites actually did return HTTP Error 503, which as I understand is something Google suggested (so that page ranking in search results wouldn't be affected like they would by Error 404, or something). The only one I know of specifically that did this is http://imgur.com/.

To anyone who tried to visit imgur.com, all they saw was an actual HTTP Error 503 and no information about SOPA/PIPA. If you didn't know it was SOPA Blackout Day, you might have thought imgur was just having problems that day.

That's exactly the "form of protest"  I disagreed with and thought was completely ineffective and pointless.

That said, if I'm being totally honest, I also wasn't completely impressed with the blackouts that did involve (links to) information about SOPA/PIPA.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 08:05:18 AM by Deozaan » Logged

40hz
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« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2012, 08:04:18 AM »

@Deo -  am I correct in guessing you're in the 16-29-year old population bracket?
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Deozaan
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« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2012, 08:05:56 AM »

@Deo -  am I correct in guessing you're in the 16-29-year old population bracket?

No need to guess. It's in my profile. Wink
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40hz
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« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2012, 09:00:19 AM »

@Deo -  am I correct in guessing you're in the 16-29-year old population bracket?

No need to guess. It's in my profile. Wink

No fun if I did that. Besides, I feel it's more polite to ask rather than check up on someone.

I was just curious. Because your demographic seems to be somewhat dismissive of protest actions in general. (I've been running my own little social mores research as a hobby project so that's why I was curious.)
 smiley

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Renegade
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« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2012, 09:19:01 AM »

Protests are absolutely fundamentally amazingly good. tongue

Ummm... That didn't quite sound right, but I think people will get the gist. Wink

Here's the thing... If you want to affect change, you have 3 basic options (in order):

1) The soap box
2) The ballot box
3) The cartridge box

We're in the #1 and #2 phase right now (in many places). Hopefully they will work and #3 won't be necessary (although #3 has been used in some places recently, e.g. Libya).

Protests fit into #1.



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wraith808
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« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2012, 10:26:25 AM »

^ Nice post, Renegade +1
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40hz
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« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2012, 10:30:53 AM »

@Ren - yeah. That about nails it.  Thmbsup


I think you need to add coffin box after cartridge box to cover the whole life cycle however. Let's not forget the occasionally successful martyrs to a cause.   Wink
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Renegade
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« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2012, 10:33:33 AM »

^ Nice post, Renegade +1

Thank you! smiley

I had to go and make a graphic for it:

http://www.facebook.com/p...2228.902920292&type=1




@Ren - yeah. That about nails it.  Thmbsup


I think you need to add coffin box after cartridge box to cover the whole life cycle however.  Wink

Hahahaha~! Very true! I'd already finished the graphic when I got back here though. Sad I think 3 works better though. (Pine box -- yeah -- that works!)



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Deozaan
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« Reply #48 on: January 20, 2012, 11:16:20 AM »

I don't know if I'm being misunderstood or if I'm the one misunderstanding, but I feel I need to clarify that I'm not saying that protests in general are bad or useless. What I am trying to say is this:

In the specific case of using HTTP Error 404/503 to protest SOPA/PIPA, I disagree with the method of protest because I think it is not an effective form of protest.

In the case of many of the big-name "blackouts" from sites like Wikipedia, Google, or Reddit, I was not impressed with the follow-through used. Google turned their logo black. Wikipedia's blackout was only for the English site and easily overridden with (or due to lack of) javascript. Reddit only did it for half of the day.

IMO those are examples of half-hearted protests. If you're going to protest something you should first come up with an effective form of protest and then commit to follow through with the protest.
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Renegade
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« Reply #49 on: January 20, 2012, 11:40:59 AM »

This is fantastic:

Graphic:
http://addictinginfo.org/...2/01/SOPAinfographic1.jpg

Source:
http://www.addictinginfo....always-wrong-infographic/

@Deozaan - I didn't mean to poke at you (never crossed my mind to be honest). I've been trying to get that same point across a few times in different places in different ways. Just repeating myself ad nauseum. smiley



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