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Last post Author Topic: Lost My Faith - Need New Religion - Need LAMP Help...  (Read 7113 times)

Renegade

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Lost My Faith - Need New Religion - Need LAMP Help...
« on: January 08, 2012, 11:42:24 PM »
Everyone that knows me knows that I've been pro Microsoft and hailed Bill Gates as a hero for his philanthropy.

I take it all back. I was wrong.

My faith has been utterly shattered.

I've posted a little bit about how I've seen that Bill Gates is firmly a part of the dark side here:

http://cynic.me/2012...tment-in-bill-gates/

I am locked into Microsoft in many ways, and know that I can't escape easily.

So, I'm looking for help.

I run Windows Server for www, ftp, and email.

I'm running DotNetNuke as the CMS for most sites that I have. I love DNN, but at this point, I can't see sticking with it simply because I don't want to deal with any headaches in the future when trying to run it on a LAMP stack.

I'd like to move onto a LAMP stack ASAP. This will take me quite some time as I need to move a lot of things from one server to another first so that I can cut costs before I go out and get another server. Sigh...

I'm currently thinking that I should simply flee as far from the proprietary world as possible. I'm thinking that the closer to pure GPL I can get, the better. However, I'm waffling on the Apache/Mozilla/GPL/BSD and similar "freedom" licenses as well.

I still need to move my domains away from GoDaddy as well. At the moment, I'm thinking that I should go with Hover.com. I have 58 domains, and many are live sites, so I really don't want to jump the gun and make a mess of things.

However, I don't really think it will make much of a difference if my domains are held by a Canadian vs. US company, as Canada seems to be going down the same dark path...

Anyways, here's what I need:

  • New domain registrar
  • New server OS
  • New CMS
  • New email server or hosted email
  • New host
  • New dunno... did I forget something?

My primary requirement is very simple: things need to be simple and easy to use. I'm not looking to recompile an OS or anything. I want to get things transferred and up and running ASAP.

I'm thinking that I should probably go for a VPS instead of a dedicated server. I'm quite frankly a bit sick of paying so much, and would like to reduce costs. However, I still want flexibility, freedom, and reliability. I'm willing to pay for it. I'm not looking for the cheapest solution out there.

So far my initial thoughts are:

  • Domain registrar: Hover.com or Namecheap
  • Server OS: Linux - Suse? CentOS? Not sure... Solaris or BSD? seems like it will be difficult, which I want to avoid. BSD?
  • CMS: Drupal and WordPress (Joomla is messy)
  • Email: Gmail or postfix? Not sure... Using hMailserver now
  • Host: VPS - no idea... With Softlayer at the moment...

Anyone care to weigh in with some recommendations on systems that will maximize my freedom?

Thanks in advance!


NOTE: I am already doing research on things. I'm not being lazy. I'm asking because I value people's opinions here. There are a lot of very smart people here at DC, with a truckload of experience, and that I TRUST. Big point there. Anonymous reviews and all that stuff out there... Not so keen on that when I don't know the people.




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Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Eóin

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Re: Lost My Faith - Need New Religion - Need LAMP Help...
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2012, 06:28:07 AM »
Disappointing, I'd want to hear more details before jumping to conclusions. The purchase of shares seems to be a fact rather than rumor so there's no spin on that.

Eóin

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Re: Lost My Faith - Need New Religion - Need LAMP Help...
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2012, 06:31:53 AM »
Hmmmm

“The world today has 6.8 billion people… that’s headed up to about 9 billion. Now, if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower that by perhaps 10 or 15 percent.”
Spoken like a true eugenicist!  He wants to kill 15% of the global population through vaccines.  His Foundation has already been responsible for forced vaccinations at gunpoint, so I suppose this isn’t any new surprise.

Well that source clearly has zero credibility or reason. Not a good start for the anti-bill side :-\

[edit]Also oops didn't realise this thread was more for the technical advice so I'll stop dragging it OT? Sorry :-[
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 06:37:07 AM by Eóin »

Stoic Joker

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Re: Lost My Faith - Need New Religion - Need LAMP Help...
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2012, 06:45:23 AM »
The question I would ask, is what are BG's intentions for the purchase? It could be construed as an endorsement of their actions, true ... However, it could also be an attempt at gaining some manner of steerage/control of what they're doing in the hopes of tempering it with a less homicidal form of reason.

mahesh2k

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Re: Lost My Faith - Need New Religion - Need LAMP Help...
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2012, 07:58:29 AM »
I'll not get into the MS evil part but let's discuss about LAMP migration and other stuff.

Domain registrar :- Namecheap.com and Gandi.net, gossimer or any other enom based registrar is okay. Just double check if you're thinking about any other registrar because most of them are godaddy re-sellers. Also note that UK or eu based registrars are more expensive and costs 2$ extra for same domain price+ additional for features which you get free from most of the US based registrars, so avoid EU registrars if you have large number of domains in queue. I don't think moving small biz and commercial domains to non-us host is going to make sense, I mean SOPA is against freedom of speech, not commercial content or small biz. So upto you to decide..

Server OS : There is a lot of documentation available for CentOS and UBuntu, Suse. I've invested more time with centos and suse.Ubuntu is going to be next if any client comes with such request. Start by installing VM with one of these distros in it. Break things in VM before doing anything on live site.

CMS: Wordpress is fine and gets work done quickly compared to drupal and joomla, I found these two sucking my time for even simple things. You can use drupal or joomla if there are complex apps but other than that for simple blogs, static sites and form based sites wordpress is enough.

EMail: I think google apps for domain is fine and you get enough stuff that you need for typical mailing tasks.If you have too many domains to deploy then better to use external service like google apps because using your server is going to be waste time during maintenance and server transfer. In case of google apps all you have to do is change MX records in new VPS or server to fetch mails.

Host: I find it odd to suggest anything against softlayer because they're popular and known for their service. It's just that there are some glitches with them these days. I know rackspace(and their VPS division slicehost), knowhost are some good VPS hosts.

My 2 cents.



Renegade

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Re: Lost My Faith - Need New Religion - Need LAMP Help...
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2012, 08:15:45 AM »
Hmmmm

“The world today has 6.8 billion people… that’s headed up to about 9 billion. Now, if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower that by perhaps 10 or 15 percent.”
Spoken like a true eugenicist!  He wants to kill 15% of the global population through vaccines.  His Foundation has already been responsible for forced vaccinations at gunpoint, so I suppose this isn’t any new surprise.

Well that source clearly has zero credibility or reason. Not a good start for the anti-bill side :-\

[edit]Also oops didn't realise this thread was more for the technical advice so I'll stop dragging it OT? Sorry :-[


OT Diversion/Indulgence:

Unfortunately, that site is pretty accurate. It really only sounds utterly insane until you actually do the due diligence and read up on the plethora of references. THEN, and only then will things start to make sense.

I'd seen that Ted.com video before, and read that stuff before... I put it aside and was willing to "ignore" it because "Bill's a good guy and a philanthropist". We all know that I've been very pro Microsoft and pro Bill Gates. However, In the past few weeks I've also been doing some research on eugenics (not something that I particularly want to get into here or anywhere -- it's repulsive) and, well, let's just leave that alone entirely.

I've probably done too much research on Monsanto as well. They are utter evil. I've posted what I think their products are here:

http://cynic.me/2012...-them-what-they-are/

When you search and type in "monsanto", you will get as one of the recommended search terms, "monsanto evil". You can follow through and do some due diligence on things, and you will scream inside. Well, unless you don't really actually do any reading or any of that. It's simply not possible to put them under a microscope and not see the Devil laughing at you.

Anyways... Yeah... Lost faith entirely.


The question I would ask, is what are BG's intentions for the purchase? It could be construed as an endorsement of their actions, true ... However, it could also be an attempt at gaining some manner of steerage/control of what they're doing in the hopes of tempering it with a less homicidal form of reason.


Well, if he were going to actually do any good there, he's buy the company and burn it to the ground. There are no "good" uses for biological weapons.


Anyways... Looking for a new platform. Nice and easy to use. One that has no bio-weapons in it. :P


I'm so utterly disgusted that I am willing to settle for less (within reason -- I need to be able to manage things) if that comes with freedom, e.g. GNU GPL.

So, anything along those lines -- please advise. I've pretty much always run Windows servers, and the last time I ran a Linux box was forever and a day ago, so I'm totally out of touch with the latest and greatest.




I'll not get into the MS evil part but let's discuss about LAMP migration and other stuff.

Domain registrar :- Namecheap.com and Gandi.net, gossimer or any other enom based registrar is okay. Just double check if you're thinking about any other registrar because most of them are godaddy re-sellers. Also note that UK or eu based registrars are more expensive and costs 2$ extra for same domain price+ additional for features which you get free from most of the US based registrars, so avoid EU registrars if you have large number of domains in queue. I don't think moving small biz and commercial domains to non-us host is going to make sense, I mean SOPA is against freedom of speech, not commercial content or small biz. So upto you to decide..


I've heard those 2 echoed elsewhere multiple times. I think I'll look into them. The thing about Hover.com was that they have a system to help automate moving domains there, which means less work for me. :)


Server OS : There is a lot of documentation available for CentOS and UBuntu, Suse. I've invested more time with centos and suse.Ubuntu is going to be next if any client comes with such request. Start by installing VM with one of these distros in it. Break things in VM before doing anything on live site.


I always think of Ubuntu as a desktop OS... I suppose I should look at that as well. (I just don't want to have to drop to the command line all the time for everything... yeah... I'm a tad lazy there.


CMS: Wordpress is fine and gets work done quickly compared to drupal and joomla, I found these two sucking my time for even simple things. You can use drupal or joomla if there are complex apps but other than that for simple blogs, static sites and form based sites wordpress is enough.


Thanks. I think I might migrate some sites to Wordpress. I've seen some icky, dirty stuff in it that drove me nuts, but it seems to work ok and get things done well enough for static sites and blogs.

I'm really quite concerned about the CMS. They're a nightmare if you get them wrong. They're a dream if you get them right. So, this will be my PRIMARY concern as I'll be spending most of my time with the CMS.

Like for an email server, you set it up, do a tiny bit of maintenance, and it's done. Same for the OS. Most of that stuff is automated. The CMS? You need to get your hands dirty no matter what. I just want to be productive.


EMail: I think google apps for domain is fine and you get enough stuff that you need for typical mailing tasks.If you have too many domains to deploy then better to use external service like google apps because using your server is going to be waste time during maintenance and server transfer. In case of google apps all you have to do is change MX records in new VPS or server to fetch mails.


I'm HEAVILY leaning towards Google apps here. I can always add in an SPF record for my own IP addresses for mail...


Host: I find it odd to suggest anything against softlayer because they're popular and known for their service. It's just that there are some glitches with them these days. I know rackspace(and their VPS division slicehost), knowhost are some good VPS hosts.


Hahahah~! Yeah... Hard to beat Rackspace. It's also hard not to beat their prices~! ;D

I've had nothing but good fortune with Softlayer, so I'm a bit reluctant to leave there.

I've not heard of Knowhost. I'll look into them.


My 2 cents.


Thank you for those 2 cents~! :D I figure if I can get a dime or two, I'll be perfectly set. ;D :P




Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

40hz

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Re: Lost My Faith - Need New Religion - Need LAMP Help...
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2012, 08:43:13 AM »
Just to add something else to think about: this article on Nginx.  8)

Renegade

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Re: Lost My Faith - Need New Religion - Need LAMP Help...
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2012, 10:06:17 AM »
Just to add something else to think about: this article on Nginx.  8)

I was reading on Nginx earlier today. My thoughts were either Nginx or Apache, but I really don't know enough about running different CMSes on top of them to make an intelligent decision.

I'm leaning towards Drupal... but really have no clue -- need to do a lot more reading still. :(


Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

40hz

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Re: Lost My Faith - Need New Religion - Need LAMP Help...
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2012, 10:42:37 AM »

I'm leaning towards Drupal... but really have no clue -- need to do a lot more reading still. :(


Might want to talk to Mouser about that when you get a chance. He had a ... um ...bit to say about Drupal.

Also check out this and this DC forum thread.

Note: the first link's discussion is pretty old, but it's been updated over time. Last posts to it were in April 2011.

Luck! :Thmbsup:

Also please keep us updated on what you discover/decide/do?

I've got a project coming up later this year where I'll need to spec a CMS. So any feedback from anyone who is currently doing that sort of thing would be invaluable to me. I'm not so proud I won't let somebody else take up point position - and possibly take a bullet as the result. (They call that "doing field research" BTW.  ;D )

OvertheTop.jpg

 8)
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 10:58:33 AM by 40hz »

superboyac

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Re: Lost My Faith - Need New Religion - Need LAMP Help...
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2012, 11:22:50 AM »
Hmm...yeah, that is disappointing.  I, too, like to give Gates the benefit of the doubt most of the time because his humanitarian efforts, by quantity and $$ alone, is probably the greatest in the history of the world.

But it's hard to defend anything Monsanto related.  Hopefully, he can use his influence to prevent them from some of their bullying and unethical practices.  But you never know anymore.  I'm cynical enough to sour on even Gates at this point.

Stoic Joker

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Re: Lost My Faith - Need New Religion - Need LAMP Help...
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2012, 11:25:49 AM »
I'm using WordPress on two of the company sites. I managed to hack together a theme for one of the sites myself, but the main site we had done professionally. Both are quite stable ... But their graphics are better. :)

I'm planning to do another WP site for a freelance project ... So I'll go with the pro WordPress group.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(I was planning to be quiet, because I didn't really want to get into this. But...)

Google's mail hosting I wouldn't touch with a 4,000 foot pole. I've got one client that was/is trying to use it. An frankly, from an administrative stand point it's total shit. Basic idiot simple operations like delete/create a mailbox are over complicated to a level that best I can tell takes years to fix.

I had one user with what appeared to be a corrupt mailbox. I could send mail to any account but theirs. Theirs came back as nonexistant. Okay... Simple, delete and recreate the mailbox (I've done it on Exchange several times, it takes 2 seconds). There's nothing to backup because the box is (only a week old) empty. Ha! Wrong. You can't do that ... Oh sure you can delete the box ... But you can't recreate it for 5 days (per G-help). Except 5 days later I still couldn't recreate it. 10 days? No. 30 days? No. 5 months later it still ain't happening. More help digging reveals that after a box has been created and deleted, you can never create another box with that name ever again. You have to create some manner of alias group, chain it to another box, and add it to that at midnight of the 3rd Tuesday of the Martian solar year while waving a chicken above your head in the moonlight naked. Or some other convoluted horse shit that I got tired of reading because it was way to many stepe for a simple operation that shouldn't have needed to be done on a week old mailbox that was part of a mail domain that only had 6 users. Two of which still don't work over a year later.

Google can bite me.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 11:52:04 AM by Stoic Joker »

mahesh2k

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Re: Lost My Faith - Need New Religion - Need LAMP Help...
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2012, 12:07:49 PM »
@SJ, you're talking about google app mail hosting? or postini mail hosting? I'm asking that because in case of google apps for domain, mailbox is same like gmail. There is no change of features in case of Gapps. Everything works perfectly just like an average gmail account. I don't know how come these problems exist for g apps hosting.

mouser

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Re: Lost My Faith - Need New Religion - Need LAMP Help...
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2012, 12:30:35 PM »
I'm writing my own user/content management system (yumps) that will be open source.

Now who can get me $30,000 in funding for it?  :-*

Stoic Joker

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Re: Lost My Faith - Need New Religion - Need LAMP Help...
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2012, 12:56:02 PM »
@SJ, you're talking about google app mail hosting? or postini mail hosting? I'm asking that because in case of google apps for domain, mailbox is same like gmail. There is no change of features in case of Gapps. Everything works perfectly just like an average gmail account. I don't know how come these problems exist for g apps hosting.

Hm... Not sure which one is which. Google is hosting the mail domain (ClientsDomainName.com) for the client in question (so all MX records point to Gworld). My fight is with the administrative (lack of) control panel. Client is using Outlook to send/receive mail, so nobody uses or cares about the webmail UI.

Is that what you were after...or did I miss the question? (today's not going well)

mahesh2k

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Re: Lost My Faith - Need New Religion - Need LAMP Help...
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2012, 12:59:04 PM »
Yes, that's right, I'm talking about webmail. I agree with lack of features in dashboard.

steeladept

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Re: Lost My Faith - Need New Religion - Need LAMP Help...
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2012, 05:43:47 PM »
Not that I can speak from experience per se, but I do suggest the VPS option if you don't use your own server(s) to their fullest.  It can be significantly cheaper than owning your own server, and is often backed up by enterprise features you couldn't afford with your own server.  Things like automated backup, failover, clustering (potentially), etc.  Yes, most charge extra for those features, but not a lot compared to the costs and hassles of doing it yourself.  Specific companies, however, I cannot recommend due to lack of experience with any of them.

As for the email server, I have heard a lot of good things from Open-Exchange.  Don't know anything about it from an admin standpoint other than that hearsay, but I can say it is functional enough from the client end (My ISP uses it).  It isn't great, but I don't know many/any that are anywhere near Exchange in features/compatibility/stability.  Two of the three, yes, but not all three.

Server OS?  I am partial to Debian, but that is only because I really like Mint Linux and the LMDE release.  Yes, this is designed as a desktop edition, but keeping the desktop and the Server the same base OS does make some things marginally easier.  Otherwise I have been told by many that SUSE is by far the easiest for most people to learn coming from Windows Servers.  CentOS is also quite popular and I use it at work everyday (as a user, not an admin) - it is also quite functional.  The one thing I learned with Linux is don't worry too much about the flavor, just choose a popular one and dive in.  You can figure it out and learn as you go.  By and large, the changes are in the shell and not the OS itself anyway, which makes them relatively easy to rip and replace as needed.

Lastly CMS.  Can't say.  My only suggestion here is WordPress is the biggest general purpose CMS deployed (measured by number of deployments).  There has to be a reason for that...I will leave it to your own research and conclusions as to why, but that is why I would start there.

vlastimil

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Re: Lost My Faith - Need New Religion - Need LAMP Help...
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2012, 06:15:27 PM »
I have been using VPS with CentOS and LAMP for the last year and had no problems with that setup. Some configuration was needed in the beginning to get the latest PHP and some additional packages, but I managed to do that and I am not a Linux guy, so it is that difficult.

I am also using google to handle email for the domain. All I needed were a few mailboxes that just archive and forward emails. For this task, google mail works OK.

Regarding the open source CMSs, I am not a big fan of those. I played with wordpress and drupal, but they did not fulfill my expectations. My wordpress blog got hacked after not updating it for a while (who wants to update things all the time?). My wordpress blog and my drupal site are almost invisible and they still get tons of automated spam. Also, because of the complexity of wordpress and drupal, I do not have the feeling I am in control. The systems are too complex and too much time is needed to learn to customize them and to eventually do some plug-ins. Still, if you do not want to make a custom CMS, wordpress is probably the way to go, but be prepared for the spam.

f0dder

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Re: Lost My Faith - Need New Religion - Need LAMP Help...
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2012, 06:46:22 PM »
Hmmmm

“The world today has 6.8 billion people… that’s headed up to about 9 billion. Now, if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower that by perhaps 10 or 15 percent.”
Spoken like a true eugenicist!  He wants to kill 15% of the global population through vaccines.  His Foundation has already been responsible for forced vaccinations at gunpoint, so I suppose this isn’t any new surprise.

Well that source clearly has zero credibility or reason. Not a good start for the anti-bill side :-\
I agree entirely.

The rethorics used by that site gives it zero credibility in my eyes. They don't list decent sources, and spin a lot of crap on hear-say... there might be valid points hidden there, but it drowns in the tinfoil hat insanity. I have no doubts that monsanto are pure evil, it's easy reaching that conclusion by seeing how they act as a corporation. But equating biotech with "bio terrorism"? Come on, I expected you to be a bit more intelligent than falling for that.

There's plenty of reasons to be wary of biotech, but some of the sites you link seem like fanatical nutters. Makes me sick.
- carpe noctem

wraith808

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Re: Lost My Faith - Need New Religion - Need LAMP Help...
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2012, 07:53:20 PM »
  • New host

Where are you hosting now?  Are they a windows only shop?  And how fast are you looking at moving?

I ask because I host a windows and a centos server on liquidweb.com.  They're good, very helpful, and the cool thing about it is that I'm not locked into either/or.

Renegade

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Re: Lost My Faith - Need New Religion - Need LAMP Help...
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2012, 12:34:32 AM »
Not that I can speak from experience per se, but I do suggest the VPS option if you don't use your own server(s) to their fullest.  It can be significantly cheaper than owning your own server, and is often backed up by enterprise features you couldn't afford with your own server.  Things like automated backup, failover, clustering (potentially), etc.  Yes, most charge extra for those features, but not a lot compared to the costs and hassles of doing it yourself.  Specific companies, however, I cannot recommend due to lack of experience with any of them.

As for the email server, I have heard a lot of good things from Open-Exchange.  Don't know anything about it from an admin standpoint other than that hearsay, but I can say it is functional enough from the client end (My ISP uses it).  It isn't great, but I don't know many/any that are anywhere near Exchange in features/compatibility/stability.  Two of the three, yes, but not all three.

Server OS?  I am partial to Debian, but that is only because I really like Mint Linux and the LMDE release.  Yes, this is designed as a desktop edition, but keeping the desktop and the Server the same base OS does make some things marginally easier.  Otherwise I have been told by many that SUSE is by far the easiest for most people to learn coming from Windows Servers.  CentOS is also quite popular and I use it at work everyday (as a user, not an admin) - it is also quite functional.  The one thing I learned with Linux is don't worry too much about the flavor, just choose a popular one and dive in.  You can figure it out and learn as you go.  By and large, the changes are in the shell and not the OS itself anyway, which makes them relatively easy to rip and replace as needed.

Lastly CMS.  Can't say.  My only suggestion here is WordPress is the biggest general purpose CMS deployed (measured by number of deployments).  There has to be a reason for that...I will leave it to your own research and conclusions as to why, but that is why I would start there.

Hmmm... open-xchange doesn't have any prices listed when I click the BUY link. Must be out of my price range then. :D

I've heard that about Linux - just do it. Interesting what you mention about SuSe. I'm somewhat drawn to it as they have Mono with it, which would make my life easier as I know C# extremely well, and that would make life a lot easier for some things.




I have been using VPS with CentOS and LAMP for the last year and had no problems with that setup. Some configuration was needed in the beginning to get the latest PHP and some additional packages, but I managed to do that and I am not a Linux guy, so it is that difficult.

I am also using google to handle email for the domain. All I needed were a few mailboxes that just archive and forward emails. For this task, google mail works OK.

Regarding the open source CMSs, I am not a big fan of those. I played with wordpress and drupal, but they did not fulfill my expectations. My wordpress blog got hacked after not updating it for a while (who wants to update things all the time?). My wordpress blog and my drupal site are almost invisible and they still get tons of automated spam. Also, because of the complexity of wordpress and drupal, I do not have the feeling I am in control. The systems are too complex and too much time is needed to learn to customize them and to eventually do some plug-ins. Still, if you do not want to make a custom CMS, wordpress is probably the way to go, but be prepared for the spam.


I absolutely do not want a custom CMS. I want something out of the box that is flexible and well known. That way, I can perhaps just hire someone at some point to take care of things if I need. Custom? Nope. The learning curve is simply too expensive.



Hmmmm

“The world today has 6.8 billion people… that’s headed up to about 9 billion. Now, if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower that by perhaps 10 or 15 percent.”
Spoken like a true eugenicist!  He wants to kill 15% of the global population through vaccines.  His Foundation has already been responsible for forced vaccinations at gunpoint, so I suppose this isn’t any new surprise.

Well that source clearly has zero credibility or reason. Not a good start for the anti-bill side :-\
I agree entirely.

The rethorics used by that site gives it zero credibility in my eyes. They don't list decent sources, and spin a lot of crap on hear-say... there might be valid points hidden there, but it drowns in the tinfoil hat insanity. I have no doubts that monsanto are pure evil, it's easy reaching that conclusion by seeing how they act as a corporation. But equating biotech with "bio terrorism"? Come on, I expected you to be a bit more intelligent than falling for that.

There's plenty of reasons to be wary of biotech, but some of the sites you link seem like fanatical nutters. Makes me sick.



Well, I'd just say that I'm willing to bet that if you put in the time to do the background due diligence checks, then it wouldn't sound like tinfoil hat insanity. But yeah... If you haven't checked into things, it comes off quite nutty.

It's important to check facts because pretty much every source out there tends to freak out a bit and exaggerate. e.g. Fox News recently reported some flat out lies about Jesse Ventura. They never did any fact checking, which is pretty irresponsible journalism for a major network (or very good propaganda -- depends on how you want to view it). (See in the spoiler for another example.)

More off-topic, or at least off the tech topic
Regarding killing 10~15%, well, that's a misrepresentation -- which is why I say do the due diligence -- and what Gate is actually saying is that he wants to reduce the growth of human population. You can view the video on Ted.com. So, that's an exaggeration. Albeit, less of a sin than the complete lies you might get on Fox, but still a sin.

As for equating bio-tech with bio-terrorism - it is. Rats and other test animals that are fed those bio-weapons go sterile in 3 generations. But don't take my word for it. Go out, check the facts from different sources, do the due diligence in verifying as much as you can.

Perhaps you're feeling sick because of GMOs? ;D :P (Sorry -- couldn't resist that one -- it was way too open~! :D )

I totally understand why you'd feel that way. I used to think the same. I thought the whole organic food thing and all that stuff was just marketing drivel and stoned hippies blabbering on about Gaia and whatever.

I just got interested in the topic, and started looking into it more and more. After checking as much as I could and verifying as much as I could, I was unable to escape from the conclusion that GMOs are biological weapons. They're simply that bad.

Remember... These things are specifically and intentionally designed to produce toxins/poisons. That's not spin. That's what you'll get from looking at the company's literature. From there on in, at every turn, it only gets worse.

I don't expect you to believe me. I can only hope that you'd look into it for yourself. I'm willing to bet that at some point you'd likely reach much the same or similar conclusions as I have.


  • New host

Where are you hosting now?  Are they a windows only shop?  And how fast are you looking at moving?

I ask because I host a windows and a centos server on liquidweb.com.  They're good, very helpful, and the cool thing about it is that I'm not locked into either/or.


I'm at Softlayer. They do dedicated servers, so... Not sure... I have to move to get a VPS.

At the moment, I'm working on moving everything on one server to another just to consolidate them. That way I can drop the old server, and save on those costs. Then get a VPS (or another server) and move everything from the other server there.




Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

wraith808

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Re: Lost My Faith - Need New Religion - Need LAMP Help...
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2012, 10:43:01 AM »
I'm at Softlayer. They do dedicated servers, so... Not sure... I have to move to get a VPS.

At the moment, I'm working on moving everything on one server to another just to consolidate them. That way I can drop the old server, and save on those costs. Then get a VPS (or another server) and move everything from the other server there.

At liquidweb, they have both.  And they have what's called smartservers, which is what I'm using for one right now (some places have the same thing under a different name).  But what it does is let you apportion servers whenever you want, and they charge you a rate per day- it comes out to the same thing that I had for a month in the end, so they're just pro-rating the amount.  The advantage from what I was told was that unlike the regular VPS they used to use, this guarantees the processor time and RAM.  I'm really happy with them.

http://www.liquidweb...rtServers/index.html

As for the other, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for now.  The purchases weren't hidden, which I'm sure if it were as diabolical as some think, it would have been (and could have easily been).

I did have to add one question...

Spoiler
Quote
These things are specifically and intentionally designed to produce toxins/poisons.

Source?  I didn't see that in any of the (admittedly shallow) research I did into it after this thread.  I saw that the main opposition amongst the non-gaia types is the lack of testing by outside parties, but nothing that said that they were to produce toxins/poisons, but rather to introduce characteristics that were not a part of the organism by the modification, so I'm curious.

Eóin

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Re: Lost My Faith - Need New Religion - Need LAMP Help...
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2012, 06:14:07 PM »
Spoiler
+1 for wraiths question.

Also since when is wishing to not see the already chronic overpopulation problem in many 3rd world countries from getting worse a sin?

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Re: Lost My Faith - Need New Religion - Need LAMP Help...
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2012, 10:23:49 PM »
I'm at Softlayer. They do dedicated servers, so... Not sure... I have to move to get a VPS.

At the moment, I'm working on moving everything on one server to another just to consolidate them. That way I can drop the old server, and save on those costs. Then get a VPS (or another server) and move everything from the other server there.

At liquidweb, they have both.  And they have what's called smartservers, which is what I'm using for one right now (some places have the same thing under a different name).  But what it does is let you apportion servers whenever you want, and they charge you a rate per day- it comes out to the same thing that I had for a month in the end, so they're just pro-rating the amount.  The advantage from what I was told was that unlike the regular VPS they used to use, this guarantees the processor time and RAM.  I'm really happy with them.

http://www.liquidweb...rtServers/index.html

As for the other, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for now.  The purchases weren't hidden, which I'm sure if it were as diabolical as some think, it would have been (and could have easily been).

I did have to add one question...



Thanks for the link there. I'll look into it.


Question on built in toxins

I've seen the answer in several sources, but to be honest, I've been going through so many materials so quickly for so long, that I totally forget where the references are now.

However, here's a quick simple reference:

www . dowagro.com/herculex/about/heruclexxtra/ < Please check that site - I don't want to give it any link juice.

On there, you'll read:

"You get high-yielding genetics and the only in-plant insect protection against:"

Translating that into reality... "in-plant insect protection" and "genetics" means that the plant is genetically engineered to produce toxins to kill insects.

Let me say that again...


The plant itself produces toxins to kill insects.


That is, the plant itself is toxic. It produces poisons in a frankenstein-natural sort of way. The plant's toxins kill insects. It's like eating pesticide. No, sorry... It's not "like" eating pesticide - it IS eating pesticide.

That link above is part of the whole Monsanto thing. There are many more just like it.

Some of the Monsanto technologies come from Bayer... an offshoot of IG Farben, who were your friendly neighbourhood Auschwitz company.

If I were to be completely cynical, I'd say (FAIR WARNING - to read - highlight from here) they're trying to put the gas chambers in the food itself (over to here).

But all that is just the beginning. It only goes downhill from there.

I hope that one example is enough to illustrate that I'm not completely insane.


@Eóin
There is a fundamental difference between poisoning people and trying to make people sterile, and trying to limit population growth through ethical means.

I don't want to get into that debate there, but I think I've made my position on the topic sufficiently clear. There are ethical ways to do things, and evil ways to do things.
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Re: Lost My Faith - Need New Religion - Need LAMP Help...
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2012, 11:46:13 PM »
Still in the process of migrating sites & whatnot over to one server...

Put on tinfoil hat - here's one reference to questions/comments from above
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wraith808

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Re: Lost My Faith - Need New Religion - Need LAMP Help...
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2012, 08:01:10 AM »
Spoiler
Following the trail of references from the article above, I found the following- first it goes to the voice of russia as the final reference, and every other reference to the agencies that were mentioned in that article as having done the experiments links to that same page.  I can't even find reference other than linking to that article, of the agency mentioned.  The second point I would say even in the results of the experiment is that they had four control groups, and 3 results.  The third point I would make is this quote from one of the doctors involved in the research quoted on http://www.responsib...chnology.org/blog/18

Quote
Surov warns against jumping to early conclusions. He said, “It is quite possible that the GMO does not cause these effects by itself.” Surov wants to make the analysis of the feed components a priority, to discover just what is causing the effect and how.

Now, none of this is me saying that the results are wrong, or that they are trying to be misleading or jumping to conclusions.  It's just quite interesting.  Especially not seeing the results of the study on any medical/academic website, when such papers are usually released to them- only on anti-GMO websites.