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Author Topic: NoteFrog Pro (clipboard information manager) - Mini-Review  (Read 32557 times)
berry
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« Reply #50 on: January 15, 2012, 09:10:14 AM »

No major issues to report with NFP ß 02.
The search and scroll operations still feel nice and fast with 1,927 items in the stack.

Minor problems:
  • When I start NFP from the Quicklaunch icon, it shows up in the systray and closes as minimised to the systray - which is what I expect it to do. However, it doesn't seem to start with windows even though I have selected that option, and when I put it in my startup folder to force it on startup, it started OK, but did not show in the systray and disappeared on close (though the process was still active).
  • After entering the Registration Code, the menu item "Go Pro - Purchase NoteFrog Professional" is greyed out, but when you restart NFP, the same item has been restored to black (i.e., is not greyed out).


Correct on both.

Start with Windows problem is a result of an error in the V2 conversion.
Registration issue is due to some of the registration code logic being  "dummied out" for beta testing purposes.

Both will be corrected before V2 release.

Once again - Good catch. You're quite the beta tester.

cheers,
berry
01/15/2012
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IainB
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« Reply #51 on: January 15, 2012, 04:47:19 PM »

@berry: The frog-croak continues to sound episodically - e.g., once whilst keyboard is locked (Windows+L) and inactive,  and a few minutes ago 4 croaks in quick succession, then a 5th about 30 seconds later.
I wondered if there might be a conflict between CHS capture and NFP capture - because  I am running both processes simultaneously - but everything else seems to work OK.
I might be the only tester doing that - running them both at the same time. Maybe that is why I am the only one reporting the episodic croaking behaviour.
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berry
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« Reply #52 on: January 15, 2012, 05:21:56 PM »

I'm not familiar with CHS Capture. I'll need to take a look at it and see if we have conflicting behavior.

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IainB
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« Reply #53 on: January 19, 2012, 01:30:45 AM »

Sorry - that's "CHS", for "Clipboard Help & Spell", a Donation Coder software by mouser.
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berry
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« Reply #54 on: January 19, 2012, 11:49:29 AM »

@berry: The frog-croak continues to sound episodically - e.g., once whilst keyboard is locked (Windows+L) and inactive,  and a few minutes ago 4 croaks in quick succession, then a 5th about 30 seconds later.
I wondered if there might be a conflict between CHS capture and NFP capture - because  I am running both processes simultaneously - but everything else seems to work OK.
I might be the only tester doing that - running them both at the same time. Maybe that is why I am the only one reporting the episodic croaking behaviour.

Hi Ian,

Thanks again for the report. Yes, I figured CHS was mouser's Clipboard Help & Spell. Nice little program.

The issue does appear to be due to interaction with CHS. Seems the CHS re-establish clipboard link causes NoteFrog to enter it's "Clipboard has been updated" routine. My current duplicate checking looks for a duplicate that was sent within moments of the previous clip, but will allow you to capture a duplicate if it's been a while since the previous capture - maybe you edited/changed the previous one and/or you want another. The re establish clipboard chain occurs every 15 minutes.  I'm not exactly sure how I want to handle this behavior. I may ask mouser to investigate Thornsoft's CF_CLIPBOARD_VIEWER_IGNORE format. http://www.clipboardexten...r_ignore-clipboard-format

cheers,




« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 11:56:09 AM by berry » Logged
oblivion
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« Reply #55 on: January 20, 2012, 03:11:46 PM »

Only just found this thread, or I'd have stuck my oar in before...

I played with NoteFrog for a while some months back -- Berry might remember my TechSupportAlert email address -- and came, slightly regretfully, to the conclusion that it wasn't going to work for me in its current form and I gave up.

But I really wanted to like it.

So... @berry, if you remember the email exchange I had with you back in April last year, I'd be interested to know if you've moved NF in directions that might mean it works better for me. In particular, tag management in a way more like that used by CintaNotes and easier reminders...

I'm currently using AllMyNotes coupled with CHS for this sort of stuff but AMN's insistence on a tree structure is beginning to be problematic for me, and its programmers are clearly far more mouse-oriented than keyboard -- which is also less than ideal. NF's idiosyncracies a year ago finally persuaded me that it wasn't yet ready to take over the contents of my brain in a way that I could work with, but (and you may recall I offered this at the end of our last exchange) I'd be completely happy to play with beta versions if you want another tester.  smiley
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berry
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« Reply #56 on: January 20, 2012, 04:35:33 PM »

Hi Tim,

Yes, I remember our exchange. And, unfortunately, there is no "calendar view" in V2. It could be accomplished via "tags" within the notes, but it would need to be via a free-form method developed by you to your liking - e.g. a tag in the note 2011/01/13 etc. All January items could easily be found via a 2011/01 search. I imagine you could find an even more creative way to tag your notes to meet your specifications. That's part of the beauty of a totally free-form database. We don't lock you into our expectations about what's best or right.

That said, future releases of V2 will introduce a searchable, free form tagging capability outside the note itself so you can have distinct tags that are not contained within the note. The capability is not in the base v2, but will be implemented in a future v2 release.

Assuming your email address is the same as before, I'll send you a link to a beta download shortly. Based on results so far, it should be pretty close to a pre-release version.

cheers,
berry
01/20/2012
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oblivion
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« Reply #57 on: January 21, 2012, 11:32:16 AM »

And, unfortunately, there is no "calendar view" in V2.

I don't even remember asking for that! Might be because I was looking for something more like ePIM than how my modus operandi has settled into now...
Quote
That said, future releases of V2 will introduce a searchable, free form tagging capability outside the note itself so you can have distinct tags that are not contained within the note. The capability is not in the base v2, but will be implemented in a future v2 release.

Now that IS something that will enhance the product.

Quote
Assuming your email address is the same as before, I'll send you a link to a beta download shortly. Based on results so far, it should be pretty close to a pre-release version.

Received with thanks.

Initial discoveries: the idiosyncratic interface that I remember from last try is almost gone, and (I'm afraid) I think that's probably all to the good. Good or bad, most people expect to find things that (interface-wise) behave like most other things, and I'm no different from anyone else in that if I can avoid reading tracts of documentation before making any use of a given program, then I will. The FAQ bit presents an I-beam rather than a pointer and still looks like the previous version, which probably needs a look. Also, there's a missing tooltip on the help, tools and utilities toolbar button.

I'm currently running it on my netbook, which is a (Win7Starter) 1024x600 screen. The above help toolbar button opens a window that will fit onscreen but starts in such a way that the bottom of the window is offscreen. If I move it up so I can see it all, it doesn't remember where I moved it to because next time I open it, I have to move it again.

More seriously, in an attempt to give it a quantity of data to chew on, I switched on automatic capture and spent a while copying data out of my AllMyNotes junkpile.

I don't like the popup "comunication (sic)" window that says what it's found, whether it's a dupe or not and that it's being added (or not.) It's intrusive, its options aren't obvious or even obviously necessary (Copy and clear -- I can see and understand what they do but where's the "Don't notify me again" checkbox?) and it's just not what I expected to happen.

At this point, I wanted to create a note inside of NF to store my notes about its behaviour. Insert item? Can't find it. Why not?

[Later] because it's only a toolbar icon. I can't right-click in the stack or pick an option off the Item menu, both of which were the things I expected to work.]

Then I started getting clipboard errors being reported by NF when I hit ^C in AMN.

Now I get more clipboard errors than not. "Unable to access Windows clipboard. Some program must have it locked." If I try again a few seconds later, it often works but this behaviour, once started, just gets more and more frequent. It doesn't make a difference if I'm running CHS or not -- which I thought might be the problem -- and the NF "reestablish clipboard chain" option doesn't help either, so it's not that sort of an issue. Background data handling running slower than it needs to given the number of incoming data items, maybe?

I saw the issue created by CHS too -- NF and CHS clearly can't comfortably coexist, which is a shame.


There's an issue with the search: I added something via the clipboard that included the term "NoteFrog" then switched to NF and searched for it (this was because I couldn't work out how to add an item inside of NF directly) and only got the "use it or lose it" default initial entry. It might well be because indexing hadn't caught up yet but I feel there should be some sort of suggestion that search results may not be accurate if the indexing process is currently busy...

I think I'd like some sort of import feature too. If only because migrating from another datastore an item at a time isn't pain-free... smiley

...I bet you wish I hadn't got involved, now... Wink
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 11:51:14 AM by oblivion » Logged

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berry
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« Reply #58 on: January 21, 2012, 02:18:04 PM »

In the immortal words of Maxwell Smart, "Sorry about that".

Not too long after I sent you the link, I realized I had upped the wrong version - my own debug version rather than the fixed executable. You must have gotten it before I corrected the upload.

I can understand your frustrations. NoteFrog and CHS should co-exist.

Try downloading again?

Or if you prefer, just download NoteFrog.exe from the same location and replace your existing exe.

There is a raw text input capability under the "Stack" menu - "Import all text items from a directory.."

I've also set up a forum for discussion http://notefrog.com/forum  - you will need to register, too much spam otherwise.

cheers - and thanks
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oblivion
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« Reply #59 on: January 21, 2012, 03:02:01 PM »

In the immortal words of Maxwell Smart, "Sorry about that".

Forgiven. smiley

Quote
Try downloading again?

Will do.

Quote
There is a raw text input capability under the "Stack" menu - "Import all text items from a directory.."

I think it would be better if you could import from a single file with some sort of delimiter to separate items. If I were to try to make individual text files for the stuff I've imported, it'd have been a longer process than an item at a time via the clipboard. (I shall assume that that would have worked, with the right version, a good deal more smoothly than it actually did!)

I suspect many junkpile-organiser-type programs would be able to squirt out their contents as a textfile with optionally some sort of separater between them -- although I can't say I've researched the subject, it just strikes me as sensible -- which would give you an import route at least for plaintext, as long as you could specify the delimiter...

Quote
I've also set up a forum for discussion http://notefrog.com/forum  - you will need to register, too much spam otherwise.

Registered. Not yet confirmed, but I'll do that next...

Your captcha is very hard even for real people. smiley
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berry
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« Reply #60 on: January 21, 2012, 04:54:54 PM »

I think it would be better if you could import from a single file with some sort of delimiter to separate items. If I were to try to make individual text files for the stuff I've imported, it'd have been a longer process than an item at a time via the clipboard. (I shall assume that that would have worked, with the right version, a good deal more smoothly than it actually did!)

I suspect many junkpile-organiser-type programs would be able to squirt out their contents as a textfile with optionally some sort of separator between them -- although I can't say I've researched the subject, it just strikes me as sensible -- which would give you an import route at least for plaintext, as long as you could specify the delimiter...

If there's some "generally" usable format, it should be easy enough to set up an import. I started out with a keynote format import but only had two users who used it. Everyone else needed something different. Different from everyone else:) I decided I would be spending more time writing import routines than improving the functionality of Frog.

Could probably develop something based on a user specified delimiter as long as everyone would be comfortable that any delimiters occurring in the files themselves would cause a new record.

See you in the forum.

cheers
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IainB
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« Reply #61 on: January 21, 2012, 11:57:02 PM »

Feedback on ß test:
Comments:

Major issues: None.

Minor issues:
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berry
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« Reply #62 on: January 22, 2012, 09:24:10 AM »

Quote
4. I keep getting an occasional exclamation "Ping" and the Comunication" box says I have a duplicate, when in fact I never did a Ctrl+C to create a duplicate.
    Example:

Quote
    17:59:31 Isduplicate NF and CHS clearly can't comfortably coexist
    17:59:31 newItem() duplicate - skipped
An informational/debug message, due to the way CHS "re-establish clipboard periodically"


Quote
5. I have found the "Comunication" box (missing an "m" there) very informative for testing purposes. I think it could be useful to retain that function, to provide a background log and for the user to enable/disable it for monitoring/testing purposes. Having a Copy button on it is a good idea too, as you can choose whether you want to keep part/all of the current log in the Stack - arguably better than having it as a separate log file, at any rate. (Though there seems to be something slightly amiss with the "Comunication" box - see "Minor issues" , below.)
It could be useful during testing, but, as mentioned, it's not quite ready for prime time yet smiley

Quote
1. There is no tooltip for the help, tools and utilities toolbar button - not sure if you wanted there to be one. (This is as per oblivion's comment.)
fixed

Quote

2. Though the position of the MAIN NF UI window seems to be remembered OK by NF (from its last opened position on the screen), some of the popup windows (e.g., Options) opened from the UI seem to open with their lower part truncated by (or "below") the bottom of my laptop screen. If I drag the popup window to where I can see it all, and then close it, the next time I open that popup window, NF evidently doesn't remember where I last moved it to - the window starts off again in the same truncated position. (This is as per oblivion's comment - sorry, though I had noticed this a while back, I had forgotten to mention it until I was reminded by his comment.)
Correct - most child windows are positioned relative to the main window. I'll move the options window up, but it won't be set to remember it's position in this release.

Quote
3. The "Comunication" window (missing an "m" there) is intrusive - this seems to be because, the way it currently works, it sometimes steals window focus, which it probably should not be doing. (Similar to what was mentioned by oblivion.)
See comment above

Quote
3. You sometimes/always (it's repeatable anyway) seem to have to force a Stack/viewer refresh (Ctrl+R) before a recently-copied clip with the search term appears in the search. It's in the Stack, but just not appearing in the search until you refresh. (Similar to what was mentioned by oblivion.)
Correct. At present, a search is "static".

I'll correct the issues as mentioned above and put a new version out. Unless I screw something up in the process (as we've seen, very possible), we MAY be getting close to a release.




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rjbull
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« Reply #63 on: January 22, 2012, 11:43:37 AM »

Quote
There is a raw text input capability under the "Stack" menu - "Import all text items from a directory.."

I think it would be better if you could import from a single file with some sort of delimiter to separate items.
And I think both options should be available  smiley  Definitely +1 for delimited text.  In fact, I was planning to add a message suggesting it, but you got there first.
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« Reply #64 on: January 22, 2012, 12:01:31 PM »

If there's some "generally" usable format, it should be easy enough to set up an import. I started out with a keynote format import but only had two users who used it. Everyone else needed something different. Different from everyone else:) I decided I would be spending more time writing import routines than improving the functionality of Frog.

I don't think there's a universal data exchange format, more's the pity.  I've been wrestling with this myself.  Several two-pane outliners say they support either Treepad Lite HJT or KeyNote KNT formats, so I've tried converting files via those two, but I've not had much luck, and suspect that KeyNote's own import may not be perfect.  In particular, KeyNote seems to mark some plain text notes as RTF and that seems to cause a problem where a note comes out blank.  CSV is a common data-exchange format, but while I don't have enough knowledge to be really clear about it, CSV seems to me problematic inasmuch as plenty of data I have already contains quote symbols.

Could probably develop something based on a user specified delimiter as long as everyone would be comfortable that any delimiters occurring in the files themselves would cause a new record.

Horst Schaeffer's MemPad allows export to a delimited text file in what seems to me a particularly sensible format that's accessible to people with limited scripting skills, without them having to be real programmers.  You can define the delimiter yourself.  I searched my file with BareGrep Pro and found that it did not contain ASCII 135, so that's what I chose.  ASCII 135 looks like hash a hash symbol in some fonts, or a featureless rectangular blob in others.  The output file looks similar to this:

‡ Music

‡‡ Anon.

‡‡‡ Dufay Collective

The Dufay Collective: The Recordings

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00y233j

It is twenty years since the Dufay Collective's influential disc of medieval dance music, [...]

‡‡‡ Pilgrimage to Montserrat

Pilgrimage to Montserrat

Anon — Los set goyts recomptarem

Performer: Hesperion XX
[...]

‡‡ Brahms

‡‡‡ Horn Trio, Op.40

Brahms
Horn Trio, Op.40
William Purvis (horn)
[...]

‡‡ Grieg

‡‡‡ String Quartet No 2 in F

Grieg, compl. Julius Rontgen: String Quartet No 2 in F
Raphael Quartet


The number of delimiters indicates the "level" of the node in question.  It's simple enough even for people like me to reduce them to single instances, or change them to another delimiter.
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« Reply #65 on: January 22, 2012, 03:46:27 PM »

Looks like delimiter always at beginning of line?

Since Frog isn't "leveled", just treat multiple concurrent delimiters as one?

Can you upload a test file somewhere? Or email something?

Can work on something. Probably not for V2.0, but something like that is very possible.
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oblivion
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« Reply #66 on: January 22, 2012, 04:05:42 PM »

Can work on something. Probably not for V2.0, but something like that is very possible.

AllMyNotes exports as RTF (I think because its text defaults to richtext and it supports images) and delimits items with --- followed by some text specifying the route to the node in the tree that could be either ignored or imported along with the rest of the item, for simplicity.

On a sample of two, I'd say options of plaintext and richtext and a user-specified inter-note marker and you'd get rjbull's and my approval. smiley Or, more to the point, you'd be able to offer a competitive upgrade route...
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« Reply #67 on: January 22, 2012, 04:40:17 PM »

Looks like delimiter always at beginning of line?
In MemPad's case, yes.

Since Frog isn't "leveled", just treat multiple concurrent delimiters as one?

Can you upload a test file somewhere? Or email something?

Can work on something. Probably not for V2.0, but something like that is very possible.
Sorry, I wasn't clear.  I'm not asking for NoteFrog to have a MemPad importer as such, but to be able to import a file of the general type I suggested above, without the levels, obviously.  Most worthwhile programs can export data as plain text.  It would be up to the user to massage their data from whatever source they had into that format.  Because of being just plain text, it's easy to edit into shape using nothing more than a plain text editor, perhaps augmented by a bit of simple scripting.  Another brutally simple format:

-=+NoteFrog+gorFetoN+=-
Anon.

The Dufay Collective: The Recordings

It is twenty years since the Dufay Collective's [...]

-=+NoteFrog+gorFetoN+=-
Anon.

The Dufay Collective: The Recordings
Pilgrimage to Montserrat
[...]

-=+NoteFrog+gorFetoN+=-
Brahms
Horn Trio, Op.40

-=+NoteFrog+gorFetoN+=-
Grieg
String Quartet No 2 in F

Grieg, compl. Julius Rontgen: String Quartet No 2 in F
<end of file>

Where the delimiter is on a line by itself, and the note title is taken from the first non-blank line of the note.
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« Reply #68 on: January 22, 2012, 05:36:35 PM »

OK - 1st up in a soon-to-be beta (but maybe not in V2.0) -

NoteFrog specified delimiter (e.g. ++NoteFrog++)  = you convert whatever delimiter you can get from your existing program to ++NoteFrog++

Input is
  All plain text items OR
  All rich text items

Loaded as individual items into the active stack.
Strip blank (empty) text lines at beginning of plain text.
Rich text imported "as is"

Reasonable for now?
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« Reply #69 on: January 23, 2012, 10:36:26 AM »

Sounds good, thanks!   smiley
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« Reply #70 on: February 05, 2012, 02:12:56 AM »

NoteFrog Professional Lifetime License

RETAIL $49.95
68% OFF $15.95

http://www.bitsdujour.com...re/notefrog-professional/

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« Reply #71 on: February 06, 2012, 09:47:50 AM »

Hello,

in my tests with NoteFrog Pro i wasn't able to create links for files, if the path of a file contained spaces. Is this a bug?


Best regards,
Floppy
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berry
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« Reply #72 on: February 06, 2012, 09:52:31 AM »

Hello,

in my tests with NoteFrog Pro i wasn't able to create links for files, if the path of a file contained spaces. Is this a bug?

Filenames with spaces can cause problems in some cases. I'll take a look at it.

cheers

Edit.

Yes, the edit control does not accept the filename with embedded spaces as a true clickable link. I'll need to correct this.
A fix will be forthcoming, but may not make it into the V2.0 release, which is in Release candidate status right now.

Edit.
Fixed for V2.0
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 11:00:23 AM by berry » Logged
berry
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« Reply #73 on: February 23, 2012, 11:41:04 AM »

NoteFrog Professional Lifetime License

RETAIL $49.95
68% OFF $15.95

http://www.bitsdujour.com...re/notefrog-professional/


A few DC'ers missed the BTJ promo and asked about re-opening the DC special. I told them I would offer DC'ers the BTJ special for the Last week in February. I should have announced this yesterday, but did not want to step on the RightNote BTJ promo.

http://notefrog.com/dcoffer.html

cheers
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« Reply #74 on: February 23, 2012, 01:40:20 PM »

A few DC'ers missed the BTJ promo and asked about re-opening the DC special. I told them I would offer DC'ers the BTJ special for the Last week in February. I should have announced this yesterday, but did not want to step on the RightNote BTJ promo.
http://notefrog.com/dcoffer.html
Many thanks Berry.       Thmbsup
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