Welcome Guest.   Make a donation to an author on the site October 25, 2014, 10:43:06 PM  *

Please login or register.
Or did you miss your validation email?


Login with username and password (forgot your password?)
Why not become a lifetime supporting member of the site with a one-time donation of any amount? Your donation entitles you to a ton of additional benefits, including access to exclusive discounts and downloads, the ability to enter monthly free software drawings, and a single non-expiring license key for all of our programs.


You must sign up here before you can post and access some areas of the site. Registration is totally free and confidential.
 
Read the full one-year retrospective report on DonationCoder.com.
   
   Forum Home   Thread Marks Chat! Downloads Search Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Reply  |  New Topic  |  Print  
Author Topic: LHC Finds HBP? Or at least...they think they did...Awesome if confirmed!  (Read 5933 times)
Stephen66515
Animated Giffer in Chief
Honorary Member
**
Posts: 2,690



see users location on a map View Profile Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« on: December 12, 2011, 06:34:37 PM »


http://www.dailymail.co.u...rticle-expected-CERN.html

Quote
The ‘God particle’, hailed as the holy grail of physics, may have been glimpsed for the first time.

Excited scientists at the Large Hadron Collider – the world’s biggest atom smasher – are expected to announce today that they have spotted the Higgs boson particle.

While they will not claim definitive proof, they are tipped to reveal tantalising evidence of the particle’s existence.
Logged

No trees were harmed during the creation of this message.  Millions of electrons, however, were terribly inconvenienced

"Think left and think right and think low and think high. Oh, the things you can think up if only you try!" - Dr. Seuss
rgdot
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 1,647


View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2011, 06:37:05 PM »

 thumbs up

Physics rules  Cool
Logged
Stephen66515
Animated Giffer in Chief
Honorary Member
**
Posts: 2,690



see users location on a map View Profile Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2011, 06:39:13 PM »

47 Years in the waiting!
Logged

No trees were harmed during the creation of this message.  Millions of electrons, however, were terribly inconvenienced

"Think left and think right and think low and think high. Oh, the things you can think up if only you try!" - Dr. Seuss
zridling
Friend of the Site
Charter Member
***
Posts: 3,291


Linux captive

see users location on a map View Profile WWW Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2011, 12:42:37 AM »

Ironically, the misnomer "god particle" for the Higgs Boson, if discovered, would effectively kill off the idea (or need) to explain god. The Standard Model will be complete at that point, showing us how matter interacts, and gains mass and attraction. Not sure god-believers would know whether they should be depressed, but then nothing would let them give up their metaphors.
Logged

- zaine (on Google+)
Deozaan
Charter Member
***
Posts: 6,420



see users location on a map View Profile WWW Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2011, 01:04:12 AM »

I admit my ignorance in physics (supposedly I'm dumber than a monkey when it comes to physics) and especially about the Higgs Boson, but why would the knowledge of how matter interacts and gains mass and attraction remove the need/idea of God?
Logged

mahesh2k
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 1,408



see users location on a map View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2011, 01:20:32 AM »

God particle has nothing to do with "concept of god" as far as LHC is concerned . It was named only to simplify the concept of smallest possible particle that could answer some of the questions related to BBT and Singularity (universe formation, which is linked with the theological concept of god) and other puzzles in particle physics. As far as particle physics folks are concerned, I doubt they give any weight to concept of god unless ofcourse if they're heavily brainwashed in camp or Sunday morning meetups. Those who want to believe, find ways to bend the concept of god in their favor irrespective of lack of evidence. That aside, I guess it's the peak at which we can dig particle physics. I don't know if there is anything else left in theory for them to conduct more research in this domain once this stuff finishes.
Logged
IainB
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 4,792


Slartibartfarst

see users location on a map View Profile Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2011, 02:16:25 AM »

Ironically, the misnomer "god particle" for the Higgs Boson, if discovered, would effectively kill off the idea (or need) to explain god.
Quote
“Now it [the Babel Fish] is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as the final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.
The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist,'" says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.”
 - the Narrator in Douglas Adams' The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
Logged
zridling
Friend of the Site
Charter Member
***
Posts: 3,291


Linux captive

see users location on a map View Profile WWW Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2011, 11:28:26 PM »

And that's the exact point: what would be left to explain? We figured it out; it wasn't written in the bible, and despite the internet, there's been no "revelation" from any gods in more than a millenia according to the established religions.
Logged

- zaine (on Google+)
superboyac
Charter Member
***
Posts: 5,706


Is your software in my list?

see users location on a map View Profile WWW Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2011, 12:18:06 AM »

You know, I'd like to comment here.  I was heavily involved with physics research when I was in school and all this stuff was a big deal.  The scientists, if I'm not mistaken, HATE that this thing has become called the god particle.
Logged

Shades
Member
**
Posts: 1,673


see users location on a map View Profile Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2011, 08:24:30 AM »

@zridling:
You forget about the Mormons. According to them their president is a prophet...and those have a direct connection with the almighty one, is it not? ;-)

Guess they could not invent a better title for the top position (their church is part of a corporation after all, hehehe).
Logged
Eóin
Charter Member
***
Posts: 1,400


O'Callaghan

see users location on a map View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2011, 10:23:07 AM »

Here's an awesome explanation of why the scientists cannot claim to have proof yet, but are nonetheless super excited and confident - Starts with a Bang - The Large Hadron Collider, the Higgs, and Hope.
Logged

Interviewer: Is there anything you don't like?
Bjarne Stroustrup: Marketing hype as a substitute for technical argument. Thoughtless adherence to dogma. Pride in ignorance.
Josh
Charter Honorary Member
***
Posts: 3,338



View Profile Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2011, 10:43:43 AM »

WOW! Great find there Eoin! Thanks for the link!
Logged

Strength in Knowledge
40hz
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 10,737



see users location on a map View Profile Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2011, 05:43:29 PM »

You know, I'd like to comment here.  I was heavily involved with physics research when I was in school and all this stuff was a big deal.  The scientists, if I'm not mistaken, HATE that this thing has become called the god particle.

They do.

Here's a report from the Washington Post on where the term "god particle" came from:

Quote
In truth, the term ‘God Particle’ was coined more by marketing than by theologians or scientists. The name was coined by Leon Lederman, a Nobel-Prize-winning physicist, for the title of a book -- The God Particle: If The Universe Is The Answer, What Is The Question?

It’s a great title, and whether it actually boosted sales or not, it is far easier to sell God than a Higgs Boson. How many people know what that is? Of course the same can be said for God, which is where this story gets more interesting.

The God Particle does not threaten faith and doesn’t even claim to do what most people imagine when they hear the term: replace God. Having found the God Particle, scientists would be the first to admit that they story is not over - that this new piece of information will help explain many things and open doors to new and even more complex questions

One overly clever and entertaining physicist trying to get in a soundbyte - an endless series of pointless and totally unnecessary arguments birthed in its wake. undecided

-----

Note to physicists: Please don't try to get cute or indulge in wordplay with people who cannot deal with paradox and ambiguity; or who tend to take things very literally. That way madness lies. For all of us! tongue
« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 05:51:11 PM by 40hz » Logged

Don't you see? It's turtles all the way down!
Fred Nerd
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 272



see users location on a map View Profile Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2011, 05:10:57 AM »

Not only do scientist hate the term, but so do Christians. It makes fun of both science and religion for the sake of a cheap word.

Or maybe its just me.

I see no problem with finding the Higgs Boson or finding anything else.
Was it Galileo who said that the Bible tells us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go?
Well the Higgs Boson is the opposite.

Also just because that means it was possible that it all happened with an expansion of a waveform or something, it still doesn't mean that's what happened.

Sort of the 'God made the world complete with old dinosaur bones' theory.

Its all good fun  smiley
You see the results your way, I see them mine and everyone has a good time.
Logged
kyrathaba
N.A.N.Y. Organizer
Honorary Member
**
Posts: 3,010



while(! dead_horse){beat}

see users location on a map View Profile WWW Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2011, 08:25:45 AM »

Quote
Not sure god-believers would know whether they should be depressed, but then nothing would let them give up their metaphors.

Of course, non-believers' belief (that god-believers' beliefs are metaphors only and not based in a factual God) is simply itself an opinion, because science and philosophy can neither prove nor disprove the existence of a God.
Logged

Win 7 Home Premium 64bit-SP1 AMD Athlon II X2 220 Socket AM3 (938) @ 2.1GHz 6GB RAM Firefox 26.0
_________________________________________________________________________________________

I'm fighting against patent trolls. Join me and tell your representative to support the #SHIELDAct: https://eff.org/r.b6JJ /via @EFF

My DC page: http://kyrathaba.dcmembers.com | My blog: http://williambryanmiller.com/ | Proofreading Service: http://bit.ly/1fQSqQP

IainB
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 4,792


Slartibartfarst

see users location on a map View Profile Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2011, 12:11:16 PM »

Quote
Of course, non-believers' belief (that god-believers' beliefs are metaphors only and not based in a factual God) is simply itself an opinion, because science and philosophy can neither prove nor disprove the existence of a God.

Spot on.
There seems to be no proof that God exists.
There seems to be no proof that God does not exist - though Thomas Paine's biting criticism of the Bible and religion in "The Age of Reason" (Published in 1794 and 1796) arguably came pretty close.

My 10-year old daughter understands that to believe in God or anything else that you do not know for sure to be true (e.g., ghosts, invisible friends, fairies at the bottom of the garden, the emperor's new clothes) necessitates credulity and the suspension of reason. Despite that, she understands when I tell her that that some people do not believe in the god(s) of religion or myth, but yet have apparently had a direct experience that enabled them to know that there is something (e.g., typically: it felt like pure, unconditional love, and maybe it's "God", and that it has always loved us, is loving us now, and always will, for every moment of our existence).

This kind of direct experience or revelation has been relatively well-documented. Maybe some of these people were hallucinating and "hearing voices", but it seemed real enough to them. For example, Saul's conversion on the road to Damascus (New Testament, Acts 9), where he - a non-believer full of hatred - had a vision of Jesus Christ.

Who is to say that a person's direct experience - which you cannot share directly as he did - is valid/true or not? To say it were either thing (i.e., valid/true or not) would seem to be irrational in itself. How could you possibly know? We are irrational by nature and so we tend to form an "opinion", to which our ego becomes attached and causes us to stick by that opinion and defend it to the death.

This is why I made this post in a separate thread about the Higgs Boson:
Yes, I found this about the theoretical Higgs boson in Wikipedia:
Interestingly, there are apparently two groups of scientists:
(a) Higgs: those scientists who are believers in the SM (Standard Model) predictions and who apparently:
Quote
... expect the LHC experiment to be able to provide definitive experimental evidence of the existence of the Higgs boson.

and

(b) Higgsless: those scientists who are non-believers in the SM - and who thus hold instead that the HM (Hiiggsless Model) is the Truth and who apparently:
Quote
expect the LHC experiment to be able to provide experimental evidence of the non-existence of the Higgs boson.

Scientists! They're a funny lot aren't they?     huh

I don't know how many of either group might be climate scientists.
Logged
IainB
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 4,792


Slartibartfarst

see users location on a map View Profile Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2011, 03:19:33 AM »

Interesting blog post here from one Luboš Motl, a scientist (physicist) in the Czech Republic:
Why the God particle is an accurate term

Logged
kyrathaba
N.A.N.Y. Organizer
Honorary Member
**
Posts: 3,010



while(! dead_horse){beat}

see users location on a map View Profile WWW Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2011, 09:24:49 PM »

Love his tongue-in-cheek "translation" of the Bible into HBP-speak  tongue
Logged

Win 7 Home Premium 64bit-SP1 AMD Athlon II X2 220 Socket AM3 (938) @ 2.1GHz 6GB RAM Firefox 26.0
_________________________________________________________________________________________

I'm fighting against patent trolls. Join me and tell your representative to support the #SHIELDAct: https://eff.org/r.b6JJ /via @EFF

My DC page: http://kyrathaba.dcmembers.com | My blog: http://williambryanmiller.com/ | Proofreading Service: http://bit.ly/1fQSqQP

IainB
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 4,792


Slartibartfarst

see users location on a map View Profile Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2011, 02:49:35 AM »

Yes, I think that's what they call "Taking the Mickey", isn't it?
The rest of his blog makes for interesting reading too.
He doesn't mince his words.
Logged
mahesh2k
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 1,408



see users location on a map View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2011, 03:01:59 AM »

5th Comment explains exactly How I see this research as of now.

This comment was epic   Grin

Quote
reader Edstock said... ►6
Seems like God lost His marbles.


Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Reply  |  New Topic  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  
   Forum Home   Thread Marks Chat! Downloads Search Login Register  

DonationCoder.com | About Us
DonationCoder.com Forum | Powered by SMF
[ Page time: 0.055s | Server load: 0.09 ]