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Author Topic: iPhone feature which poses a high privacy risk everytime you take a picture?  (Read 2415 times)
cpt.deckard
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« on: October 12, 2011, 10:34:38 PM »

Sure Geotagging is not news to anyone here, if it is watch ths ABC special report

but isn't it a bit crazy that you don't get a more clear warning first time you take a picture? Something which may say "WARNING: if you post pictures online anyone can track the location of where the pic was taken"...

I know it helps apps and is super useful, but how useful is it for the built-in camera to have this feature enabled...? or am I missing something?
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EĆ³in
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« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2011, 07:42:43 AM »

Oh noes, the hackers have discovered exif data ohmy
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Deozaan
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« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2011, 10:44:18 AM »

It's not just the iPhone that does this. Android phones do it as well, but AFAIK it is disabled by default and you have to enable it in the camera settings.

It is definitely something to be aware of.
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EĆ³in
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« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2011, 11:54:38 AM »

I fully agree, it's a dangerous feature and people should be aware of it, but the "special report" was hilarious.
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40hz
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« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2011, 01:20:03 PM »

I have never trusted iPhones.

With all the crazy restrictions and lockdowns placed on it, I have never used my iPhone once without the nagging feeling somebody someplace was watching everything I was doing. And I'm still not convinced that my turning off things like location tracking or the phone/network functions (2G/3G) really took me completely off AT&T's grid.

Both Apple and AT&T have demonstrated the capacity to lie with a straight face over voiced privacy concerns. Why should I believe that my pushing a little touch slider switch does anything more than keep me from doing something?

I've had apps upgrade themselves after I've repeatedly told them not to update. And I've had network tech utility apps downloaded from Apple disappear from my phone (without my consent) about the same time they were mysteriously removed from the app store.

I did not receive any notice from Apple that they were going to do this either before or after it happened. And when I queried Apple all I was told was that the apps in question no longer complied with Apple's guidelines and were therefor removed. When I complained, it was politely suggested I reread the iPhone EULA and AppStore T&C if I was "confused" about anything and wished a nice day.

After those incidents, there's nothing too negative for me to believe about this device. Angry

(Note: the iPhone EULA is 159 pages, and the AppStore T&S is an additional 7 last time I checked. Nice bedtime reading.)

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Renegade
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« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2011, 02:09:12 PM »

If we can get back to the bare bones hardware deal but on phones where you get a default OS, but can install another, then we'll be much better off for privacy.

What am I saying? I'm clearly just bonkers. Please lock me up and get me a doctor!  ohmy
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40hz
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« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2011, 05:24:15 PM »

If we can get back to the bare bones hardware deal but on phones where you get a default OS, but can install another, then we'll be much better off for privacy.

What am I saying? I'm clearly just bonkers. Please lock me up and get me a doctor!  ohmy

Enter the men with the white coats.

That is not going to happen. The telcos have got every government so worried about people hacking the G networks that there's virtually noting generally available that is seriously unlocked. Half the phone manufacturers (after some arm-twisting if they want to sell their products in many places) are building hardware reset functionality into these devices. So even if you do jailbreak them they will just check for and reload their official OS from silicon either periodically or after a restart.

Smartphones are not going to be allowed to be open devices. Not to say there won't be ways developed (most likely a boot wedge) to get around it. It will just keep getting more bothersome and hassle-prone to do so.



There's no rest for 'the wicked' these days. Grin

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EĆ³in
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« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2011, 07:53:59 PM »

Maybe in america, but so far in the EU you can still buy a phone "SIM free" and then hook it up to whatever network you wish. Throughout the 3rd world this is true too!
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Stoic Joker
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« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2011, 06:43:28 AM »

I've had apps upgrade themselves after I've repeatedly told them not to update. And I've had network tech utility apps downloaded from Apple disappear from my phone (without my consent) about the same time they were mysteriously removed from the app store.

I did not receive any notice from Apple that they were going to do this either before or after it happened. And when I queried Apple all I was told was that the apps in question no longer complied with Apple's guidelines and were therefor removed. When I complained, it was politely suggested I reread the iPhone EULA and AppStore T&C if I was "confused" about anything and wished a nice day.

Um... Wow! ...Please tell me you're not still using that silly contraption. I generally consider myself to be a patient person ... But I'd disassemble that thing with a chainsaw - In the phone store - if that ever happend.
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jgpaiva
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« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2011, 07:55:11 AM »

Actually, this is a "feature" in some cameras. When I bought mine, I actually pondered buying one of those with geotagging, it looks like a very cool idea when you are on vacations to be able to see the itinerary you made and remember which location each photo corresponds to.
However, I do agree that there should be an easy way to remove the information before uploading it anywhere.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 11:34:12 AM by jgpaiva; Reason: typo » Logged

40hz
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« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2011, 08:02:32 AM »

Maybe in america, but so far in the EU you can still buy a phone "SIM free" and then hook it up to whatever network you wish. Throughout the 3rd world this is true too!

Technically speaking, you can do that in the USA too. But the providers aren't required to activate your own phone or unlock it. And for all practical purposes, they don't.

And while there's nothing illegal about unlocking an iPhone after your contract expires, AT&T has announced they flat-out will not do it for you. End of discussion.

Welcome to the Land of the Free.  undecided
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Renegade
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« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2011, 03:36:44 PM »

Geotagging and all that goodness can be wonderful.

Imagine you want to create a family vacation slideshow (or video or whatever), and you get to pull in location data to automatically display maps of where you were.

I've been wanting to buy a GPS unit for our camera for a while. Still haven't gotten one, but eventually...

I don't think I'm really all that interesting, so I'm not particularly worried about GPS tags in my photos.

When I added some cropping functionality to my Photo Resizer software, I had to sanitize thumbnails. Those can be problematic.

The original article was in the context of stalking children though... Dunno. Geotagging can also help you keep track of your kids. It's really a double-edged sword.

Any tool can be used for "good or evil". People bludgeon each other with hammers and stab each other with screwdrivers, but we don't start freaking out about the evils of hammers. What was that bumper sticker? "Guns don't kill people. I do." tongue "There are no bad dogs, just bad owners."

For automatically enabling it, I think that's a good idea. You can't get the data back if you don't have it to start with, and it's relatively easy to sanitize EXIF data.

Dunno... I just think the world is better when we don't automatically assume that terrorists and child molesters are stalking us on every street corner. The media has created such a massive reality distortion field around so many issues there, and the field isn't a good one -- it's pure fear. Not a particularly nice way to live. Sad
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mahesh2k
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« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2011, 04:02:17 PM »

Quote
Dunno... I just think the world is better when we don't automatically assume that terrorists and child molesters are stalking us on every street corner.

I have to disagree. Many girls who share their pics on facebook with friends and in turn public (thanks to zuckerberg for making every profile public by default) are not even aware of this type of abuse. It's not media created paranoia. Many European and Russian girls who got their profiles open to public are ending up in some CPA ad or inside some adult social network as fake profile picture (even though they have nothing adult in the picture, random simple picture with family lands some of them in such fake profile). It's not surprising if anyone says - EU and russian girls often fall to most of the identity theft issues because of their looks. I'm damn sure that due to their thinking speed, they're not even aware of the abuse. No gender offense but some teen gals are simply dumb to keep profile open or maybe that could be popularity contest for them in school or university. Maybe most of you are not aware of this fact that people in united states(or any country with large internet shopping population) instantly click on CPA ad with girl featured in it,irrespective of the offer. It roots to the conversion and for the same reason many EU/zec gals are in fiver these days doing promotional gigs. Many forums are running with gigs of creating 100's of fake profile on adult network with pictures stolen from facebook or any open social network. This is one of the reason i hate google and facebook for their open-ness. We can't change dumb people but we can surely voice against corporations who are responsible for this type of situation.
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Stoic Joker
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« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2011, 05:08:52 PM »

Dunno... I just think the world is better when we don't automatically assume that terrorists and child molesters are stalking us on every street corner. The media has created such a massive reality distortion field around so many issues there, and the field isn't a good one -- it's pure fear. Not a particularly nice way to live.

We can't change dumb people but we can surely voice against corporations who are responsible for this type of situation.

Personally I think these two points fit together quite nicely. I agree with Renegade, the media has whipped everyone into a fear frenzy where nobody wants to trust anybody. The terrorist "bogyman" is behind every door. The problem of course is that they are trying to stampede us into trusting (them) the very group that is actually out to screw us.

Then on mahesh2k's side, while there are actually real problems out there, they get drown out by the steady stream of nonsense the media keeps trying to spoon feed people.


Every generation gets to a point where its members start to look back and think about "Simpler Times". For the ones in play now a great deal has been lost in the past decade. How much exactly will remain unknown for quite some time...I fear.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 05:37:25 PM by Stoic Joker » Logged
40hz
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« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2011, 05:43:46 PM »

Personally I think these two points fit together quite nicely. I agree with Renegade, the media has whipped everyone into a fear frenzy where nobody wants to trust anybody. The terrorist "bogyman" is behind every door. The problem of course is that they are trying to stampede us into trusting (them) the very group that is actually out to screw us.

James Thurber had a bit to say about those who do things to us for our own good. Check out his classic The Birds and the Foxes from his book Fables for Our Time

Quote

"The Birds and the Foxes"
by James Thurber

Once upon a time there was a bird sanctuary in which hundreds of Baltimore orioles lived together happily. The refuge consisted of a forest entirely surrounded by a highwire fence. When it was put up, a pack of foxes who lived nearby protested that it was an arbitrary and unnatural boundary. However, they did nothing about it at the time because they were interested in civilizing the geese and ducks on the neighboring farms. When all the geese and ducks had been civilized, and there was nothing left to eat, the foxes once more turned their attention to the bird sanctuary. Their leader announced that there had once been foxes in the sanctuary but that they had been driven out. He proclaimed that Baltimore orioles belonged in Baltimore. He said, furthermore, that the orioles in the sanctuary were a continuous menace to the peace of the world. The other animals cautioned the foxes not to disturb the birds in their sanctuary.

So the foxes attacked the sanctuary one night and tore down the fence that surrounded it. The orioles rushed out and were instantly killed and eaten by the foxes.

The next day the leader of the foxes, a fox from whom God was receiving daily guidance, got upon the rostrum and addressed the other foxes. His message was simple and sublime. "You see before you another Lincoln. We have liberated all those birds."
 


Moral: Government of the orioles, by the foxes, and for the foxes, must perish from the earth.
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Fred Nerd
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« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2011, 04:24:46 AM »



Dunno... I just think the world is better when we don't automatically assume that terrorists and child molesters are stalking us on every street corner. The media has created such a massive reality distortion field around so many issues there, and the field isn't a good one -- it's pure fear. Not a particularly nice way to live. Sad

If people don't make it so tempting for people to become stalkers/identity thieves etc. then there wouldn't be so many of them. Its like not leaving valuables in your car. If nobody leaves valuables in cars, no-one is tempted to steal them, so if a one off chance comes up no-one is used to stealing and it doesn't get stolen.

With geotagging, if everyone does it, it means that there is a chance of finding something out about people so it turns people into even more stalkers.

FaceBook is bad enough as it is. Its not socially acceptable to meet someone one night, next morning you are finding out their life story, family, education, work, address, past addresses, where they went on holidays, what they wear and if they go to wild parties.

I hate talking to a friend and having the:
"Oh, did I tell you about my trip?"
"I read it on FB"
And nothing more to say.

So if we try to keep things private, we'll create a closed culture that can only be beneficial.
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