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Author Topic: Sansa Clip Zip: Wow!  (Read 20008 times)
NigelH
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« Reply #50 on: December 13, 2011, 06:43:39 PM »

Seeing that your speakers are powered, I suspect the IPOD.
Perhaps you can find a second hand Sansa (Clip or even Fuze) on eBay
I really like their players - great sounding

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Deozaan
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« Reply #51 on: December 20, 2011, 11:17:03 AM »

I just got an e-mail from http://NewEgg.com/

Use this code to get 30% off all SanDisk MP3 players: EMCJHHK82

The code is valid until Dec 26th or sooner if funds/supplies run out. Here's a short URL to their product page with all the SanDisk MP3 players listed: http://goo.gl/288Ar
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« Reply #52 on: December 20, 2011, 11:27:31 AM »

Amazon has a bunch of Clip+ 8GB refurbs in $35 - $45 range. I am pretty sure you get the same 1 year warranty with the refurbs. I know I did with mine. Refurbs at the bottom of the page.
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superboyac
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« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2012, 10:59:55 AM »

More expensive, but just mentioning it because I have one and it's worked extremely well for me:  NuForce's Nudaq.
http://www.amazon.com/NuForce-uDAC-2-Silver-Headphone-24bit/dp/B003Y5LY1C/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1323654072&sr=1-1-spell

No pressure, if you're not into audio you're probably not interested.  Just throwing it out there!

(I use the nudaq from my computer into a receiver.  I assume the one mentioned above would do the same.  I would not expect these to power speakers directly (self-powered speakers should be fine.)
I may give that a shot.  I've never experimented with the next level of audiophile-ness, which is using a preamp like that.  Preamps are one of those things that most people look at the price tag and immediately think it's BS pretentiousness.  But there must be something to it, so I need to try it out.
kfitting, I don't quite understand how this device works.  Can you help me?
If I plug that thing into the computer USB port, does it become a new soundcard?  Or does the regular soundcard feed THRU that thing and into the headphones?  What if the soundcard is just shitty cheap soundcard that comes with the computer, does this thing help?  Or does it have to be paired with a good soundcard?
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kfitting
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« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2012, 06:47:57 AM »

I dont know your experience with this stuff so apologize if I'm not technical enough, or too techinical!

It's a USB DAC (Digital to Analog Converter).  You plug it into your USB port and it converts audio into analog signals the line input on your stereo/receiver can reproduce through speakers (or, if you use the headphone output, directly through headphones).  It requires no drivers (it's just a USB device) and you get another volume slider exclusively for it (in Win 7 at least).  It takes the place of a soundcard (a soundcard on a desktop PC usually is a PCI DAC). 

This device is great for boosting the audio quality output of a laptop (what I use it for).  It bypasses the crappy soundcard on the motherboard and allows you to use any powered speaker or amplifier system.   

It does not allow as much configurability as built in soundcards do (or did... it's been awhile since I've had one).  But it works on any computer and the sound quality is fine.  Here is the in-depth review I read a few years ago when deciding to get it: http://www.head-fi.org/t/456945/first-impressions-nuforce-udac-usb-dac-amp-with-line-out-and-s-pdif-out

And here is the product link to the new version:
http://www.nuforce.com/hp/products/iconudac2/

And, just to give you more options and confuse the issue, here is a wireless audio cable that uses the same principle as the uDAC above.  Both are excellent in my opinion (you use these separately, they dont stack):
http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-W1
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superboyac
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« Reply #55 on: January 14, 2012, 08:13:12 PM »

I dont know your experience with this stuff so apologize if I'm not technical enough, or too techinical!

It's a USB DAC (Digital to Analog Converter).  You plug it into your USB port and it converts audio into analog signals the line input on your stereo/receiver can reproduce through speakers (or, if you use the headphone output, directly through headphones).  It requires no drivers (it's just a USB device) and you get another volume slider exclusively for it (in Win 7 at least).  It takes the place of a soundcard (a soundcard on a desktop PC usually is a PCI DAC). 

This device is great for boosting the audio quality output of a laptop (what I use it for).  It bypasses the crappy soundcard on the motherboard and allows you to use any powered speaker or amplifier system.   

It does not allow as much configurability as built in soundcards do (or did... it's been awhile since I've had one).  But it works on any computer and the sound quality is fine.  Here is the in-depth review I read a few years ago when deciding to get it: http://www.head-fi.org/t/456945/first-impressions-nuforce-udac-usb-dac-amp-with-line-out-and-s-pdif-out

And here is the product link to the new version:
http://www.nuforce.com/hp/products/iconudac2/

And, just to give you more options and confuse the issue, here is a wireless audio cable that uses the same principle as the uDAC above.  Both are excellent in my opinion (you use these separately, they dont stack):
http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-W1
Thank you!  That explanation was perfect.  So it does replace the sound card essentially.  I like that, I may experiment with it at work since I'm there all day long.
I'm also in the market for a new pro level sound card.  I'm using an M-Audio 2496, which is pretty good, but years old.  It's a little unstable with my Windows 7 64 bit, but nothing serious.  It uses the PCI slot because it's so old.  I'm looking for something with a more modern slot connect, like pci-express or something else.  I don't like USB connectors for pro sound cards because I've had really bad luck with USB and audio years ago, and it was unstable for me.  Sounds like it's mostly a non-issue now, but I'd rather have one of those motherboard connections, they just feel better.  However, I was surprised to see that M-Audio hadn't really updated this product in many years now, they are still selling the same stuff.  And other companies don't have many options for sound card alternatives.  And the ones that do are super expensive...the prices range from the Maudio cheap stuff ($100-200) to the very expensive ($1000+).  There's nothing in the $200-1000 range.  Very odd.

But maybe USB is the way to go, maybe someone has a USB 3.0 device.
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Edvard
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« Reply #56 on: January 15, 2012, 08:24:45 PM »

The reason M-Audio hasn't updated is that the 2496 has been good enough or better than much of what has been out there since they came out.
Everybody else has finally caught up, as you can find 24-bit/96kHz cards just about anywhere for a good price, although M-Audio are still THE solution for decent-quality affordable home recording.
Personally, I have been drooling for a 2496 for YEARS (now the 192... sigh), sorry to hear yours is going south.

If you just want to listen to music, Creative has been leading that pack for many years, and they've evolved WAY beyond being just a gamer's soundcard, what with their THX-enabled home-theater grade X-Fi series, among others.
I haven't personally checked out their USB offerings, but I do know that USB audio has advanced quite a bit since the early days, and you can get the X-Fi Go! for about 30-40 dollars from Amazon, or spend up to 50 or so and get the X-Fi surround that's about the same size as a small external HD.
Check the product comparison chart here:
http://www.amazon.com/Cre...stem-SB1095/dp/B0044DEDCA

I've been told to avoid Behringer.

I have no idea what anybody else is doing, but I'm sure Sony and Phillips have something...
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superboyac
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« Reply #57 on: January 15, 2012, 09:10:13 PM »

The reason M-Audio hasn't updated is that the 2496 has been good enough or better than much of what has been out there since they came out.
Everybody else has finally caught up, as you can find 24-bit/96kHz cards just about anywhere for a good price, although M-Audio are still THE solution for decent-quality affordable home recording.
Personally, I have been drooling for a 2496 for YEARS (now the 192... sigh), sorry to hear yours is going south.

If you just want to listen to music, Creative has been leading that pack for many years, and they've evolved WAY beyond being just a gamer's soundcard, what with their THX-enabled home-theater grade X-Fi series, among others.
I haven't personally checked out their USB offerings, but I do know that USB audio has advanced quite a bit since the early days, and you can get the X-Fi Go! for about 30-40 dollars from Amazon, or spend up to 50 or so and get the X-Fi surround that's about the same size as a small external HD.
Check the product comparison chart here:
http://www.amazon.com/Cre...stem-SB1095/dp/B0044DEDCA

I've been told to avoid Behringer.

I have no idea what anybody else is doing, but I'm sure Sony and Phillips have something...

Interesting, thanks for the update.  Yeah, the 2496 is doing fine, I really don't have any problems.  The instability I described above may be caused by something else like the motherboard.  So I'm still happy with the card.  But my complaint was the plugin interface, I'd prefer something more modern like PCI express so I have more options of where to place it on my motherboard.

But, i was just at the music store...I'm probably going to get a breakout type box like USB or Firewire for my next one.  I'm always too paranoid with USB stuff.  I had a bad experience with M-Audio USB boxes about 10 years ago with the drivers and latency, but all that has become a non-issue from everything I hear now.  I saw a MOTU usb box that I thought was really neat and reasonably priced.
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Edvard
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« Reply #58 on: January 15, 2012, 09:20:19 PM »

MOTU is good stuff.
If it's recent and affordable, I'd get it.
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JavaJones
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« Reply #59 on: January 16, 2012, 12:01:54 AM »

Yes, beware USB for serious audio stuff. ASIO drivers are often not available, which means no support (without a kludge like "ASIO4All") in apps like Reason.

- Oshyan
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superboyac
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« Reply #60 on: January 16, 2012, 12:23:40 PM »

ok, paranoia is back...ON!  No USB for me if I can avoid it, see the review from amazon:
Quote
I purchased the MOTU UltraLite-MK3 Hybrid due to the added USB2 port and my need for more inputs and outputs. It appears to work perfectly fine in OS X (using FireWire), but booting into Windows, I failed to get it to work via USB on one system with Windows 7 64-bit and a Mac Pro running Windows XP 32-bit through Boot Camp. I've updated and re-installed drivers numerous times. Unfortunately I don't believe I'm alone with this issue since there are complaints about the unit's USB port on the MOTU user forums. Some people are recommending purchasing a FireWire card, but doesn't that defeat the purpose of getting the Hybrid? It's already past 30 days so I cannot return the unit (I unfortunately only discovered the broken USB functionality recently) and MOTU technical support is impossible to get to. The Phone Technical Support line is always busy and if you call the Customer Support line (which is separate), they tell you essentially to wait your turn (meaning busy signals for hours and no contact). If you want to file an online ticket, good luck on having someone look at it. MOTU does not supply PDFs of their manuals so if you lose the one you have, you are lost. I wish I hadn't bought this expensive piece of garbage.
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superboyac
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« Reply #61 on: January 16, 2012, 12:30:54 PM »

E-MU has some PCI-E offerings.
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Edvard
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« Reply #62 on: January 16, 2012, 01:52:17 PM »

Just to clarify, are you looking for a multi-track solution for home recording, or just looking for something better than on-board sound?
This topic has gone far enough off that it might warrant a new thread.

Just sayin'  embarassed
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superboyac
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« Reply #63 on: January 16, 2012, 02:02:11 PM »

Just to clarify, are you looking for a multi-track solution for home recording, or just looking for something better than on-board sound?
This topic has gone far enough off that it might warrant a new thread.

Just sayin'  embarassed
(ah...it's my topic, so i don't mind)
Well, I play my VST piano module live through the audio card's ASIO interface, so low latency is a priority.  When I tried Maudio products years ago that were USB connected, I couldn't get the latency down to acceptable levels.  Then I got this PCI 2496 card, and it worked just fine.  But that was also my really old 2002 computer, not the new one I have now (well, it's almost 3 years old now!).  So latency is a big deal to me in live playing.

Next comes the inputs/outputs.  I don't have too much of a need for many outputs, but the more inputs the better.  Most of the cheap stuff seem to have 2 inputs and outputs vary.  It must be easier to put outputs on a device than inputs, I don't know.  Or maybe most people like more outputs, and I'm the odd one.  Anyway, that's another thing I consider, but it's not as big of a deal as latency.  I do record using this card once in a while, but it's usually just me playing or maybe one other person.  I'm not planning on using it as a studio a lot, I have friends with much better equipment for serious recordings.

Then, the form factor.  Initially, I liked the idea of everything being contained on the internal card, so it all just stays with the computer.  But some of these more expensive cards come with breakout boxes.  I don't mind that, they just tend to be expensive.  That's different from a USB box because the actual card is still installed on the PCI-express slot.  A usb card resembles a breakout box, but the heart of the connection is the USB, and I don't think that's as reliable as those cold connector interfaces on the motherboard.  But I have no definitive proof of that.  however, I can across some forum threads and that amazon review today that put doubts in my head.

Now...I gotta go back to the music store.  The clerk accidentally refunded me for three returned cables, but I only returned one.  Sounds like he got chewed out a bit by the bosses.  I have to go back and sign something.  Rarely do those things turn out in my favor, though!!
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Edvard
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« Reply #64 on: January 16, 2012, 04:26:16 PM »

(ah...it's my topic, so i don't mind)
Just thinking about others that might be looking for the same info, but then again, that's what the search function is for, right?  Thmbsup

OK, so it sounds like you have a use for multi-track enough that two tracks are a hindrance, but you don't need high-end stuff, and latency is the chief consideration.
In that case then, I'd stay away from MOTU anyways, mostly because it would be overkill for what you're trying to do (although I agree nice gear is nice gear no matter what you're doing).

I totally agree, latency is the #1 concern in any audio setup, and I've never had gear good enough to go below about 5-8msecs (theoretically possible), which I hear is just below the threshold of audibility for most people.
http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/...at_apply_to_latency_times

Which brings us back to USB.
From what I've been able to gather, USB suffers more from jitter than straight latency, that is, varying latencies within one stream.
USB audio has always used the isochronous data transfer type,  (audio stream, no error-checking, no handshaking) which works out OK in ideal situations, but curiously, USB MIDI uses the bulk transfer type, which means it's just data; it gets through when it's asked for.
Not awful if your overall latency is good because you've got solid ASIO drivers, but bad when your computer needs to hit the hard drive for something and your MIDI request gets bumped to the back of the line.
That said, I've heard that RME's USB stuff works well, check them out:
http://www.rme-audio.de/e...cts_overview_firewire.php

If you're still set on external, FireWire is probably your best choice, especially for MIDI, although most FW devices include a little extra buffering to smooth playback, which can increase latency a bit.
Along with RME's FireWire options, Echo's Audiofire line should do you good there.
http://www.echoaudio.com/...udio_interfaces_index.php

If you're not absolutely sold on external stuff, then yes, PCI-e wins hands down over anything else; that is it SHOULD, but hardly anybody is making consumer-level PCI-e soundgear yet (oh, but it's going to be FUN when they do...), and I could only find two PCI-express product lines that had a MIDI interface.
http://www.rme-audio.de/e...w_pci_express_list#intern
http://www.esi-audio.com/products/maya44e/
^replaced by the Maya44Xte, which doesn't have a midi interface huh

Haven't checked on prices yet for those, but I imagine they ain't cheap.



Whew, haven't done that much research in a long while...  tellme
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superboyac
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« Reply #65 on: January 16, 2012, 05:14:41 PM »

Thanks Edvard!  I appreciate the research.

Yes, I've been eying the RME stuff lately.  Maybe I'll just break down and get it, it'll cost me over $1000.

I like Echo.  I've used their brilliant laptop card, the Indigo IO, for years now.  It's a beautiful product, simple, small, it just works.  But they haven't really updated much at all recently.  However, they definitely are one of those if it aint broke don't fix it type of companies.

That Maya one is new to me, looks interesting.  It's also relatively old (~2-3 years) but at least it's PCI-e.  Drivers support Win7 64, that's good.  Still, I'm tempted to just go RME at this point.  I've used the cheap stuff for years, maybe it's time to get serious?  I'll have to think about it.  Can't beat German quality.
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Edvard
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« Reply #66 on: January 17, 2012, 11:50:49 AM »

Oof! I forgot how expensive RME stuff can get  ohmy but I do agree with German engineering.  Thmbsup

More Firewire options:
Presonus Firebox - http://www.presonus.com/p...s/detail.aspx?productid=4
Edirol FA-66 - http://www.roland.com/products/en/FA-66/

Can't find the Maya44e ANYWHERE.
It's either sold out or unavailable, even on ebay.
That must mean it's good  tellme
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 11:59:12 AM by Edvard » Logged

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superboyac
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« Reply #67 on: January 17, 2012, 12:05:58 PM »

How is Firewire on the PC?  I know people say it's great on the Macs, but I've also heard to stay away from it on the PC, since Windows drivers for firewire tend to be not very good.  But I really don't know.
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« Reply #68 on: January 17, 2012, 12:10:22 PM »

FWIW I've used a dirt cheap dual-plug Starlogic firewire card in a cardbus slot (tells you how old it is) without any bad surprises under Windows XP. Looks like this:



Bought it new at CompUSA (when they were still around) for about $35. I still have it. It still works, and probably will as long as that Compaq junker it's plugged into continues to boot.
 Grin

My take is unless you have an immediate need for a 1394 plug, you'd do better with USB 3.0 since that's where most of this is going anyway. I don't know if the pro market is still in love with firewire. (Don't even see it used in Apple Mac shops that much any more.) But AFAIK, there's no longer a clear and compelling technical argument for it unless you have a device that either requires it, or only offers USB 1.0 as the alternative.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 12:23:29 PM by 40hz » Logged

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Edvard
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« Reply #69 on: January 17, 2012, 01:42:33 PM »

Looking up Firewire, it looks like the technology is expensive, both to manufacture and to license.
It costs 25 cents per device manufactured payable to the MPEG LA group, and the hardware itself costs $1-$2 per connector  ohmy .
No idea if that's physical costs or if it includes licensing; either way, it's a barrier to widespread adoption, and Apple gets a free ride because it was their idea, and so probably own or control many of the patents.

It's faster and more stable than USB2.0, so that's probably why it's still being used as an interface, as well as the fact that a lot of multimedia stuff is still being done on Macs.
Just a fact, no bias there...

USB3.0 is just now being finalized and supported, with Intel dragging their feet implementing it (supposedly in favor of the Thunderbolt interface) so it may be a while before we start seeing that.
See the last paragraph of USB_3.0#Availabilityw (kinda depressing, actually...).
When it DOES get implemented, USB3.0 is essentially a PCI-e interface over USB wires, so speed should be comparable and then the only deciding factor will be portability.
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« Reply #70 on: August 28, 2012, 09:23:50 PM »

I bought a ClipZip for my recent trip to visit family.. It's ok but i can't say I love it.

Only two reasons, but they are real thorns in my side:

First, it takes the "I'm smarter than you" approach to organizing audio files, which you see in newer audio manager.  This means it doesnt matter how *I* organize the folders i put on the machine -- it's going to organize them based on found mp3 tags into Artist/Album/etc. This usually works fine but occasionally is a truly painful obstacle to finding stuff.

Second, a function that i find critical to saving battery life is the auto sleep function, where it goes to sleep after an hour or whatever of playing.  The ClipZip has such a function but it resets to being off every time it's powered on.  Not cool.

Haven't tried Rockbox so I have no idea if it would address any of those issues.
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superboyac
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« Reply #71 on: August 28, 2012, 10:03:19 PM »

I bought a ClipZip for my recent trip to visit family.. It's ok but i can't say I love it.

Only two reasons, but they are real thorns in my side:

First, it takes the "I'm smarter than you" approach to organizing audio files, which you see in newer audio manager.  This means it doesnt matter how *I* organize the folders i put on the machine -- it's going to organize them based on found mp3 tags into Artist/Album/etc. This usually works fine but occasionally is a truly painful obstacle to finding stuff.

Second, a function that i find critical to saving battery life is the auto sleep function, where it goes to sleep after an hour or whatever of playing.  The ClipZip has such a function but it resets to being off every time it's powered on.  Not cool.

Haven't tried Rockbox so I have no idea if it would address any of those issues.
Yeah, I'd say you need to put Rockbox on it.  I'm not a fan of the stock firmware either.  Rockbox should definitely take care of the folder organization issue, and I think it's also pretty flexible on the sleep options.  Also, they still say it's not available on the zip yet, but the only thing not working is insignificant things like solitaire or something.  Which reminds me, I've been meaning to put rockbox on my neglected zip.  I've been using the plus.  I'll post updates.
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« Reply #72 on: August 28, 2012, 10:11:04 PM »

Ok i'm off to try Rockbox. thumbs up
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« Reply #73 on: August 28, 2012, 10:26:16 PM »

Rockbox installed fine, seems to work well and solve both of my complaints.  Thank you for this thread  thumbs up
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superboyac
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« Reply #74 on: August 29, 2012, 01:12:13 PM »

Rockbox installed fine, seems to work well and solve both of my complaints.  Thank you for this thread  thumbs up
woo!  your very welcome.
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