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Last post Author Topic: Steve Jobs is dead.  (Read 34759 times)

wraith808

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2011, 11:31:01 AM »
Steve Jobs showed little inclination to use his personal wealth for philanthropic purposes.

And, strangely for a self-professed Buddhist, he did not embrace environmental concerns

Says it all really, what a horrible human being he was.

Why does that make you a horrible human being?  Different views (that don't affect anyone outside of your not doing the same as they do) makes you a horrible human being?

Renegade

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2011, 12:11:04 PM »
Why does that make you a horrible human being?  Different views (that don't affect anyone outside of your not doing the same as they do) makes you a horrible human being?

I probably shouldn't post this...

I think that the line of logic is that when you have far, far, far more than you can possibly use, and you won't help people that really need it, then... you're a douche.

I f**king love Bill Gates if for no other reason than he's... Beyond words. We need more people like Bill Gates. The good he is doing? Wow. He's a real idol. He's the kind of person that I wish I could be. Steve Jobs? Not so much so. Steve was brilliant. But brilliance doesn't always make you admirable in that way.

Along with the 16,000 children that starved to death today, that people like Bill Gates are trying to help out with and people like Steve Jobs are not trying to help with, the world lost, in addition to those 16,000 children under the age of 5 that starved to death... the world lost a corporate titan that exemplified greed in all it's glory. There is no better example of an uber-performing, vicious CEO than SJ. He raised Apple to infinite heights. Hooray. And what was the cost? And what *good* did he do?

I will cry when Bill Gates dies. I will cry when Warren Buffet dies. They are truly great men.

I think the measure of a man/woman is not the heights to which he/she can achieve. The measure is what heights he/she can elevate others.



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Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

f0dder

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2011, 12:22:46 PM »
Steve Jobs showed little inclination to use his personal wealth for philanthropic purposes.

And, strangely for a self-professed Buddhist, he did not embrace environmental concerns

Says it all really, what a horrible human being he was.
WTF this is the most heartlesssssss comment I read today.
Oh, I'll try to best that, then:

Little Stevie is off to the iCloud, and iDon't care - it's time for iPartying.
- carpe noctem

wraith808

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #28 on: October 06, 2011, 12:26:27 PM »
Why does that make you a horrible human being?  Different views (that don't affect anyone outside of your not doing the same as they do) makes you a horrible human being?

(Hidden part in prior post)


Point taken.  But that's your opinion.  Saying that you don't have a high opinion of what a person believes, has done, and has left behind is one thing.  To say that someone his a horrible human being because of those things, especially when (1) you don't know what he/she has done behind the scenes, but only second hand accounts, and (2) it's just because they didn't do something when you judge that they could have is my problem with the whole 'horrible human being' bit.  It's a bit beyond the pale, IMO.

Oh, I'll try to best that, then:

Little Stevie is off to the iCloud, and iDon't care - it's time for iPartying.


The funny thing about these statements/sentiments is the fact that he's beyond what any of our statements about him are, which means that they say nothing about him or his state, and a lot about us... hmmm?

Eóin

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #29 on: October 06, 2011, 12:32:44 PM »
Why does that make you a horrible human being?  Different views (that don't affect anyone outside of your not doing the same as they do) makes you a horrible human being?

It's not the only reason why I dislike him, but it cemented my opinion of him.

Renegade

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #30 on: October 06, 2011, 12:44:58 PM »
Point taken.  But that's your opinion.  Saying that you don't have a high opinion of what a person believes, has done, and has left behind is one thing.  To say that someone his a horrible human being because of those things, especially when (1) you don't know what he/she has done behind the scenes, but only second hand accounts, and (2) it's just because they didn't do something when you judge that they could have is my problem with the whole 'horrible human being' bit.  It's a bit beyond the pale, IMO.

I can see that.

Too soon...
But in the absence of any evidence, I just go with Ockham's Razor. Ultimately, we only have 2nd and 3rd and 4th hand accounts of events. For your #2 there, well, dunno. I didn't state the "horrible human being" thing (though I did state something else above). But I don't see him as a "hero". I've stated who I think are real heroes.

Ultimately we don't owe anyone else anything. But that's what separates a lot of us. That's one of the reasons why nobody can help but utter "Mother Theresa" with the utmost reverence and respect. Taking is one thing. Giving is another. Nobody has any respect for taking. Giving on the other hand? A different story. We revere those that do.

Steve? Giving? No evidence. Ockham's razor. Game over for me.



Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

wraith808

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #31 on: October 06, 2011, 12:50:27 PM »
Why does that make you a horrible human being?  Different views (that don't affect anyone outside of your not doing the same as they do) makes you a horrible human being?

It's not the only reason why I dislike him, but it cemented my opinion of him.

In my opinion, there's a big difference between 'dislike' and 'he's a horrible human being'.  Personally, I reserve that for very few people that have done things that no amount of spin or explanation or other mitigating things they've done, it can't account for nor excuse the horrendously terrible things that they've done.  The toll of their decisions is lives spent- not lives not save, but spent- on the fires of their ego, hate, etc.

From what I know of his policies and the decisions that he made in relation to Apple and his business practices, there are several things that I don't agree with.  No matter how much money that I personally make, I will always do things outside of myself, that don't directly benefit me, and I can't see how someone could decide differently if they have even greater resources.  But those are personal decisions, and I personally can't see calling someone a 'horrible human being' because they don't espouse those same beliefs.

That's where the divide comes for me...


I can see that.
 
(more behind the cut in the referenced post)


I can see that, and I totally agree.  In my opinion, no matter what you work for/are given, there are those less fortunate and in less than ideal circumstances, they could be you, so I give.  Not as much as I think I should, nor I realistically could, but there it is.  So I don't look at any deeds that aren't in service as merit-worthy.  But truthfully, that's not the kind of world we live in.  That's why people who are *not* in service make the most money.  And that's why most (all?) governing parties are the way that they are.

tomos

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #32 on: October 06, 2011, 01:10:15 PM »
I wish the guy luck (whatever is going on for him now, I dont think Apple/etc is important any more anyways...)

a few other comments/thoughts -
  • a person and what they do are different things (and no, I'm not making excuses for anything there)
  • why wouldnt he be afraid of dying?? (related to Superboyacs quote above)
  • I think to be a successful CEO or top-manager [of a corporation at any rate] you need to be driven, obsessive, workaholic. Why should Jobs be any different - well, I know, there's loads of possible reasons why he could have been different, but he wasnt...
  • I think he was a great innovater-inventor - most inventors are just working on what has been done before anyways
  • His great "strengths" were also probably his greatest weaknesses (e.g. think control-freak)
  • Giving is often over-rated. I mean it's often done by people who have already screwed the world - and really, if they want to give, they could start by trying to introduce fair work standards/wages etc as discussed elsewhere here on dc
Tom

f0dder

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #33 on: October 06, 2011, 01:12:55 PM »
I think he was a great innovater-inventor
More like a polisher.
- carpe noctem

tomos

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #34 on: October 06, 2011, 01:25:21 PM »
I think he was a great innovater-inventor
More like a polisher.

yeah,
maybe the 'great' was going too far
Tom

nosh

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #35 on: October 06, 2011, 01:33:16 PM »
Wow! This thread is generating more hate than the OBL is dead thread. Way to go, DC!  :Thmbsup:

Edit: /sarcasm
« Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 01:54:22 PM by nosh, Reason: Clarification: IANA Asshole. »

Stephen66515

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #36 on: October 06, 2011, 01:53:02 PM »
Steve Jobs was a man like any other.  But because he didn't (Publicly, or in his name?) donate massive sums of money to "help" the 3rd world (Can anybody truly say that any amount of money is actually helping them? - Things seem no different now, than they did 25 years ago...), people are hating on him.

I am not a fan of Apple, nor do I own (or WANT to own) any of their products...but all this said, it doesn't make Steve; Evil!

His death, must have been one of a very painful nature, as I imagine most cancer cases would be, and I would not wish that on my worst enemy.

On the note of him not 'Giving To Charity' for any of you people who are "Hating" on someone who just passed...for reasons NONE OTHER than his lack of charitable nature:

      Remember, that when you die, no matter what the cause...If you did not give at least 25% of your net income to charity (Even if you had created tens of thousands of jobs {no pun intended}...)...you shall be remembered ONLY for not giving money to UNICEF or w/e.

Congratulations to some of the people on this thread for showing their true nature...In really shows, in true light, just how fucked up some people's perspective of the world, really is...Well done indeed.

R.I.P Steve Jobs, 1955 - 2011
You will be missed

fenixproductions

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #37 on: October 06, 2011, 02:16:24 PM »
Please correct me if I am wrong but... isn't compassion some part of Buddhism? To help people?
For me it is not the problem of actually not giving zillions of dollars to others but identifying with some ideology (being "proud" of it) and not following it. It is like some vegetarians, I met, wearing leather shoes.

BTW A joke about whole situation was born at my work.

Do not read if you may feel offended
- Hey guys! Steve is not really dead!
- What?
- Yes! It appears that doctor was holding his hand the wrong way.
- Seems to be too short antenna problem.


f0dder

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #38 on: October 06, 2011, 02:16:38 PM »
On the note of him not 'Giving To Charity' for any of you people who are "Hating" on someone who just passed...for reasons NONE OTHER than his lack of charitable nature:
"NONE OTHER"? That part of the equation is just a bonus bit, a final "oh yeah, in addition to being a nasty piece of sh*t business-wise, he's also a scumbag in person"... not the sole reason for not mourning his death.
- carpe noctem

Eóin

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #39 on: October 06, 2011, 02:37:25 PM »
But because he didn't (Publicly, or in his name?) donate massive sums of money to "help" the 3rd world (Can anybody truly say that any amount of money is actually helping them?

The situation is of course much more compilacated to just shipping money into the countries. But I can truly say it helps, I've been in Kenya working with people who are on the frontline as it were. For €30ish they have they can, and do, take a kid out of the dumps (literally, the kids are living like wild animals in the dumps) and feed and educate that kid for a year.

The toll of their decisions is lives spent- not lives not save, but spent- on the fires of their ego, hate, etc.

I concede that this is a very philosophical point. Is murdering someone more or less 'evil' than choosing not to save them. There is no easy answer to that question.

Anyway, as f0dder suggests the charity thing is but one example, what I hate is the way he did business. Personally I'm not the type to celebrate greed and revere those who do whatever it takes to make money.

[edit] slight tweak of bad grammar
« Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 06:06:43 PM by Eóin »

Stoic Joker

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #40 on: October 06, 2011, 05:49:29 PM »
I did not know the man personally.
I did not know the him professionally.
I am not related to him in any way, kind, sort, form, or fashion.
I do not recognize any of the alleged innovations (like colored plastic) as having any impact on my life or livelihood what-so-ever.
I also do not feel the need to make lite of his passage.
I simply do not care.

40hz

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #41 on: October 06, 2011, 06:33:47 PM »
I also do not feel the need to make lite of his passage.

How refreshing!  :)  :Thmbsup:


Eóin

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #42 on: October 06, 2011, 06:43:21 PM »
Honestly, this is one of those times where the old saying "If you have nothing nice to say then say nothing at all" would probably be very appropriate. Unfortunately the insanity of the fanbois pushed me over a threshold where I felt the real counterpoint was more than necessary.

c82b2ffc6c3c472db8ece7c6f0531f68_7.jpg

Carol Haynes

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #43 on: October 06, 2011, 06:51:14 PM »
What's the betting all the Apple Stores have church organs and choirs installed by next week?

This religious nonsense really gets me depressed!

My favourite quote (to lighten the mood)

Quote
He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy

40hz

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2011, 07:10:49 PM »
What's the betting all the Apple Stores have church organs and choirs installed by next week?

This religious nonsense really gets me depressed!

My favourite quote (to lighten the mood)

Quote
He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy

Funny. I never even considered him a naughty boy. Just a fairly smart guy in the right place at the right time, who had the balls to take big chances and the luck to have them pan out before anybody figured out he was bluffing just as much as anybody else.

He also had an uncanny knack for hiring people vastly more creative and brighter than himself who were quite happy to have their achievements attributed to Mr. Jobs. In this respect he keeps company with American steel magnate Andrew Carnegie who (allegedly) wrote his own now famous epitaph:

Here lies a man who knew how to enlist the service of better men than himself.


wraith808

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #45 on: October 06, 2011, 07:58:39 PM »
I had to post this- Steve Jobs gets one last poke at Bill Gates:

0Vv1j.jpgSteve Jobs is dead.


Renegade

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #46 on: October 06, 2011, 10:25:00 PM »
I had to post this- Steve Jobs gets one last poke at Bill Gates:
 (see attachment in previous post)


Hahahaha~! That was cute~! :)

In other news... This is just nutty:

http://www.theregist...jobs_funeral_picket/

Quote
Members of the Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) have announced their intention to protest at the funeral of Steve Jobs, in a Twitter message sent via an iPhone.

The group, best known for their rainbow "God hates fags" signs and web page, are claiming the action is in response to Jobs not using his wealth to promote their interpretation of the Bible and for Apple being consistently voted one of the most gay-friendly employers. The group’s grievances and its original protest plans were posted from iPhones, something the Twittersphere has been quick to point out.

Now THOSE people truly are horrible people.
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Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Target

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #47 on: October 07, 2011, 01:13:32 AM »

Jibz

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #48 on: October 07, 2011, 02:37:43 AM »
Much like Stoic Joker, I do not have any feeling of relating to the man, so while I feel for his family and friends, he was just another rich CEO to me.

What surprised me was what Google+ had turned into yesterday, and I imagine other social networks as well. It was filled with people, who I am sure never met the guy, posting black and white photos of him holding his hand to his face, looking like he was pondering how to make lasting world peace, or posting that quote of his about not living someone else's life, going "WE WILL MISS U!!!".

It feels like there is a lot of hype involved in posting about this (not unlike Apples products), and you have to go into the comments there to get a real feel for what people thought.

/rant

Spoiler
I was not going to post this one for a week, but since fenixproductions opened the ball:

"Ironically, Steve disproved the whole 'an Apple a day'-theory."


mahesh2k

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #49 on: October 07, 2011, 03:43:13 AM »
I think sign of success is that you get love and rotten tomatoes (hate) for what you do in life. I also think that Steve is lucky guy for getting that much attention and was never ignored. Most of us spend our days and nights making big corps more rich but will never get the attention (it's not needed either for many introverts). I'm not going to make any personal comments on his death with relation to charity and his religion.

Only thing i can say about charity and these big CEO's is that bill gates and buffets are ignored by media even though we all know their contribution back to society. Bill is very active for AIDS awareness and other health related cause but people simply ignore that and this proves the theory of "what's in it for me". Rich and upper middle class mourning on his death were apple users and so it's obvious that their voices will be heard on social media. Ask any lower middle class computer user or person below that about steve jobs, answer will surprise you.I feel sad because he inspired many small business in and out of united states. That's all. As for people comparing Steve jobs with Edison, he selected the class of people for his products, edisons innovations were not based on any particular part of the food chain. That answers everything. So i'm not going to give that guy any more attention that he deserves.