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Last post Author Topic: Steve Jobs is dead.  (Read 34730 times)

wraith808

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #100 on: October 26, 2011, 03:13:51 PM »
I'm going to bow out at this point, because apparently his 'reality distortion field' goes both ways, as it seems that some can't see the negative, and some can't see the positive.  Few are completely either, and IMO, he doesn't fall into that few.

And one last point I'll add- most people can't say that they truly innovated *anything* without dependence on *any* other technologies, so take that for what its worth.

40hz

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #101 on: October 26, 2011, 03:26:03 PM »
And one last point I'll add- most people can't say that they truly innovated *anything* without dependence on *any* other technologies, so take that for what its worth.

+1

Science historian James Burke based a career and three educational TV series (Connections, Connections² and Connections³) on that very same insight.

 :Thmbsup:

Carol Haynes

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #102 on: October 26, 2011, 04:17:15 PM »
Very true - but you can equally argue that some people don't truly invent at all, they develop and adapt what is already there.

One of the arguments in the UK is that UK inventors (and Scottish in particular) are some of the best in the world, in terms of actual inventions, and have had a huge influence on the development of world technology (disproportionate to the size of the UK population). However it seems to take others to develop the ideas to become a global phenomenon and get the credit!

Jobs's genius is that he took existing ideas, packaged them in some good looking design and then convinced the world that you have to buy a new MP3 player, a new phone and now a new tablet at least once a year. If only he could have bottled it ....

mwb1100

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #103 on: October 26, 2011, 04:22:13 PM »
apparently his 'reality distortion field' goes both ways, as it seems that some can't see the negative, and some can't see the positive.

Now that's probably the most insightful thing I've seen on this thread!

40hz

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #104 on: October 26, 2011, 06:41:01 PM »
IMHO most of the reality distortion comes from the desire of many of his admirers (and to some extent Mr. Jobs himself) to be portrayed as something other than what he actually was: a businessman.

doggy.jpg

I think once more people realize and the accept the fact that Steve Jobs was a businessman - and not an inventor, programmer, designer, or engineer - both his role, and his contribution to Apple (and to the industry in general) will become easier to put into perspective. And more likely be discussed in a civil and rational manner a result.

Just my 2¢
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 06:55:01 PM by 40hz »

IainB

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #105 on: October 26, 2011, 07:57:41 PM »
This is an interesting thread, as it shows that many people seem to have applied a lot of their mental attention and cognitive surplus to the subject (Steve Jobs). It may be true, as @wraith808 says:
Quote
apparently his 'reality distortion field' goes both ways, as it seems that some can't see the negative, and some can't see the positive.  Few are completely either, and IMO, he doesn't fall into that few.

I am embarrassed to admit that I know virtually nothing about SJ except that he seems to have been involved with Apple, was probably a millionaire, and was highly regarded as an entrepreneur/marketing guru for Apple.

I learned more about him only lately though. I was surprised to read in a post elsewhere yesterday that someone had died (I forget who, but he was apparently a well-known programmer) and that this was the "2nd loss of a great programmer in a week" or something like that - referring to Steve Jobs, anyway. I had not known that SJ was a great programmer, though that seems to be a subject of some debate in this thread.

I was also surprised to read in some of the market hype that has been released/leaked preceding the publication of his biography that his biographer claimed that SJ was quite happy to rip people (customers) off from a monopoly position, and hated Android/Google and said he "would fight Android with his last dying breath" - OWTTE.
If that was all true, then it sounds like the poor guy was not in a happy place in his head. I can only try to imagine what it must feel like to have that sort of greed, aggression, hate and anger boiling up inside me. Not healthy at any rate. Probably all useful characteristics in a businessman though, I suppose.
I also read that the litigation v. Android is already underway. Apple will certainly miss his driving force. SJ's death seems to have  left a sort of psychic vacuum, and Apple may find it more difficult to carry his legacy of that litigation forward without the impetus of his psychogenic and emotional energy.

kfitting

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #106 on: October 26, 2011, 08:04:39 PM »
I'm going to bow out at this point, because apparently his 'reality distortion field' goes both ways, as it seems that some can't see the negative, and some can't see the positive.  Few are completely either, and IMO, he doesn't fall into that few.

And one last point I'll add- most people can't say that they truly innovated *anything* without dependence on *any* other technologies, so take that for what its worth.

Two very insightful comments!  (and in some circumstances, possibly inciteful)  Thanks wraith.

Renegade

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #107 on: October 26, 2011, 09:00:18 PM »
And one last point I'll add- most people can't say that they truly innovated *anything* without dependence on *any* other technologies, so take that for what its worth.

There are few true giants out there, and everyone else stands on their shoulders.

I would put Descartes, Liebniz, Pascal, Einstein, Tesla, and a few others in the category of true giants. But still, even their works relied on past math and science.


But let's have a quick question...

Why does this debate/argument/whatever NOT happen for other CEOs like Larry Ellison or Bill Gates?

If all Apple devices suddenly and magically disappeared from the planet, not much would happen. If all Oracle and Microsoft products disappeared, the planet would grind to a halt very quickly. It would be a disaster of biblical proportions.

Yet, nobody ever talks about Ellison or Gates...
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IainB

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #108 on: October 27, 2011, 12:37:39 AM »
I don't think Ellison or Gates have croaked yet, have they?

Renegade

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #109 on: October 27, 2011, 01:40:57 AM »
I don't think Ellison or Gates have croaked yet, have they?

Hahahah~!

No, but even with Jobs still alive, you never heard any kind of banter about them like you did for Jobs.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

nosh

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #110 on: October 27, 2011, 02:12:56 AM »
The Donationcoder-Steve Jobs song  8)


(Well, we LOVE talking about him, anyway.  :P)


Stoic Joker

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #111 on: October 27, 2011, 06:29:21 AM »
My question is, why is it the Steve Wozniak keeps getting shoved into a corner?? He's the one that actually created the launch-worthy Apple II ... Jobs just decided to package it in a smooth plastic shell, because he thought some veg-a-matic he saw at an appliance store looked sexy.

There is nothing negative about saying Jobs was brilliant at marketing, he quite obviously was. Technology innovator ...Meh... Not so much. He was more Billy Mays than Ben Franklin.

Renegade

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #112 on: October 27, 2011, 06:54:42 AM »
My question is, why is it the Steve Wozniak keeps getting shoved into a corner?? He's the one that actually created the launch-worthy Apple II ... Jobs just decided to package it in a smooth plastic shell, because he thought some veg-a-matic he saw at an appliance store looked sexy.

There is nothing negative about saying Jobs was brilliant at marketing, he quite obviously was. Technology innovator ...Meh... Not so much. He was more Billy Mays than Ben Franklin.

Y'know, Ellison, Gates, and Wozniak all have something in common... They didn't have the vision and foresight to have Issey Miyake create 100 black turtleneck sweaters... That must be it.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

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f0dder

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #113 on: October 27, 2011, 08:37:31 AM »
No, but even with Jobs still alive, you never heard any kind of banter about them like you did for Jobs.
In the case of Gates, it's probably because that - even though he's done some nasty things, and MS is a big nasty bully - the person Bill Gates seems to have a lot of redeeming qualities... and doesn't think of himself as a super very important demigod.

Larry Ellison? May he suffer in hell. whOracle is right up there with crApple in terms of pure evil.
- carpe noctem

Renegade

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #114 on: October 27, 2011, 08:55:38 AM »
Larry Ellison? May he suffer in hell. whOracle is right up there with crApple in terms of pure evil.


No... Tell us how you *really* feel! ;D


In the case of Gates, it's probably because that - even though he's done some nasty things, and MS is a big nasty bully - the person Bill Gates seems to have a lot of redeeming qualities... and doesn't think of himself as a super very important demigod.


It's kind of sad that we never focus on the good, but rather on the negative.

Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

nosh

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #115 on: October 29, 2011, 06:17:01 AM »
This article has some serious WTF elements.
 
The Most Anal CEO Ever

Quote
Even when he was barely conscious, his strong personality came through. At one point the pulmonologist tried to put a mask over his face when he was deeply sedated. Jobs ripped it off and mumbled that he hated the design and refused to wear it. Though barely able to speak, he ordered them to bring five different options for the mask and he would pick a design he liked. The doctors looked at Powell, puzzled. She was finally able to distract him so they could put on the mask. He also hated the oxygen monitor they put on his finger. He told them it was ugly and too complex. He suggested ways it could be designed more simply. "He was very attuned to every nuance of the environment and objects around him, and that drained him," Powell recalled.

I'm going with the "he was delirious" line of thought. :|

Renegade

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #116 on: October 29, 2011, 11:10:44 AM »
The WTF doesn't end there. :)

http://www.smh.com.a...-20111028-1mmrr.html

Ten quirky details from the Steve Jobs bio

Quote
Jobs thought different … about deodorant.
Jobs cared about tiny details, and the best biographies are all about them - the impressionistic traits that really shape your understanding of a whole person. In Jobs's case, one of those would have to be the fact that he spent decades insisting his vegan diet would naturally clear up any body odor issues. All you need is fruit. It was an early but persistent example of what Isaacson calls Jobs's “magical thinking.”

It gets wonkier.
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Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

JavaJones

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #117 on: October 29, 2011, 08:05:06 PM »
Oh Steve...

Honestly I think it's difficult or impossible to get to where he got without basically being a dick and a weirdo. I have no problem with him having been those things, it just irritates me when people ignore the complexities and give and take in him and see only the good (or the bad, for that matter). Anyway, enough has been said on this.

Jobs was not a programmer by the way, you're thinking of Dennis Richie, responsible for the C programming language, and the following week John McCarthy, "father" of AI and Lisp. Both died recently, both arguably as influential as Jobs (in other, less visible ways), neither garnered 1/100th the media attention.

But I mostly just wanted to say hooray for James Burke. :D

- Oshyan

40hz

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #118 on: October 29, 2011, 10:22:07 PM »
It gets wonkier.

And progressively harder to believe in some places.

But then again, this is from the authorized biography. So I'd expect a there was a certain amount of 'design' that went into it. Like so many other biographies.

In the immortal words of Huckleberry Finn:

"You don't know about me without you have read a book by the name of The Adventures of Tom Sawyer; but that ain't no matter. That book was made by Mr. Mark Twain, and he told the truth, mainly. There was things which he stretched, but mainly he told the truth."   from The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
 8)


Steven Avery

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Steve Jobs - in memoriam
« Reply #119 on: October 30, 2011, 07:38:35 PM »
Hi Folks,

My dad ripped off the junk the nurses put on him at the hospital, and walked out, and although he did not suggest design improvements, I will sympathize with Steven Jobs on that one.  (My pop is 97.)

The situation with his health program and the pancreatic cancer is complicated.  From what I understand he bypassed the more radical treatments (think Gerson therapy or Nicholas Gonzalez) .. and by going for the liver transplant he basically compromised any possibilities, because of the immune suppressing drugs that go with the transplant to prevent rejection.  

Why did he get the cancer in the first place if he was trying to eat healthy ? Difficult question. 

Shalom,
Steven Avery

IainB

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #120 on: October 30, 2011, 10:08:47 PM »
Why did he get the cancer in the first place if he was trying to eat healthy ? Difficult question. 

The Q is maybe not so difficult to answer - maybe SJ created the cancer in himself.
Deepak Chopra postulated this years ago in his book Quantum Healing.

This was what I was alluding to:
I was also surprised to read in some of the market hype that has been released/leaked preceding the publication of his biography that his biographer claimed that SJ was quite happy to rip people (customers) off from a monopoly position, and hated Android/Google and said he "would fight Android with his last dying breath" - OWTTE.
If that was all true, then it sounds like the poor guy was not in a happy place in his head. I can only try to imagine what it must feel like to have that sort of greed, aggression, hate and anger boiling up inside me. Not healthy at any rate. Probably all useful characteristics in a businessman though, I suppose.

f0dder

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Re: Steve Jobs is dead.
« Reply #121 on: November 18, 2011, 04:04:42 PM »
Why did he get the cancer in the first place if he was trying to eat healthy ? Difficult question.
Carcinogens in the acid he was dropping? :-)
- carpe noctem