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Author Topic: Building Windows 8: I need longer arms!  (Read 3830 times)

Curt

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Building Windows 8: I need longer arms!
« on: September 08, 2011, 05:14:09 PM »
From this video it seems to me that Microsoft wants me to touch my screen all of the time. Quotation from the end of this video: "This is the new version of Windows, it's gonna run on laptops, it's gonna run on desktops, PCs with ( ? ) keyboard, ... , it's gonna run on everything." As it is now, I can barely reach my monitor. I guess Windows 8 will make me need longer arms!!!

http://blogs.msdn.co...indows-explorer.aspx http://www.eightforums.com/





Surely he must be (babbling and) talking about cell phones?
 :tellme:
« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 05:24:20 PM by Curt »

Carol Haynes

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Re: Building Windows 8: I need longer arms!
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2011, 05:31:15 PM »
Questions:

1) How many people are going to buy touch screens and chuck out perfectly good LCDs?
2) How many businesses will buy this? Business lethargy killed Vista (along with a crap OS) but there has been a big reluctance to move to Win 7 too - do MS really thing business will be interested and if not they have lost the biggest part of their market share.
3) How many people will still want this after the novelty wears off?

Yes on tablets and phones, but laptops and desktops?

I know quite a few people with all in one computers with touch screens but I have yet to see anyone use it once they have have had it more than a week!

barney

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Re: Building Windows 8: I need longer arms!
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2011, 09:51:09 PM »
Let's see ... I'm gonna rush out and replace all four (4) of these 24" monitors, along with the smaller ones?

Hm-m-m-m.  Prolly not.  I'm with Carol on this one, mostly ... tablets, phones, touch makes sense ... touch on laptops could make sense for some applications,  but most business usages of which I'm aware require lots of text, very little navigation.  Browsing might benefit, maybe some graphics programs.  But can't you just see AutoCad by touch?  (How finely can you calibrate your fingers?  I have trouble with Sudoku or Crosswords on a seven (7) inch Nook  :P.)

rgdot

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Re: Building Windows 8: I need longer arms!
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2011, 10:39:40 PM »
This will become 'an additional layer' type thing. 90% of serious PC user will turn it off and move straight to traditional desktop. There is a reason the desktop has changed little and it's not because of lack of innovation its because it works.

steeladept

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Re: Building Windows 8: I need longer arms!
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2011, 11:24:10 PM »
I am trying really hard to reserve judgement, but really, how bad do they want to follow Apple when they try to turn everything into an iProduct?  Touch everything?!?  I don't get it.  The one thing I do note, however, that makes me think it is likely to either be a big fail or a me too, is that they are STILL trying to make a single platform for all uses.  That is why Apple won the tablet market they were trying for yeaarrrssss prior to generate.  Apple IOS may be a pared down version of OSX, but it is still NOT OSX.  It is it's own platform.  If Microsoft will let go of the "One platform to rule them all!" attitude, they *might* be able to start making headway again.  Heck, they dumped it for the XBox and look how successful that turned out.  Maybe not clear and away winner, but certainly a worthy rival to the Playstation and generally considered better than the Wii.  And based on an OS that was made for an MP3 player!  The only thing I see coming from this if it stays as we see on the first looks is they will alienate their base without having the user-base to tackle Apple's biggest stronghold - the mobile phone/tablet market.

If you own stock in Microsoft, watch this OS VERY carefully.  It will either be a dud that will propel Microsoft onto the ash-heap of history, or keep them viable for the next release.  Either way, it doesn't have what it takes (yet anyway) to propel it the way XP & 7 have.  At best it will be to 7 what XP was to Windows 2000.  

P.S.  I really do like most Microsoft products, so I really hope I am wrong here.  It really is too early to tell, but that is my gut instinct from what they have shown so far.

nosh

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Re: Building Windows 8: I need longer arms!
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2011, 02:29:13 AM »
"They are designed for touch, but of course they work great with mouse and keyboard as well..."

I think the tiles feature makes sense, you can get just the right bits of info from all your apps in one place. I can see casual users finding this very useful. And once MS irons out the creases and adds a good amount of flexibility, there's no reason for advanced users to not find it useful.

PS: Touch screens for your desktop PC = ridiculous.

nudone

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Re: Building Windows 8: I need longer arms!
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2011, 02:35:15 AM »
Isn't windows 8 the mandatory rubbish o/s that microsoft have to release after each decent o/s?

I think we can all safely ignore 8 and just wait for 9 to come along, though, by then, it will be named windows solo or something in an attempt to distance the numbered name 8.

In fact why don't we just call it Windows "Hate" right now as everyone is going to despise it.

nudone

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Re: Building Windows 8: I need longer arms!
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2011, 02:47:14 AM »
Okay, I've watched the video now and think it looks good, but only from a tablet perspective, makes the iPad look absolute crap in comparison. So, I guess, Microsoft is saying they believe in tablets in a big way and after seeing their new gui I can see why.

But yeah, for a pc and mouse/keyboard, completely pointless - other than to look impressive to mom and pa when they go to the store to buy a new machine.

(My parents still can't use a mouse properly.)
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 02:56:04 AM by nudone »

Curt

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Re: Building Windows 8: I need longer arms!
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2011, 03:33:20 AM »
http://blogs.msdn.co...indows-explorer.aspx
-notice the last line:

Quote from: MSDN 29 Aug 2011
Goals of the new Windows Explorer

We set out to accomplish three main goals with this new version of Explorer:

1)    Optimize Explorer for file management tasks. Return Explorer to its roots as an efficient file manager and expose some hidden gems, those file management commands already in Explorer that many customers might not even know exist.

2)    Create a streamlined command experience. Put the most used commands in the most prominent parts of the UI so they are easy to find, in places that make sense and are reliable. Organize the commands in predictable places and logical groupings according to context, and present relevant information right where you need it.

3)    Respect Explorer’s heritage. Maintain the power and richness of Explorer and bring back the most relevant and requested features from the Windows XP era when the current architecture and security model of Windows permits.


We evaluated several different UI command affordances including expanded versions of the Vista/Windows 7 command bar, Windows 95/Windows XP style toolbars and menus, several entirely new UI approaches, and the Office style ribbon. Of these, the ribbon approach offered benefits in line with our goals:

    Provides the ability to put the most important commands in very prominent, front and center locations.

    Makes it easy to find commands predictably and reliably. Every important file management command could be given a home in the ribbon, and customers would always know where to look for them.

    Exposes a large set of commands (~200) in one easy and consistent experience and organizes commands into scenario-focused groups without the use of nested menus, popups, dialogs, and right-click menus.

    Aids command identification with support for grouping, a variety of button sizes and icons, and aids deeper investigation with live previews and expanded tooltips.

    Takes a similar approach to Office, Microsoft Paint, and Windows Live Essentials, which means that many of our customers will be familiar with the model and not have a lot to learn.

    Provides a consistent, reliable UI that doesn’t degrade over time like traditional toolbar and menu-based user interfaces do. See Jensen’s earlier blog on this topic from the development of the ribbon.


These strengths fit well with our three goals – the ribbon would allow us to create an optimized file manager where commands would have reliable, logical locations in a streamlined experience. The flexibility of the ribbon with many icon options, tabs, flexible layout and groupings also ensured that we could respect Explorer’s heritage. We could present a rich set of commands without removing access to previously top-level commands, something we knew was really important to our customers.

As it so happens, while not primarily a touch interface, the ribbon also provides a much more reliable and usable touch-only interface than pull-down menus and context menus (we'll have lots more to say on the topic of touch, of course—as a reminder, check out this Windows 8 video--we definitely know there is a lot of interest but also want to make clear that we know how important keyboard and mouse scenarios are to power-user scenarios of file management).

Edited:
Windows 8 might end up being good!
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 03:41:20 AM by Curt »

Stoic Joker

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Re: Building Windows 8: I need longer arms!
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2011, 06:41:30 AM »
Isn't windows 8 the mandatory rubbish o/s that microsoft have to release after each decent o/s?

I think we can all safely ignore 8 and just wait for 9 to come along, though, by then, it will be named windows solo or something in an attempt to distance the numbered name 8.

In fact why don't we just call it Windows "Hate" right now as everyone is going to despise it.

I too am trepidatiously trying to reserve judgment, but am quite leery of the touchy feely UI idea. So just in-case it is necessary... Lets make it's nickname a bit triendier (ick), and call it Windows H8.

Stephen66515

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Re: Building Windows 8: I need longer arms!
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2011, 06:47:40 AM »
On the same note as "Nobody is gonna use this"...do you mean like nobody ever uses the Win+Tab key in Windows 7 for that 3D slidey crap...except to maybe impress someone who has never seen it before?

nudone

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Re: Building Windows 8: I need longer arms!
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2011, 10:05:47 AM »
call it Windows H8.

Heheheheh, perfect.

Carol Haynes

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Re: Building Windows 8: I need longer arms!
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2011, 04:03:53 PM »
My biggest question is how many years did they spend on the killer OS? And what did we get? Vista ...

superboyac

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Re: Building Windows 8: I need longer arms!
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2011, 04:59:10 PM »
I have high hopes for Windows 8.  I'm not necessarily in the camp that thinks MS is caving to Apple pressure.  I think they realize they have to have touchscreen capabilities that are better than the win7 version.  But there is a bug difference between an ipad and a Windows tablet even if everything looks exactly the same superficially.  With Windows, we'll have unfettered access to files and folders, which will change the tablet game dramatically in a way Apple will never do.  We'll have tight integration with our desktop software for that reason alone.  And that just means we'll be able to do a whole lot of cool things with it.  I'm really looking forward to it.

steeladept

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Re: Building Windows 8: I need longer arms!
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2011, 06:05:31 PM »
I too have high hopes and truly hope rgdot is right - that is will just be window dressing that can be turned off.  Microsoft has a habit of trying to force things on users lately (just like Apple), pushing their vision of Touch everywhere.  I do see Touch as an important thing - no argument there - but it doesn't have to be enabled everywhere.  And where it isn't enabled, it shouldn't force me to give up real estate to finger-sized icons forcing me to go to multiple screens, which in turn more or less force touch interface.  It actually relegates the mouse/keyboard to a secondary input device rather than primary.

Don't get me wrong, like I said before, I generally like Microsoft products and I hope this is just them showing off what is new rather than showing what it is.  I just don't hold out high hopes for that.  The ribbon interface was proof that they are willing to trash user preference (again like Apple).  As for Windows H8; remember XP, the most loved version of Windows to date started as the "bad" OS where Windows 98 ruled the desktop and Windows 2000 ruled the server room.  Both of those were considered the best OS of their time, and XP was the "down" one (OK, there was ME on the desktop side, but nothing after 2000).  Also, Vista was SO MUCH a disaster - that sting is still raw in Microsoft's mind.  I think 8 will be generally good for it's target market (Tablets).  I am just concerned they will try to shoehorn it onto other platforms beyond it's target...aka Desktop/Laptop.

rgdot

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Re: Building Windows 8: I need longer arms!
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2011, 06:24:07 PM »
No matter what fancy resolutions and displays (Apple's retina display for example) handhelds or tablets can not be serious work machines - unless you are willing to walk around with a 20" tablet in hand. "Real" (not extrapolated/enhanced/etc.) screen space rules. You may say what about  touch displays where one sits and uses touch, I would say if you are sitting then why not connect an input device.
My point, touch may be fine and all but I would limit it usability to 10" at most and doing serious work with a 10" just doesn't seem right to me.