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Author Topic: NANY 2012 Release: Ethervane Echo  (Read 76474 times)
tranglos
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« Reply #250 on: March 02, 2012, 08:32:59 PM »

I can confirm it doesn't work. Stickes seems to be doing something special with its windows - unlike normal application windows, they do not acquire focus when they become "uncovered", and without focus they cannot receive input.

All right, I have a fix. Echo will now attempt to restore focus to the application that was active before Echo was invoked.

The fix will work only if Echo is activated via the hotkey. It will not work if Echo gets activated by clicking its icon in the tray, or pressing Alt+Tab etc. To make it always work, Echo would have to install a system-wide hook, and that's probably overkill, as it impacts the performance of all running applications .

The next release will be able to paste clips into Stickies, though.
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tranglos
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« Reply #251 on: March 02, 2012, 08:35:03 PM »

The tabs size automatically to fit the labels. I could set them to a fixed width, but then they may be too short if a view has a longer name.
If you have the option to change manualy the font type and size from the labels, and then the tabs automatically fit to the fonts? embarassed

Is this a question or a suggestion? (I'm not sure what you mean). Yes, if you changed the font of the labels, the tabs would become smaller or larger accordingly.
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sakiskom
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« Reply #252 on: March 06, 2012, 01:39:33 PM »

Is this a question or a suggestion? (I'm not sure what you mean). Yes, if you changed the font of the labels, the tabs would become smaller or larger accordingly.
We have this option now? Because i don't know how to do it.
If don't, then i hope to see this option on a newer version.
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tranglos
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« Reply #253 on: March 14, 2012, 08:31:16 AM »

Is this a question or a suggestion? (I'm not sure what you mean). Yes, if you changed the font of the labels, the tabs would become smaller or larger accordingly.
We have this option now? Because i don't know how to do it.
If don't, then i hope to see this option on a newer version.

No, it's not available yet. I'll see if I can add it.

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sakiskom
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« Reply #254 on: March 14, 2012, 10:09:18 PM »

OK. Cool
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robbero
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« Reply #255 on: March 19, 2012, 05:11:06 AM »

I still have troubles in ethervane echo.

- It does not minimize at startup even when minimized at startup is enable (please see attachment)
- It does not show the right icon when I'm not connected to the clipboard (please see attachment)
  (ethervane echo is not connteted to the clipboard but the tray icon show that it is connected)


* ethervane_output.jpg (1.32 KB, 24x39 - viewed 467 times.)

* ethervane_startup.jpg (10.92 KB, 498x51 - viewed 131 times.)
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DanWilson
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« Reply #256 on: March 19, 2012, 02:30:41 PM »

I may have a bug in my Ethervane Echo program. When I click certain clips, the clip does not move to the clipboard. Instead, I get a message in the bottom right hand part of the window chrome saying "Can not load clip from database".

I reinstalled the program today and this did not help the issue.
I am using 1.1.1 Build 122 (Stable)

Check the Attachment for specifics:


* CanNotLoadClipFromDatabase.png (71.98 KB, 582x593 - viewed 134 times.)
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tranglos
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« Reply #257 on: March 19, 2012, 02:51:37 PM »

I may have a bug in my Ethervane Echo program. When I click certain clips, the clip does not move to the clipboard. Instead, I get a message in the bottom right hand part of the window chrome saying "Can not load clip from database".

Thanks, Dan. This shouldn't ever happen. The error would imply that something is wrong with the database - there are some clips which are listed in the main table but are missing their actual data (in another table). I'll investigate.

Does it always occur with the same clips? For example, after the error occurs once, if you restart Echo and re-try the same clip, does it happen again, or is the clip copied?

Is there anything characteristic about these clips? (Only short clips, only new ones, only from Firefox - anything like that)?

Was there a situation where Echo crashed or was forcibly closed, for example during database maintenance? That should not really cause the error you are experiencing, because all db operations are transacted, but it's my only guess at the moment. Since all operations are performed in transactions, the db should never lose consistency like this, but clearly this has just happened.

(If the database doesn't contain anything very personal, you could email the db file to me at marek  @  tranglos    com. That way I could see if the database is missing the clip data as I suspect. Or you could of course remove any personal data from the db and use Tools -> Maintain database to compact it, as long as the db still contains some clips that won't load.)
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DanWilson
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« Reply #258 on: March 19, 2012, 09:33:54 PM »

It seems to happen with the same clip. Restarting the app does not seem to help, neither does uninstalling/reinstalling.

I even deleted the clip, then recopied it into the clipboard but I got the same error. I'll email you the same database.
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tranglos
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« Reply #259 on: March 19, 2012, 11:01:14 PM »

I even deleted the clip, then recopied it into the clipboard but I got the same error. I'll email you the same database.

Thanks for the database, it helps a lot. I can confirm your observations as well as my initial suspicion.

Some clips in the database have one of two problems:

(a) the main clip entry exists, so that the clip is displayed, but there is no actual data for the clip (the clipboard formats), i.e. Echo has nothing to put on clipboard.

(b) the main clip entry exists,  and some of its data exists, but the database has the clip's data only in HTML format (or only the rich text format). These clips can be copied (no error message in the status line), but they cannot be edited (there will be an additional error message if you try) and are therefore nearly useless as well.

As to why the database is in this state, I don't know yet. Echo requires that at least the plain text format or unicode text format is present for each clip. These formats cannot be deleted in the configuration and are always stored. If at least one of these two formats is not present, Echo will not even store such a clip in the database. In addition, these formats had to be present when Echo captured these clips, because without them Echo would not be able to display the clips in the list - and it does that.

This tells me that the clips are captured correctly, otherwise they could not even be displayed. Something happens later that causes those required formats to be removed, after which the clips become unusable.

One possibility is that there is a bug in the database maintenance routines (they changed somewhat in the current version). Perhaps Echo is deleting certain data it should not be deleting. I will recheck my sql code and will report of I find anything else.

I'm afraid the clips that won't load cannot be salvaged, as their data doesn't exist in the database. For the moment, I suggest that you disable database maintenance entirely to prevent any more clips from losing their data: Tools -> Preferences -> Database maintenance, and set AutomaticMaintenance to False. This means the clips will accumulate for a while, but this should not be a problem for at least several weeks. (You can always delete excess clips manually if you like, just as long as you don't use the Database Maintenance feature).

Meanwhile, I will try to find a fix asap.

I am also puzzled by this:

Quote
I even deleted the clip, then recopied it into the clipboard but I got the same error. I'll email you the same database.

If you tried to capture the same clip without deleting it first, then Echo might ignore it as a duplicate (depending on settings), so that the missing clip would still be missing. But if you physically deleted the clip before capturing it again, then the clip should be stored in full and behave correctly immediately after capturing. Can you please confirm that this is not the case?

A bug in the db maintenance cannot explain this last behavior, since the maintenance has to be performed for the bug to show up.

So the most important question right now is: does the bug (cannot load a clip) occur immediately after the clip has been captured? Or does it only occur at some later time (perhaps after Echo has performed db maintenance)?
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tranglos
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« Reply #260 on: March 19, 2012, 11:37:41 PM »

To Dan and everyone using the latest version of Echo (1.1.1):

Please read! Yep, we have a red alert here.

There is an important bug in this version that causes some data loss under certain conditions. As a result of the bug, some clips lose their data and become unusable when Echo performs database maintenance. The bug was introduced in version 1.1.1 and affects only recent installations, but just in case I ask everyone using Echo to apply a temporary fix.

Please do the following in Echo:

  • Click Tools -> Available clipboard formats.
  • Without changing anything in the dialog box, click OK.

This will refresh the list of formats stored in the database, and will add the required CF_TEXT and CF_UNICODE formats if they are not already listed in the database.

As an additional precaution, you can also temporarily disable automatic maintenance in Echo by doing the following:

  • Click Tools -> Preferences -> Database maintenance.
  • Set AutomaticMaintenance to False.

This should prevent any further data loss until I release an update (in one or two days).

How do you tell if you are affected by the bug?

You are affected, if you experience the bug described in this post:
http://www.donationcoder....27849.msg282383#msg282383

You are affected, if the latest version (1.1.1) is the first version you ever installed, or if you have deleted and re-created the database since installing this version.

Apologies! And thanks to Dan for reporting this. A fix is coming, but for now, the two procedures described above will keep everyone's installation safe from the bug.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 06:48:21 AM by tranglos » Logged

tranglos
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« Reply #261 on: March 20, 2012, 08:27:48 AM »

A proper new version has been released. Information in this post is no longer current and the attachment has been removed.

I have attached a temporary fix for the bug described above. It will not bring back the damaged clips, but it will prevent more clips from being affected by the bug. Please download, unzip and replace the existing executable with the version contained in this file.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 04:16:46 PM by tranglos » Logged

tranglos
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« Reply #262 on: March 25, 2012, 04:18:35 PM »

New release March 25 (Version 1.1.2)

This release fixes important bugs. Please download and install this release, especially if you are using version 1.1.1 (published February 21).

See the top post in this thread for download links.

New in this release:


FIXED: A significant bug that would cause loss of certain clips when Echo performed database maintenance. This bug affected only certain installations, but was quite severe when it occurred.

FIXED: Minor change to allow Echo to paste clips into certain applications with non-standard windows that do not automatically regain focus (e.g. Stickes). Echo should now be able to paste clips into such applications, but only if Echo runs minimized and only if it is activated by the activation hotkey (not with the mouse).


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tranglos
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« Reply #263 on: March 25, 2012, 04:23:28 PM »

I run an application called 'Stickies' which is a very well known , very popular desktop sticky / notes application. However whereas Ditto will paste directly into a desktop 'sticky' note, EE will not - other than using a 'manual' Ctrl-V. Any thoughts on that?

Please try the latest release. Echo should now be able to paste clips into Stickies, but only if you activate it using the activation hotkey (not the mouse).

It should also be detecting the UK English dictionary now, please let me know if this works for you.
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silat
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« Reply #264 on: April 06, 2012, 03:40:11 PM »

Win 7 64

Ethervane will not show in systray at restart.
I have set it to show "icon and notification".
If I manually do that then it shows.
But at system restart it is hidden again.
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tranglos
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« Reply #265 on: April 06, 2012, 04:47:39 PM »

Win 7 64

Ethervane will not show in systray at restart.
I have set it to show "icon and notification".
If I manually do that then it shows.
But at system restart it is hidden again.

This (what shows up in the system tray) is entirely controlled by Windows, not by applications. All Echo does is instruct Windows to show its icon in the system tray, but it has no control over how it is displayed (icon, notifications only etc).

I'm not seeing the problem you describe on Windows 7 32-bit. Perhaps the 64-bit Windows treats 32-b it apps in this way, I'm afraid I have no idea.
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Adm
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« Reply #266 on: April 18, 2012, 12:56:06 PM »

Please help me.
I copy a few words from the webpage, then select them in the Echo and insert in a web form, but the word order is wrong. How do I get when inserting the words they have been allocated in the order in which I copied them?
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tranglos
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« Reply #267 on: April 18, 2012, 01:57:18 PM »

Please help me.
I copy a few words from the webpage, then select them in the Echo and insert in a web form, but the word order is wrong. How do I get when inserting the words they have been allocated in the order in which I copied them?

Hi Adam. I'm not sure I understand. Can you please describe what you are trying to do in more detail? Are you selecting more than 1 item in Echo?

If you are, then by default Echo copies items in chronological order (newest first), even if they are displayed in some other other, e.g. alphabetically. You can change this so that Echo will copy multiple items in the order in which they are displayed: click Tools -> Preferences -> Pasting clips. Change the option called MultiPasteOrder to mpoAsDisplayed.

This only applies in case you are copying multiple items at a time. (Otherwise I can't see how Echo could change the order of words - it is not possible inside a clip).

However, if you are trying to fill out a web form, Echo will not help you fill out several fields at a time (e.g put the username in one field and the password in another field ine one go). All Echo does is put text on the clipboard.

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cameos
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« Reply #268 on: April 20, 2012, 05:26:04 PM »

dear tranglos,

Can you still consider to allow user to customize [Close] button behavior? either click [Close] to minimize to tray, or at least ask for confirmation to exit? I have many windows floating on screen, there were couple of times I mistakenly clicked on Echo's [Close] button and lost tracking of clipboard.

Thanks.

Edit:
tranglos, I just found the "minimize to tray" option in preferences. Thanks again.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 06:24:47 PM by cameos » Logged
tranglos
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« Reply #269 on: May 09, 2012, 09:43:38 AM »

New release May 9 (Version 1.1.3)

See the top post in this thread for download links.

New in this release:

FIXED: A bug that would cause clip use count to be unnecessarily incremented in some situations,. e.g. when capturing duplicate clips.

No idea how I missed this one for so long. I must be getting old! Use count for all clips should now be maintained correctly.

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bob99
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« Reply #270 on: May 09, 2012, 12:13:16 PM »

Thanks for the update.
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RobC
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« Reply #271 on: May 16, 2012, 05:01:28 AM »

I notice that your program, has the ability to paste directly into the Active application.
That takes a bit of doing, as the clicking of the systray, steals the focus (Active'ness), and Windows does not place the focus (Active'ness) back to the previously Active Window, when the clicked systray program hides itself.
No doubt some API's are involved, to accomplish that feat.
Could you list those for me.

I have a similar need for a VB6 program (not clipboard related)

Thanks,
Rob

PS When pasting from a program (such as yours), I like a single click.
I notice that one can also highlight any clip, with a right click (a left click not needed for highlighting), so could you provide an option for a single left click to paste a clip.
I appreciate that mode may not be everyone's cup of tea, so the default could remain the same as you have it now. And those like me would go to Options to tick a checkbox, and would naturally understand the implications.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 05:10:28 AM by RobC; Reason: Extra option setting request » Logged
tranglos
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« Reply #272 on: May 16, 2012, 08:55:39 AM »

I notice that your program, has the ability to paste directly into the Active application.
That takes a bit of doing, as the clicking of the systray, steals the focus (Active'ness), and Windows does not place the focus (Active'ness) back to the previously Active Window, when the clicked systray program hides itself.
No doubt some API's are involved, to accomplish that feat.
Could you list those for me.

The problem you describe totally applies. There are many ways of activating the app - via the hotkey, click on the task bar icon, click on the "tray" (notification area) icon, alt-tab or mouse click in the program window. AFAIK, there is no solution that can handle all these cases. At least in Delphi, the earliest notifications the app receives about being activated come too late, when the previously active app is already inactive. As you found out, the best you can get in some cases is the tray window, not the previously focused application.

My idea was to give up. I don't try to detect what app was active, since it is doomed to failure most of the time. Instead, I let Windows figure it out, since this is what Windows does anyway. When user pastes a clip in Echo, Echo de-activates and hides itself, then sends a sequence of keypresses. These keypresses go to whatever window becomes active after Echo disappears. This happens to be the application that was active at the time Echo was invoked.

Now, I realize that *theoretically* this may not always be the case. Another app might pop up a window while user is working in Echo. However, I have not experienced this even once in over a year of using Echo myself, and I've had no bug reports to that effect. It helps that in recent versions of Windows inactive applications are not permitted to grab focus.

So far I've only had one issue with my non-solution: applications that actively refuse to regain focus. One such app was reported earlier in this thread. What happens is:

1. App X has focus
2. User invokes Echo and pastes a clip.
3. Echo minimizes...
4. ...but app X does not regain focus, even though it is again the foreground app.

It's important to realize that the problem in (4) happens because app X is specifically designed not to grab focus (and you can't switch to it via alt+tab, for example). Such apps are thankfully rare.

The only thing I could do in this case was to give up again and add a check for the active application, the check that doesn't really work. Well, in Echo it does work if user activates Echo using the global hotkey, but not when Echo gets activated in any other way. So Echo doesn't rely on this value. If Echo is activated via hotkey *and* it can get a window handle that is not the desktop, then it will try to make that handle foreground before pasting the clip. It seems to be working with "Stickies" (the problem app in this case) and doesn't hurt anything, as far as I can tell.

Other than such odd-behaving apps, my non-solution seems satisfactory.

On edit, forgot to add: I know that some similar apps try to monitor the focused window changes as they happen. I haven't even explored this possibility, because my personal "prime directive" is to do as little as necessary to get the desired result. When Echo sits idly in the tray, it is really idle; I don't like the idea of constantly monitoring what other windows are doing. It would require either a very frequently firing timer (which would often miss, anyway) or installing a system hook. Either way is too intrusive for my liking.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 09:02:39 AM by tranglos » Logged

RobC
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« Reply #273 on: May 16, 2012, 09:14:58 AM »

Thanks for prompt response.
I am using XP Pro SP3
The only way that I am invoking your program is by clicking the SysTray(Notification Area) icon.
In some of your reply you mention 'invoke your application' often meaning Hot Key etc, but not via a SysTray  click.
Whereas the only way that I am invoking your program is by clicking your SysTray icon.
Doing that, your program is quite happily doing the following -
- Pasting into FF URL textbox
- Pasting into Notepad, EditPadLite
- Pasting into Wordpad, Jarte

So it appears to me that you have solved, what I have not solved.
Could you list the steps that you are taking, between a user leaving their active application, to double clicking a clip.

Thanks,
Rob
PS Any chance of the single click option ?
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tranglos
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« Reply #274 on: May 16, 2012, 10:03:25 AM »

Doing that, your program is quite happily doing the following -
- Pasting into FF URL textbox
- Pasting into Notepad, EditPadLite
- Pasting into Wordpad, Jarte

So it appears to me that you have solved, what I have not solved.
Could you list the steps that you are taking, between a user leaving their active application, to double clicking a clip.

As I explained in my previous message - Echo does absolutely nothing with regard to other apps and their windows. No matter how you bring up Echo, Echo will lose focus and minimize when you paste a clip. When that happens, Windows gives focus back to whatever application was active at the time you clicked the icon in the SysTray. Echo doesn't know what app that it, but Windows knows it and does the right thing. Echo just waits a short moment to give Windows time to do its work, and then sends a kepyress (Ctrl+V or Ctrl+Ins). Windows is responsible for delivering that keypress to whatever application is now active.

Quote
PS Any chance of the single click option ?

I'll have to think about it. It could be very annoying, I imagine.
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