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Author Topic: NANY 2012 Release: Ethervane Echo  (Read 87081 times)
jash
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« Reply #125 on: January 11, 2012, 10:46:21 AM »

Ethervane Echo works great!  I really like it and have a comment and a question.

1.  As requested earlier in this forum, I too would like an "always-on-top" feature.  I like to keep the clipboard open on top of other applications while I work.  Setting the MinimizeOnDeactivate to "False" works to some degree, but requires me to lose some screen real estate.

2.  Is there a way to change the settings so that clips are pasted in plain text by default when I single-click on a clip?

Many thanks.
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tranglos
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« Reply #126 on: January 11, 2012, 12:33:31 PM »

bugs
when trying to add cf_dib or other formats to the store-in-echo-list, the application crashes when clicking the ok-button (Error [EEchoInternalError]: TClpFormatRegistry: Clipboard format "cf_dib" (type: System) already exists in the registry)

Confirmed. It seems that at the moment it is impossible to add a format that's defined in the system. I'll fix this ASAP.

Quote
feature requests
close to tray on pressing the X

Added to wishlist.

Quote
possibility to configure the directory for saving the database
possibility to configure the directory for saving the application-settings (ini)

Could you explain why this would be useful? It'd help me design the best way to implement this. Echo already uses a fairly involved logic to figure out where to store the database and config (are we portable? Are we running from a removable drive? Is the removable drive read-only? etc.), and I have to be careful making any changes to these parts of the code.

Also, using the portable version you can already have the config and data stored wherever you want, just by installing Echo there.

Note that it is quite impossible to specify in options where the config file should be located, because Echo has to read the config file first to load that setting :) I could only store this preference in the registry, but as a rule I'd rather not touch the registry at all (and I've obeyed this rule so far). If not the registry, I could add this setting to the "master.config" file (there's a Help topic about it), but in that case the setting would apply to all users running Echo on a computer.

Would it be sufficient if I added a command-line argument to specify the config and database directories? You could add it to the shortcut used to start Echo.

Quote
possibility to change shortcuts like F2

What would you use instead? I can easily add more than one shortcut for some functions. A complete keyboard customization would take more time. And there would be certain limitations, e.g. you cannot assign certain keys which are used when editing clips in-place or are necessary to navigate the tree, etc. It could be more trouble than it's worth.

Quote
do not autopaste items on pressing enter - only copy them to the clipboard (like ctrl+shift+c)

Disable pasting entirely, or just swap the function of (Shift+)Enter and (Shift+)Ctrl+C?

Quote
always show date and time for last saved items instead of e.g. "8 minutes ago"

Preferences -> Display -> Friendly dates -> set to False

Quote
do not block capturing when editing an item internally or externally. sometimes it is useful to capture a part of an existing clip and save it to a new clip

Yeah, this is a to-do, but I need some time to do it properly. Capturing clips from inside Echo may sometimes have undesired side-effects. E.g., when the in-place editor is active, capturing a clip will close that editor and jump to the latest clip, etc., and I don't think I can stop that from happening (AFAIK it is not possible to add an item to the list while another item in the list is being edited).

Thanks! Now I'll go look for that bug...
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tranglos
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« Reply #127 on: January 11, 2012, 12:39:25 PM »

Ethervane Echo works great!  I really like it and have a comment and a question.

1.  As requested earlier in this forum, I too would like an "always-on-top" feature.  I like to keep the clipboard open on top of other applications while I work.  Setting the MinimizeOnDeactivate to "False" works to some degree, but requires me to lose some screen real estate.

I'll do that as soon as I figure out exactly what is broken in Delphi XE's component library. In earlier versions it was enough to toggle a flag to make a window stay on top. But if I do that in XE, all dialog boxes show under the main window, which makes the whole application unusable. Nothing I've tried to far has worked, so right now I am simply unable to add this feature. Need to do more research. (And yes, there are some workarounds to be found on StackOverflow and elsewhere, but they don't work in Delphi XE.)

Quote
2.  Is there a way to change the settings so that clips are pasted in plain text by default when I single-click on a clip?

Single-click? Then you could not navigate the tree (at least not with the mouse). You **can** have Echo paste as plain text by default (on Enter or double-click):

Preferences -> Pasting clips -> Priority formats -> select sfPlainText
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tranglos
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« Reply #128 on: January 11, 2012, 01:25:03 PM »

    when trying to add cf_dib or other formats to the store-in-echo-list, the application crashes when clicking the ok-button (Error [EEchoInternalError]: TClpFormatRegistry: Clipboard format "cf_dib" (type: System) already exists in the registry)[/li][/list]

    Found and fixed. I'll upload a new release by the end of the week, but for now you can just replace your ethervaneecho.exe with the one attached to this message.

    * echo-bugfix-build106.zip (3732.01 KB - downloaded 90 times.)
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    jash
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    « Reply #129 on: January 11, 2012, 08:54:44 PM »

    2.  Is there a way to change the settings so that clips are pasted in plain text by default when I single-click on a clip?

    Single-click? Then you could not navigate the tree (at least not with the mouse). You **can** have Echo paste as plain text by default (on Enter or double-click):

    Preferences -> Pasting clips -> Priority formats -> select sfPlainText


    Thank you tranglos for your quick reply.  I stand corrected.  I had meant "double-click" in my original post.  In any event, your recommendation to select "sfPlainText" does not seem to work for me:  clips are still being pasted with original formatting rather than in plain text.  Unless you are aware of a bug with "sfPlainText", I suppose the problem may well be on my end.  I'm running Ethervane Echo in portable mode on a Win7 64bit machine.
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    Sascha
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    « Reply #130 on: January 12, 2012, 01:27:31 AM »

    Quote
    Found and fixed. I'll upload a new release by the end of the week, but for now you can just replace your ethervaneecho.exe with the one attached to this message.
    Great support - thanks a lot!

    Quote
    Quote
    possibility to configure the directory for saving the database
    possibility to configure the directory for saving the application-settings (ini)
    Could you explain why this would be useful? It'd help me design the best way to implement this. Echo already uses a fairly involved logic to figure out where to store the database and config (are we portable? Are we running from a removable drive? Is the removable drive read-only? etc.), and I have to be careful making any changes to these parts of the code.
    I use some automatic mechanisms for my backups. Therefore I store all my application-configurartions in special folders.

    Quote
    Would it be sufficient if I added a command-line argument to specify the config and database directories? You could add it to the shortcut used to start Echo.
    Yeah, that would be really nice smiley

    Quote
    Quote
    possibility to change shortcuts like F2
    What would you use instead? I can easily add more than one shortcut for some functions. A complete keyboard customization would take more time. And there would be certain limitations, e.g. you cannot assign certain keys which are used when editing clips in-place or are necessary to navigate the tree, etc. It could be more trouble than it's worth.
    I don't think it would be practicable to use more than one shortcut for one function. Let's leave it as that Wink

    Quote
    Quote
    do not autopaste items on pressing enter - only copy them to the clipboard (like ctrl+shift+c)
    Disable pasting entirely, or just swap the function of (Shift+)Enter and (Shift+)Ctrl+C?
    I do not need that (I like what Ditto does). From my point of view you may disable it entirely Wink But I think i'll be better to make it customizable.

    Quote
    Quote
    always show date and time for last saved items instead of e.g. "8 minutes ago"
    Preferences -> Display -> Friendly dates -> set to False
    Oops - I have overseen that - sorry.

    Again - thanks for this wonderful application and that great support!
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    Sascha
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    « Reply #131 on: January 12, 2012, 01:53:29 AM »

    It's me again smiley

    It is possible now, to add file-formats to the list - but echo does not save items of those formats Sad

    I added cf_dib, cf_dibv5 and cf_bitmap. Those formats where listed on the 'Formats currently on clipboard'-List after copying a bitmap from my screenshot-tool.
    But I am not able to change the text-only-property for those entries. It will always be reset to 'Yes'. Maybe that will be the reason.

    (please see the attached screenshot)


    * Zwischenablagebild.png (9.96 KB, 655x426 - viewed 138 times.)
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    tranglos
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    « Reply #132 on: January 12, 2012, 07:06:07 AM »

    I added cf_dib, cf_dibv5 and cf_bitmap. Those formats where listed on the 'Formats currently on clipboard'-List after copying a bitmap from my screenshot-tool.
    But I am not able to change the text-only-property for those entries. It will always be reset to 'Yes'. Maybe that will be the reason.

    Hi Sascha! I'm afraid I will disappoint you this time, but if you go back to the OP where Echo is described, you'll see that Echo only captures text (unlike Ditto). It's also mentioned at the top of the help file, though I should think of a way to make it even more pronounced.

    More precisely, Echo can capture any format you define in that dialog box, but it will ignore clips that don't contain text as well. (And it is possible for clips to contain both text and bitmaps, e.g. Excel copies data like that). So Echo can capture cf_dib, but only if the clip contains cf_text or cf_unicodetext as well. Clips that don't have either of these formats are ignored, because Echo could not display them or search for them of they do not contain text.

    This is a fundamental concept for the whole program, so it's not a feature I can add.

    If you do need images, may I suggest you try Mouser's Clipboard Help and Spell? It captures all clips, including images, and is more suitable for storing clips long-term.
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    tranglos
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    « Reply #133 on: January 12, 2012, 07:40:09 AM »

    I had meant "double-click" in my original post.  In any event, your recommendation to select "sfPlainText" does not seem to work for me:  clips are still being pasted with original formatting rather than in plain text.  Unless you are aware of a bug with "sfPlainText", I suppose the problem may well be on my end.  I'm running Ethervane Echo in portable mode on a Win7 64bit machine.

    This should totally work. One thought: are you perhaps trying to paste a clip immediately after capturing it? If so, that may not work, because Echo will not change the contents of the clipboard on the fly like that. The feature will only work when you "physically" go to Echo, select and clip and press Enter, double-click it, etc. (see also footnote at end of this post :-)

    If this is what you are already doing, could you check two things for me? First, go to Tools -> Available clipboard formats (or press Ctrl+F), and look at the list on the right:



    When you use the "...as text" versions of Copy and Paste, Echo selects all the formats marked as "Yes" in that list. By default four formats are marked as being "text" as in the screenshot. Echo should display "No" in that column for all other formats. If any other formats have "Yes" next to them, select those format s and click the "Toggle text" button below.

    If this looks the way it should, then please try this procedure:

    1) Let Echo capture a clip that contains formatting (from Word, etc). You can check the same dialog box as above to make sure that "rich" formats are present (the list on the left this time).

    2) Now copy or paste the clip as you normally would (press Enter in Echo).

    3) Go back to the same dialog as before (press Ctrl+F) and check what formats Echo has just put on the clipboard. The list on the left should look like this:



    In the screenshot you can see that Echo has placed only the four basic text-only formats on the clipboard (plus two internally used formats that don't actually contain any data). If there is a bug in Echo, you should see some unwanted formats here.


    (the promised footnote:)You can also use the new "paste as text" hotkey feature, added in the latest release. This is a system hotkey that will paste current clipboard contents as text-only in any application, without going through Echo. It works by removing all other formats from clipboard. This hotkey is enabled by default: Shift+Wn+Insert.

    « Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 07:53:40 AM by tranglos » Logged

    Sascha
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    « Reply #134 on: January 12, 2012, 07:40:35 AM »

    I can live with that restriction Wink
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    Hermano
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    « Reply #135 on: January 12, 2012, 08:27:42 PM »

     :(Help! The help file headings show but none contain information. My system is a dual-core PowerSpec running Win 7 Professional 64bit, 4GB RAM, etc, etc. Any help gladly and deeply appreciated. Thank you very much in advance for your time and trouble in the timely resolution of this issue. Hermano2020@verizon.net
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    PhilB66
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    « Reply #136 on: January 12, 2012, 09:13:10 PM »

    :(Help! The help file headings show but none contain information. My system is a dual-core PowerSpec running Win 7 Professional 64bit, 4GB RAM, etc, etc. Any help gladly and deeply appreciated. Thank you very much in advance for your time and trouble in the timely resolution of this issue. Hermano2020@verizon.net

    Right-click on ethervaneecho.chm (to open the file properties) and click on "Unblock" button.

    Oh, edit your post to delete/hide your email address.
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    tranglos
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    « Reply #137 on: January 12, 2012, 09:22:49 PM »

    Right-click on ethervaneecho.chm (to open the file properties) and click on "Unblock" button.

    Thanks Phil, this one is new to me!

    Also, Hermano: see if you can open other programs' help files in the .chm format. You may need to have a version of Internet Explorer installed, though this is probably not required on Windows 7.

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    easye
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    « Reply #138 on: January 13, 2012, 11:16:13 AM »

    I've been a long time user of Ditto myself. I really like a lot of what you have done with this app.

    Is there a setting anywhere to have the clip time NOT be updated on pasting? I've searched through the settings and couldn't find one that did this (but I may have missed it).

    Ditto had a setting in the General tab called "Update Clip Time On Paste". I would always uncheck that myself when installing Ditto.

    This is helpful for me when I do a lot of clipping in one app, then switch to another app and want to paste these various clips. When using Ethervane Echo, I will paste one of the clips, it then automatically goes up to the top and I then have to go searching back down the list to see where the next one was.

    Thanks. Keep up the good work.
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    joiwind
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    « Reply #139 on: January 13, 2012, 12:14:37 PM »

    Ditto had a setting in the General tab called "Update Clip Time On Paste". I would always uncheck that myself when installing Ditto.

    This is helpful for me when I do a lot of clipping in one app, then switch to another app and want to paste these various clips. When using Ethervane Echo, I will paste one of the clips, it then automatically goes up to the top and I then have to go searching back down the list to see where the next one was.

    + 1  Thmbsup
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    .: I use K-Meleon - the browser you can control - but I love Pale Moon too :.
    tranglos
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    « Reply #140 on: January 13, 2012, 01:18:41 PM »

    Is there a setting anywhere to have the clip time NOT be updated on pasting? I've searched through the settings and couldn't find one that did this (but I may have missed it).

    It's not possible at the moment, but I see your point. I will add this in the next release.
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    tranglos
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    « Reply #141 on: January 14, 2012, 09:38:29 AM »

    feature requests
    close to tray on pressing the X

    Done. Will be available in the next release.

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    Sascha
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    « Reply #142 on: January 14, 2012, 01:22:29 PM »

    feature requests
    close to tray on pressing the X
    Done. Will be available in the next release.

    Thanks a lot, Marek!
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    rashford
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    « Reply #143 on: January 15, 2012, 07:42:12 AM »

    Hi Tranglos. Regarding the "Short" view on my 64-bit computer: I tried your suggestions but still got the same result (short clips aren't displayed on the Short tab). Relevant screenshots are shown below.


    The "All Clips" view show that there are short clips


    The "Short" view doesn't show any clips
    [ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ]

    Here's the "Short" view filter
    [ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ]

    Thanks for adding the "Close to system tray" feature to the wish list

     cheesy
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    rashford
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    « Reply #144 on: January 15, 2012, 07:45:44 AM »

    Hi Tranglos,

    OOps! (should have previewed it first - stoopid!)

    The "All Clips" view show that there are short clips


    The "Short" view doesn't show any clips


    Here's the "Short" view filter
     

     embarassed

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    jash
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    « Reply #145 on: January 15, 2012, 08:04:42 AM »

    Hi Tranglos,

    Your Jan 12th suggestion to look at "Tools -> Available Clipboard Formats" seems to have fixed my problem, so that selecting "sfPlainText" now works for me as intended.  The steps I took were:

    1.  When I pulled up the Available Clipboard Formats list, it contained various custom formats as shown in the screenshot below.



    2.  I removed all the custom formats from the list.  I also deleted all the related clips that were then stored in Echo.  As a precaution, I closed Echo and rebooted my computer.

    3.  After rebooting, I copied and pasted some text clips in Word, Excel, Thunderbird and Evernote, and they are all are now being pasted by Echo in plain text -- rather than in original formatting.  I pulled up the Available Clipboard Formats list again.  It shows only the default formats in the screenshot below.  None of the custom formats has returned.



    I think the custom formats may have gotten corrupted in, or were interfering with, my version of Echo.  Deleting them (and their related clips) did the trick for me.  Thanks for all your help!
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    tranglos
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    « Reply #146 on: January 15, 2012, 10:47:51 AM »

    Hi Tranglos. Regarding the "Short" view on my 64-bit computer: I tried your suggestions but still got the same result (short clips aren't displayed on the Short tab). Relevant screenshots are shown below.

    Thanks for the screenshots. And thanks for finding a living, squirming bug, too! smiley

    I don't yet know why this happens, but it seems that when there is only one filter defined, the result is wrong if you select the "Match any filter (OR)" option, above the filter properties. If you click the other option (AND), you will get the correct results, so as a workaround this is what you can do now. Of course the AND/OR choice should have no effect when there's just one filter.

    Scratch all that, sorry, that's all wrong. Back to square one on this.
    « Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 11:29:08 AM by tranglos » Logged

    tranglos
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    « Reply #147 on: January 15, 2012, 11:04:37 AM »

    The "All Clips" view show that there are short clips

    Could you email me the database you used to create these screenshots?
    (marek (at) tranglos (dot) com)

    The SQL Echo executes is correct  (and indeed identical whether the "AND" or the "OR" option is selected, as it should be in this case). So my next guess is that perhaps the clip length stored in the database is incorrect for some reason.

    In your screenshot of the main screen, the first clip is selected. The clip seems to consist only of the word "And", but in the info bar says its length is 39 characters. This is wrong and it is why the clip does not get selected for the filter. Can you check if the length of other clips is correct? Or is the clip actually longer? What does it look like in the editor?

    On edit: I can confirm that when you edit a clip, under some conditions Echo does not save the new length of the edited clip. That would cause clips to be incorrectly included (or excluded) from the "Short" view.

    However, in your screenshot I can see that the clip "And" on top has not been edited, and yet its length is still incorrect. Can't explain this one yet.
    « Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 11:19:03 AM by tranglos » Logged

    Sascha
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    « Reply #148 on: January 16, 2012, 01:45:00 AM »

    Hey tranglos,

    it would be nice, to have a preview-pane for the selected clip (first one for multiselect).
    Most of my clips are code-snippets with more than 2 lines (MaxLinesPerItem := 2) and it is not very useful to load them to the editor for a preview smiley
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    tranglos
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    « Reply #149 on: January 19, 2012, 05:24:50 AM »

    it would be nice, to have a preview-pane for the selected clip (first one for multiselect).
    Most of my clips are code-snippets with more than 2 lines (MaxLinesPerItem := 2) and it is not very useful to load them to the editor for a preview :)

    I understand. The issue here is that adding another pane to the main window would change the overall behavior of the UI in a way I don't want. Echo (like Ditto) maintains what I call a "unified focus": you never need to tab from one control to another, e.g. from the clip list to the search box, in order to scroll the list or perform a search. No matter which part of the UI is focused, you can scroll the list and enter a search string at the same time. To me, this is the single most important feature of the program, because it lets you do the job with absolute minimum of key presses, and you never have to think of "where you are" in the UI.

    Doing this for two controls (the list and the edit box) was possible though somewhat tricky, because Echo has to fight the regular Windows behavior to achieve this (and there are minor inconsistencies that can't be helped, like the behavior of Home/End keys).

    I'm not sure it could work for three or more controls, though. This is basically the same reason Echo does not have categories or tags: they would require a third focusable panel, which really breaks the whole concept.

    But I've added your request to the wishlist and I'll think of how I could do it without breaking Echo :)

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