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Author Topic: OLD - Unfinished Web project: YUMPS  (Read 22028 times)
mouser
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« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2012, 07:22:23 AM »

Just a note that after some serious neglect I am back working on YUMPS currently.

It's a bit daunting how much work there is to do.. I can't help but wonder if I am trying to climb too big a mountain here, but I'll keep climbing for now and see if I can get far enough to make it useful and let it survive as an Open Source project.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 07:30:37 AM by mouser » Logged
mouser
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« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2012, 07:39:44 AM »

I'd love to make contact with people who are administering different CMS/forum systems with reasonably large user bases.

I'm interested in hearing about about the kinds of features you use in those systems -- or even better, wish you had available to you -- to manage and track good users and troublemakers.

The whole point of YUMPS is to be the ultimate foundation for sites that manage users, so I'm really interested in providing functionality that would assist in working with large userbases.
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mahesh2k
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« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2012, 07:42:39 AM »

Check out http://coursera.org  That site is hosting some of the open courses from popular university. I think CMS like that could be improved on user interaction and test/quiz level. It is not much interactive as of now. Just letting you know so that you can find something interesting in it.
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mouser
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« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2012, 08:07:22 AM »

I'm not really interested in complete websites/systems at this point -- i'm much more narrowly focused on the task of user management, and what kinds of faculties are useful for managing a large volume of good and bad users.
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Perry Mowbray
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« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2012, 04:41:28 PM »

If I ever finish with the mountains of photos and blog posts from my last walk I have a yii project that I've been wanting to work on with my youngest son, that although not cms or forum, will involve a significant amount of user action / interaction.  From the first announcement I've been very keen to use this module.

One of the most important things, in my mind, is that the module can self-regulate in some way:  
  • Definable scoring for users that can be used in other areas (eg permissions).  eg:  If there was some sort of moderation in place for new entries, then a rule that allows unmoderated entries when successful entries >= 5.
  • This may involve users being voted up or down, that may impact (eventually) on some of their permissions, or flag them for some sort of administration task.  
  • Users being able to form themselves into groups and have some level of control over what members are allowed to do.
  • Users have full control over their information and what is displayed / used.
  • Multiple and easy registration methods for users

And I guess if it didn't come with it "in the box", having the ability to extend the module is important.
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mouser
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« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2012, 05:10:48 PM »

Good ideas Perry -- those are the kinds of things i'm planning on focusing on.

Those of us who help keep the DC forums clean of spammers have gained some valuable experience in terms of dealing with bad actors.  This has led to a bunch of modifications I've made to the SMF forum code to help detect, alert on, and then eliminate spammers -- stuff i will definitely be putting into yumps.  It's clear that one needs a combination of automatic mechanisms for catching spammers but also tools to help moderators detect and track suspicious activity.
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mouser
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« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2012, 07:31:09 AM »

Might be useful to link to other similar projects in the wild.

One promissing one that is not yet released but in active development by the people who wrote the SMF forum, is smCore.
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mouser
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« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2012, 04:13:29 AM »

Following up on my focus on making this a very robust *core* for user/group stuff, I've spent the last week putting in place a system if "bridged" logins.

This means users will be able to login to a yumps site using openid/facebook/twitter/etc, with very robust support for managing their linked/bridged logins (creating multiple ways to login, removing them, optionally requiring additional security like local password), and automatically creating local accounts from the bridged logins, so that the entire process is transparent to the rest of the site -- including all the normal operations for validating/approving accounts, etc.

In other words, if you build a site using yumps -- your users should be able to create accounts and login normally, or using a wide variety of 3rd party sites, and it should happen totally transparently to you as the site coder.  Yumps will also be a host (via something like OpenId) for providing such authorization of yumps accounts to other sites.


« Last Edit: March 11, 2012, 07:06:34 PM by mouser » Logged
Perry Mowbray
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« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2012, 05:47:10 AM »

In other words, if you build a site using yumps

Which I'm very much looking forward to starting...
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mouser
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« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2012, 05:52:42 AM »

I've also decided to open source yumps.
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Perry Mowbray
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« Reply #35 on: March 01, 2012, 08:58:48 PM »

I've also decided to open source yumps.

Where were you planning on hosting it? I think Yii use git?

Here: https://github.com/yiisoft/yii
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mouser
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« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2012, 05:13:42 AM »

yeah makes sense to keep it where yii lives.
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mouser
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« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2012, 09:23:25 AM »

I have made the redmine/wiki project site for YUMPS public:
https://redmine.dcisv.com/projects/ums2/wiki
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40hz
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« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2012, 10:56:40 AM »

Quick question: how do you primarily envision YUMPS.  Is this framework more geared towards creating social sites, or is it more intended as a classic CMS with social features?
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mouser
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« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2012, 11:02:03 AM »

I think the key idea is that its for programmers who want to create custom web services that involve user accounts.

If you want to build a website that is basically a standard CMS, then by all means use an existing CMS system.

YUMPS is for people who want to build custom web services that don't neatly fit into the standard category of CMS/BLOG/FORUM.



Perhaps a good way to understand the focus of YUMPS is for me to explain what motivated me to start coding on it.

I have started two medium sized web projects now (tfdocs and userquotes), that involve users creating content.  In both cases i struggled mightily to figure out what to use as my core system for handling users, and ended up both times choosing Drupal, because of its strong API for extending the system.

While both systems got implemented -- I was very unhappy with the process of using Drupal, and my conclusion was that Drupal and other CMS systems, not matter how flexible and programmer friendly they are -- are designed for web administrators not programmers.  While they may have a high degree of customizability and configurability, trying to use them as the starting point for a custom system that is not first and foremost a standard cms, is painful.

YUMPS is like a programmer's library, with which you could build a new custom CMS, forum, blog system, or similar web service.

Or put another way, YUMPS is not a competitor to DRUPAL, Wordpress, or the SMF forum system -- it's something that could be used as the foundation code for building a new version of Drupal, Wordpress, etc.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2012, 11:09:44 AM by mouser » Logged
40hz
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« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2012, 11:44:16 AM »

So (just so I'm clear on this) YUMPS has more in common with something like Microsoft's Web Developer than it does with an extensible but still prepackaged web solution like Joomla or Wordpress.
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mouser
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« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2012, 12:13:32 PM »

I dont know anything about "Microsoft's Web Developer".

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40hz
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« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2012, 02:42:59 PM »

I dont know anything about "Microsoft's Web Developer".



Ok. Never mind then. smiley


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P.S. (Here in case you're curious.)
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« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2012, 03:01:39 PM »

It's a framework rather than a theme (WordPress-speak cheesy)
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« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2012, 05:43:04 PM »

It's a framework rather than a theme (WordPress-speak cheesy)

Oh, I understand what a framework is. (At least I think i do. Grin) My question was more about what the overall design of the framework was more geared towards. Many frameworks are engineered with a fairly specific class of application in mind. Mouser has indicated his framework is more a general purpose one. I was just wondering how "general purpose" general purpose was in this context.

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Perry Mowbray
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« Reply #45 on: March 11, 2012, 06:41:39 PM »

Yii provides a php framework in which you can build just about anything.

There are plenty of Yii add-ons, or templates, or plugins that provide user / permission / etc functionality.  One of the problems is that you need to install a few different ones generally to get what you want.

From what I understand, Mouser is writing a single module plugin that will do all the user based functions: account / messaging / permissions / etc.

It will be a 'single' module that can be installed into any Yii application and will provide 'out of the box' support for user accounts stuff.  What the Yii application does is entirely up to the developer.
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mouser
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« Reply #46 on: March 11, 2012, 07:00:54 PM »

Yes, pretty much what perry said.
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mouser
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« Reply #47 on: March 11, 2012, 07:16:02 PM »

ps. If anyone can think of any way I could raise funding to keep working on yumps please do contact me -- I'd love nothing more than to be able to work on it near full time for a year -- it's a giant project.
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« Reply #48 on: March 11, 2012, 08:02:05 PM »

ps. If anyone can think of any way I could raise funding to keep working on yumps please do contact me -- I'd love nothing more than to be able to work on it near full time for a year -- it's a giant project.
I'll look into it mouser.  I would also like for you to be able to work on it.
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mouser
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« Reply #49 on: March 12, 2012, 10:16:29 AM »

Awesome.

The idea of YUMPS is to have a really robust and fantastic, programmer-friendly foundation for creating custom web services, social sites, etc.  So that if one had an idea for a new kind of project along the lines of facebook, etsy (anything with user accounts!) -- you would be able to get that off the ground and coded in a fraction of the time it would take to code it from scratch, and with a fraction of the maintenance and extensibility hassles (and a much more robust feature set) than you would have if you started with one of the existing codebases (whether that be a cms codebase like Drupal, or a lower level programming framework).

A good potential source of funding might be someone with a specific custom web service/site project in mind (or two or three), that was interested in having me create both the generic YUMPS system, and at the same time implementing their specific needs as the showcase site.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 10:40:27 AM by mouser » Logged
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