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UK Riots: Have you been affected?
40hz:
Fortunate for the participants that it's the UK and not the USA.
We'd already have the military out if this were happening here.
-40hz (August 10, 2011, 12:37 PM)
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Are there any in the USA? I thought they were all in the Middle East and Asia?
-Carol Haynes (August 11, 2011, 09:51 AM)
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@Carol - Cute. Very.
Carol Haynes:
I didn't mean to be cute - it was a real comment.
Actually the US are better about their military than the UK. Currently the UK government is sacking most of the armed forces (to save money).
I wouldn't be surprised if many get laid off in Afghanistan to save the government the cost of bringing them home.
40hz:
^The point I was trying to make was that it's fortunate (for the rioters) that the UK is responding to the unrest in a more restrained and balanced fashion than the US normally does when confronted with similar situations.
Most of our police forces (municipal, State, Federal) coordinate with a remarkable and frightening degree of speed and efficiency whenever life or property is at risk. And with the widespread creation of "special task units" (i.e. 'paramilitary police' even though they don't like to call them that) on all levels, it's a small matter for US police to respond with any and everything from bullhorns to combat grade armored vehicles and air support.
And the "right" of US police forces to "respond with deadly force" has long been sanctioned, both by custom, and and by law. So the police already have the tools and the authority. There's no handwringing or debates on that score. And it's almost always left up to the police "responding at the scene" as to whether or not the use of deadly force is needed.
So violent protest is a far more dangerous game over here. Especially since the standard operating procedure for handling major civil disturbances is to stop the disturbance, clear the streets, and let the hospitals, courts, and politicians deal with the aftermath.
In short - it gets really ugly really fast in these parts. :o
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Regarding US military: True. Many of the professional troops, plus a goodly portion of the federally funded State militias, are deployed overseas. But there's plenty more where these lads and lassies came from. The current deployments are just the volunteers. The only reason they're the size they are is because of cost constraints and the intense dislike of military drafts by the general public. It's definitely not because of any squeamishness on the incumbent government to send them forth to wreak havoc whenever humanitarian, political or (lately) business considerations call for the use of force.
8)
Carol Haynes:
And the "right" of US police forces to "respond with deadly force" has long been sanctioned, both by custom, and and by law. So the police already have the tools and the authority.
-40hz (August 11, 2011, 12:28 PM)
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True but in a way the NRA have forced that situation as the criminals will also be armed (potentially with assault weapons)! In the UK a tiny minority of criminals are armed - partly from legislation and partly because the police don't instantly react with deadly force so the need for weapons isn't as clearly perceived.
40hz:
^Which is a good thing. Cherish that state of affairs for as long as it lasts. With luck and some public commitment, it will. :)
P.S. I don't think it's the NRA so much as this country's "gun culture" which goes back to the Revolution and continues through the blazing six-shooters of Wild West legends, and goes onward past "cops & robbers" and Elliot Ness and The Untouchables all the way up to Bruce Willis with his Die Hard series. And now it also goes well into the imagined future with movies like The Fifth Element, Cowboys and Aliens, and the Stargate TV shows.
America loves it's guns. For most of its history the US has allowed virtually unrestricted access to, and ownership of, firearms. And it's part of the mindset now. The NRA grew out of that. Its a symptom rather than a cause. And the only reason it packs the clout it does is because there's enough cross-constituency financial and vocal support behind it that politicians ignore the NRA's advocacy at their peril.
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And I'm gonna stop going off-topic talking about the US and let the discussion go back to what's happening in the UK. Because the US situation is a done deal. But England is at a turning point where there is a huge amount of peril and opportunity. Hopefully it will get things fixed and avoid what happened here. That's a much more interesting topic since there's some hope the UK story will have a happy ending.
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