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Last post Author Topic: UK Riots: Have you been affected?  (Read 12784 times)

Stephen66515

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UK Riots: Have you been affected?
« on: August 09, 2011, 04:10:19 PM »
England is going down the shitter, and I for one have prepped my house just in case it hits my area.

Anybody else affected by this madness?

Its just been reported that a city less than 20 miles from me is under attack now, and I can hear sirens going down the main road, so it sounds like there may be something happening nearby.

justice

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Re: UK Riots: Have you been affected?
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2011, 05:52:48 PM »
Loads of talk here if you interested:
http://www.nuskoolbr...hp?f=14&t=149940

IainB

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Re: UK Riots: Have you been affected?
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2011, 06:27:13 PM »
As an ex-Londoner, I haven't been affected - I emigrated from the UK years ago - but a few of my friends in S.E. London area (where I used to live) have told me they have been doing a lot of shopping over the last few days. Apparently there are some bargain-basement prices and even stuff being had for free in what they call "fire sales".

fenixproductions

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Re: UK Riots: Have you been affected?
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2011, 09:20:47 AM »

tomos

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Re: UK Riots: Have you been affected?
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2011, 09:26:02 AM »
Tom
« Last Edit: August 10, 2011, 09:40:21 AM by tomos »

justice

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Re: UK Riots: Have you been affected?
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2011, 09:41:44 AM »

Renegade

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Re: UK Riots: Have you been affected?
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2011, 09:55:12 AM »
I think EVERYONE will be affected by this.

First, the UK government is pressuring RIM to give them access to encrypted messages. Hmmm... Don't you usually need a warrant for that? And does this mean that they're already spying on everyone else that doesn't have encrypted communications?

Second, nice little speech from the PM:

http://www.telegraph...atement-in-full.html

Quote
Picture by picture, these criminals are being identified, arrested and we will not let any phoney concerns about human rights get in the way of the publication of these pictures and arrest of these individuals.

Good. Intentions. Road. Hell. Connect the dots.

I wonder how necessary the words "phoney concerns about" were there...

When heads of state start talking about setting aside human rights, there's a very deeeeeeeeeeeeeep problem.

So... What is the UK going to call its 'Patriot Act'?


Destroying people's houses and local shops isn't a solution. Burning Parliament is close to the mark. But then again, burning Parliament would only be a replay of burning the Reichstag...


Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

lanux128

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Re: UK Riots: Have you been affected?
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2011, 09:56:08 AM »
the BBC has a timeline and map of the disturbances

bbc_news_london_riots_10_08_2011_001.jpg
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14436499

Renegade

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Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

tomos

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Re: UK Riots: Have you been affected?
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2011, 10:15:30 AM »
Voice of sanity found via justice's link above, (poetry oddly enough) [the F word used once, so, depending on your workplace - NSFW]:



and elsewhere




Cameron says:
> It is a complete lack of responsibility in parts of our society[...]
He neatly doesnt include his own part though...
http://www.telegraph...atement-in-full.html
Tom
« Last Edit: August 10, 2011, 10:19:02 AM by tomos, Reason: added link for Camerons speech (from Renegade\'s post above) »

nudone

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Re: UK Riots: Have you been affected?
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2011, 10:23:49 AM »
History repeats itself (no surprise there, humans are pretty dumb after all), this article sums things up quite well: http://neweconomics....1780s-all-over-again

Talk about rebels without a cause.

lanux128

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Re: UK Riots: Have you been affected?
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2011, 10:29:23 AM »
a search in Wikipedia for "London riots" returned this article.

http://en.wikipedia....rg/wiki/London_riots

Renegade

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Re: UK Riots: Have you been affected?
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2011, 10:35:58 AM »
From the second video tomos posted:

"It's an insurrection."

History repeats itself (no surprise there, humans are pretty dumb after all), this article sums things up quite well: http://neweconomics....1780s-all-over-again

Talk about rebels without a cause.

From that article:

Quote
No, but the official explanation – “sheer criminality” – while it is certainly true, does not seem quite adequate.

Interesting... Has a ring of truth in there.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

40hz

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Re: UK Riots: Have you been affected?
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2011, 12:37:07 PM »
Fortunate for the participants that it's the UK and not the USA.

We'd already have the military out if this were happening here.

Good luck and best wishes to everybody in the UK. Sorry to see you're going through this no matter which side of the fence you're on.  :(


rjbull

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Re: UK Riots: Have you been affected?
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2011, 04:08:30 PM »
History repeats itself (no surprise there, humans are pretty dumb after all), this article sums things up quite well: http://neweconomics....1780s-all-over-again

Talk about rebels without a cause.

1780's?  Newbies.  Try reading Summer of blood: The peasants' revolt of 1381 by Dan Jones.

tomos

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Re: UK Riots: Have you been affected?
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2011, 05:03:54 AM »
History repeats itself (no surprise there, humans are pretty dumb after all), this article sums things up quite well: http://neweconomics....1780s-all-over-again

Talk about rebels without a cause.

1780's?  Newbies.  Try reading Summer of blood: The peasants' revolt of 1381 by Dan Jones.

Sounds like an interesting read :)

nudone's link is an interesting read - also other interesting posts about it there.
Everything seems to be working through fear, fear of the banks, fear of the poor. Greed should be thrown in there as well, on all sides...
Tom
« Last Edit: August 11, 2011, 05:06:07 AM by tomos, Reason: added link (other posts) »

fenixproductions

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Re: UK Riots: Have you been affected?
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2011, 05:50:50 AM »
fear of the banks, fear of the poor
You are joking? Right?

In situation when society actually pays you for not working "fear of poor" is a bad joke.
IMHO London Riots are nothing alike poor people vs aristocrats or any revolution. Some part of it is about lazy bastards who want more, another - criminals who know Police does nothing to really stop them.

tomos

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Re: UK Riots: Have you been affected?
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2011, 07:39:39 AM »
^ no, I dont think of it as a revolution.
I mean, I know what you mean fenix and I dont disagree with you.
I do think there's a big class thing goes on, in England especially. And I think the political approach is and has been to work from a place of fear of the people in the poor areas (that's what I was trying to say, and what they were saying in the articles from the blog nudone linked to). Keep em tucked away here. or there. And keep em down.

That's one side of the coin, but the other is the increasing poverty of the masses and increasing richness of the few. That's "even" going on here in Germany (where you can get the lowest wages payable in Western Europe).

OTOH Governments definitely work in fear of the banks, and appear to be more or less in payment of corporations. It's all a mess.
And
Some part of it is about lazy bastards who want more, another - criminals who know Police does nothing to really stop them.
I'm not blaming the government for what these people are doing, but they sure arent helping (and neither have the previous, nor the previous...)
Tom

Carol Haynes

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Re: UK Riots: Have you been affected?
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2011, 09:51:14 AM »
Fortunate for the participants that it's the UK and not the USA.

We'd already have the military out if this were happening here.

Are there any in the USA? I thought they were all in the Middle East and Asia?

rgdot

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Re: UK Riots: Have you been affected?
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2011, 09:54:08 AM »
In situation when society actually pays you for not working "fear of poor" is a bad joke.

I don't necessarily disagree with the rest of your post but this part....most of the developed world that's not the case any more any way. Welfare state was abolished by so-called left leaning people (Clinton, Blair, etc.). The little that exists does not discourage people from seeking real income and employment, that's one of the biggest myth perpetuated by the right.

40hz

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Re: UK Riots: Have you been affected?
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2011, 10:11:16 AM »
Fortunate for the participants that it's the UK and not the USA.

We'd already have the military out if this were happening here.

Are there any in the USA? I thought they were all in the Middle East and Asia?

@Carol - Cute. Very.






Carol Haynes

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Re: UK Riots: Have you been affected?
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2011, 11:48:59 AM »
I didn't mean to be cute - it was a real comment.

Actually the US are better about their military than the UK. Currently the UK government is sacking most of the armed forces (to save money).

I wouldn't be surprised if many get laid off in Afghanistan to save the government the cost of bringing them home.

40hz

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Re: UK Riots: Have you been affected?
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2011, 12:28:51 PM »
^The point I was trying to make was that it's fortunate (for the rioters) that the UK is responding to the unrest in a more restrained and balanced fashion than the US normally does when confronted with similar situations.

Most of our police forces (municipal, State, Federal) coordinate with a remarkable and frightening degree of speed and efficiency whenever life or property is at risk. And with the widespread creation of "special task units" (i.e. 'paramilitary police' even though they don't like to call them that) on all levels, it's a small matter for US police to respond with any and everything from bullhorns to combat grade armored vehicles and air support.

And the "right" of US police forces to "respond with deadly force" has long been sanctioned, both by custom, and and by law. So the police already have the tools and the authority. There's no handwringing or debates on that score. And it's almost always left up to the police "responding at the scene" as to whether or not the use of deadly force is needed.  

So violent protest is a far more dangerous game over here. Especially since the standard operating procedure for handling major civil disturbances is to stop the disturbance, clear the streets, and let the hospitals, courts, and politicians deal with the aftermath.

In short - it gets really ugly really fast in these parts.  :o

----------

Regarding US military: True. Many of the professional troops, plus a goodly portion of the federally funded State militias, are deployed overseas. But there's plenty more where these lads and lassies came from. The current deployments are just the volunteers. The only reason they're the size they are is because of cost constraints and the intense dislike of military drafts by the general public. It's definitely not because of any squeamishness on the incumbent government to send them forth to wreak havoc whenever humanitarian, political or (lately) business considerations call for the use of force.
 8)


« Last Edit: August 11, 2011, 12:42:17 PM by 40hz »

Carol Haynes

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Re: UK Riots: Have you been affected?
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2011, 01:32:47 PM »
And the "right" of US police forces to "respond with deadly force" has long been sanctioned, both by custom, and and by law. So the police already have the tools and the authority.

True but in a way the NRA have forced that situation as the criminals will also be armed (potentially with assault weapons)! In the UK a tiny minority of criminals are armed - partly from legislation and partly because the police don't instantly react with deadly force so the need for weapons isn't as clearly perceived.

40hz

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Re: UK Riots: Have you been affected?
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2011, 02:53:31 PM »
^Which is a good thing. Cherish that state of affairs for as long as it lasts. With luck and some public commitment, it will.  :)

P.S. I don't think it's the NRA so much as this country's "gun culture" which goes back to the Revolution and continues through the blazing six-shooters of Wild West legends, and goes onward past "cops & robbers" and Elliot Ness and The Untouchables all the way up to Bruce Willis with his Die Hard series. And now it also goes well into the imagined  future with movies like The Fifth Element, Cowboys and Aliens, and the Stargate TV shows.

America loves it's guns. For most of its history the US has allowed virtually unrestricted access to, and ownership of, firearms. And it's part of the mindset now. The NRA grew out of that. Its a symptom rather than a cause. And the only reason it packs the clout it does is because there's enough cross-constituency financial and vocal support behind it that politicians ignore the NRA's advocacy at their peril.

----------

And I'm gonna stop going off-topic talking about the US and let the discussion go back to what's happening in the UK. Because the US situation is a done deal. But England is at a turning point where there is a huge amount of peril and opportunity. Hopefully it will get things fixed and avoid what happened here. That's a much more interesting topic since there's some hope the UK story will have a happy ending.

 
« Last Edit: August 11, 2011, 04:12:36 PM by 40hz »