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Author Topic: In search of ... opinions/reviews of IDEs & Editors for Web code  (Read 4291 times)
barney
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« on: August 08, 2011, 01:49:18 PM »

(There's prolly a topic already here, but I couldn't find it  embarassed.)

Don't want to start any wars, but I'd really like to get opinions on the various IDEs and editors that are useful for Web code.  At the moment, I'm using Komodo Edit (the IDE version seems aimed at team development), CodeLobster, Rapid PHP 2010, Code Chameleon, Coffee Cup HTML Editor, HippoEdit, just to name a few.

Well ... I'm using Komodo, primarily, and dabbling with the others as time permits.  Probably my all-time favorite was HomeSite, but Nick Bradbury went in anther direction, so updates and new capabilities are no longer available.  The others previously mentioned all have certain, mostly different, strengths and weaknesses.

What I'd like to see here is what other tools are used by the DC folk, and why they prefer them.  It simply is not possible for an individual to be aware of, much less test, all such tools currently extant.

Most of what I do now is PHP/JavaScript/HTML(5), but I'm tempted to get back into ASP & VB for a couple-two-t'ree projects, and I'd like to [try to] learn C#.  So I'm looking for a single tool that'll work well for multiple environments, if possible.

Yes, I've read a number of online reviews, but had no gauge as to the trustworthiness of the authors.  And the best part about some of the tools I've tried was the review  ohmy tongue.  Since there are a number of developers on DC (Gee, who'da guessed  tellme?!?, and since their products tend to be above average (based upon NANY products, as well as looking at their Web pages), I thought to bring the question here. 

It's understood that answers to such questions tend to be subjective, just like politics and choosing a vehicle  tellme, and thus may not be as appropriate for others as for the reviewer.

I'd really like to find the Philosopher's Stone Kiss of coding environments, but that's prolly a reach too far  tongue.
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Shades
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« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2011, 02:24:38 PM »

You could try Eclipse, it has plugins to support practically everything. But I do not know if it will be your cup of tea, its layout/workflow and Java roots may be too much. Besides this I do not know about the quality of the plugins. The only one with which I have a little bit of experience is the PHP one and that is quite ok (if the development PC has the computational resources, that is).
 
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barney
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« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2011, 02:44:58 PM »

Eclipse is funny - at least for me  Grin.  I've run it on several Linux distros, but was never able to get it functional on WinXP or Win7 boxes.  While I suspect it was a Java issue - conflicts with other Java-based software would indicate that - I was never able to get a functional install.  However, this being a [relatively] new box, I'll try it again.  It's worth trying just to say, "I made it work," if for no other reason  tongue.  But if it can be made to perform as it did with Linux, well worth the effort.  Guess I should have specified a Win7 box, huh  undecided?
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fenixproductions
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« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2011, 04:35:34 PM »

Unfortunately: there is no perfect solution.

From time to time I am trying to navigate through many software related portals to check each HTML editor I can find and... all of them sucks.

Tried Eclipse & Aptana many times and each one of them was disaster due to applications speed. If I can't load editor in less than minute I abandon it. And that was always the case here.

Same goes for NetBeans, although it has very nice help for many tags, when auto-complete kicks in. Sadly: editing features (like column mode) in this application keep irritating me. Also there is no good support for pure HTML projects. Of course, there is an extension for it but doesn't work properly for me. Every time I am creating the project and specifying completely new path, it adds dozens of files I don't even know where from. Is it that hard to have completely clean project with no files in it to add/create them manualy? And why should I specify text encoding in files properties instead of having it done automatically on drag'n'drop?

In my work I am supposed to use Dreamweaver. Great app but has no column mode, no nice Search&Replace and code snippets are crap. I had also had to create my own extension (script) for entities conversion. Despite of having awesome source code formatter it is not development tool. It is design tool with possibility of development. Design View is great but having it as main focus part is not. Don't believe me it is not for coders? Launch multi-screen view and see what lands in floating window and what stays with the rest of the interface.

HippoEdit - not focused on strict web development but... has the best column edit mode in the world. I spent a lot of time on Polish translation of HE web page to get free key. Was using it for many hours but beta version started to crash on me randomly. Since I can't reproduce any of errors author can't help me. Abandoned for time being. Worth mentioning: previewers for images or colours (just hover value and get preview ) and text markers (according to author: partially inspired by my suggestion from DC)

Notepad++ - not web dev tool but very good text editor. Thanks to the PythonScript plugin I can have ZenCoding in it, integrate CleverCSS and write own snakes (got to learn this beast basics but was not end of the world). Not bad column mode, good Search&Replace but bad HTML and JS auto-complete in contrary. It seems to be good enough for quick web work but the lack of Preview Panel can be PITA*.



OK. my Muse left me so… for daily work I am using Dreamweaver because of code re-formatting and Design View while keeping Notepad++ for quick edits and as additional clipboard.

*) Well, I can set browser refresh to few seconds but there would be no reason to complain and I hate such scenarios Wink
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 04:39:29 PM by fenixproductions » Logged

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Tuxman
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« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2011, 04:42:43 PM »

I don't use IDEs for web development. I tried to fiddle with Aptana, but my laptop (bought in 2008) is definitely underpowered. It even kicks me out of the internet when I exit the application because of CPU overloading. Stupid Java dumbshit.
(This is actually the most common reason IDEs suck: They're Java software.)

As web development is best done when you have a clue of HTML and ${yourfavoritelanguages}, a good text editor with syntax highlighting and, maybe, good search&replace functionalities (Vim or, let's say, Sublime Text 2) is more than you even need. (At work - some Perl/PHP company - we use TextMate or Sublime Text 2. I, basically, dislike Mac OS X, so TextMate has never been my choice at all.)

"Non-web development" sometimes is better done with IDEs. The only major C++ project I am working on is an eMule mod, which is coded using Visual Studio 2003 (because the official eMule is also not updated to a newer VS yet, so compatibility is questionable). I know some Java guys who use eclipse for their devilish work. They might want to see Netbeans. Seems more stable and fast to me.
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barney
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« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2011, 05:15:17 PM »

Tried DreamWeaver when it first came out.  Bought it.  Tried for a week.  Threw it away and went back to HomeSite  Grin.  As you say, it's a designer tool, and I am not a designer  Sad.
I've had pretty much the same experience with NetBeans as with Eclipse - and Aptana, forgot to mention that one, sorry - the difference being that I could get it to run, albeit slowly.

Not familiar with Notepad++.  Tend to use PSPad, TreePadX, or NoteTab Pro for text editing chores.

Still playing with HippoEdit off and on, but not familiar enough yet to say yea! or nay!, but it's looking to be competition for Komodo  undecided.
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barney
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« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2011, 06:19:20 PM »

Just pulled down Sublime Text, 64-bit portable v2 beta.  Installed it - can you say that about portables  Grin? - and took a quick look.  Looks good just according to what it purports to handle.  Never heard of it before, so there's another one to check  Cry tongue.  Thanks.
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Tuxman
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« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2011, 06:23:00 PM »

"Installable portable" - seems legit.  cheesy

I'm not sure where I had found it but ST was, at least, discussed on DC as well. smiley

No problem!
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I bet when Cheetahs race and one of them cheats, the other one goes "Man, you're such a Cheetah!" and they laugh & eat a zebra or whatever.
- @VeryGrumpyCat
barney
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« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2011, 07:15:18 PM »

Thanks again Thmbsup.

That link led me to Cream.  Damn you  tongue, you're gonna make me work[/] Cry.
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Tuxman
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« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2011, 07:43:07 PM »

Cream is bloatware. Make your own .vimrc and you're fine.  cheesy
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- @VeryGrumpyCat
barney
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« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2011, 12:34:45 AM »

OK, that's not fair  AngryCream is a no-no, but I'm Vim-illiterate  and you want me to create what I assume is a Vim macro?  Have you ever read Great Expectations  tongue?
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mahesh2k
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« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2011, 12:53:57 AM »

PhpDesigner - works fine with PHP and other web dev tasks.
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nudone
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« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2011, 03:39:26 AM »

I use a combination of Dreamweaver and Notepad++ too, and avoid using the common IDEs because of the common complaints.

One suggestions I saw elsewhere was to try one of the JetBrains solutions: http://www.jetbrains.com/index.html

Either WebStorm or PhpStorm. They were recommended as faster alternatives to the more popular IDEs. None of the JetBrains stuff is free but they do seem quite nice.

I know it will take me a while to move away from what I'm used to (Dreamweaver and Notepad++), so I really can't say if something like WebStorm is the answer.
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Tuxman
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« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2011, 05:41:01 AM »

OK, that's not fair  AngryCream is a no-no, but I'm Vim-illiterate  and you want me to create what I assume is a Vim macro?
No, it is not a macro. Also there is a lot of help available.
:help <option>

So: Learning by doing!
https://github.com/dertux...2fc9047b7d9dee6941/.vimrc

cheesy
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- @VeryGrumpyCat
40hz
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« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2011, 06:44:26 AM »

I know several people that like the HTML-Kit. It's been around for years. There's two versions available: the older (and free) HTML-Kit 292; and the newer HTML-Kit Tools. The differences between the two can be read about here.

This is one of those "everything plus the kitchen sink" packages so expect a learning curve before you can fully avail yourself of all the features. Friends of mine who have taken the time say it's a fantastic environment to work in.

I personally use Notepad++ for most of my web work.

However, I'm not a designer, and most of what I do are readable web pages without a lot of bling. I have a few very basic page templates stored in my head. So most of what I do gets done using those.

I'm also quite organized so I don't really need any 'link tree' feature to keep track of what pages relate to what other pages. The way I name my pages takes care of that. Same goes for images. I've have a standardized naming convention and directory tree structure for those files too. So I don't need much in the way asset management features.

While this dumbass approach works for me, it probably wouldn't be usable if you were doing a complex or large website. (I'd be more inclined to go with a CMS if I were in that boat anyway.) It also completely ignores SEO considerations. So if you're planning a commerce site, or looking for a lot of page hits, you wouldn't want to follow in my footsteps.

One product I want to try out is Xara's Web Designer 7. It's one of those visual template driven page creators. I wouldn't want to use it for everything. But there are some projects I've worked on where I could see it being very useful. (At least if it works half as well as Xara claims it does. mrgreen)

Check out the videos under the above link to get an idea of what it can do.

I downloaded the trial over a month ago, but I haven't gotten around to checking it out yet. Work before play, unfortunately. smiley

« Last Edit: August 09, 2011, 06:55:37 AM by 40hz » Logged

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wraith808
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« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2011, 10:47:01 AM »

PhpDesigner - works fine with PHP and other web dev tasks.

Is it activation based?  i.e. do you have to activate it over the internet?

One suggestions I saw elsewhere was to try one of the JetBrains solutions: http://www.jetbrains.com/index.html

Either WebStorm or PhpStorm. They were recommended as faster alternatives to the more popular IDEs. None of the JetBrains stuff is free but they do seem quite nice.

Does anyone know what the difference in features is in WebStorm vs PhPStorm?  I couldn't readily tell from the site.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2011, 10:50:28 AM by wraith808 » Logged

Ath
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« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2011, 11:26:17 AM »

Does anyone know what the difference in features is in WebStorm vs PhPStorm?
From the PhpStorm page:
Quote
Note: PhpStorm includes all the functionality of WebStorm (HTML/CSS Editor, JavaScript Editor) and adds full-fledged support for PHP.
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urlwolf
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« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2011, 12:45:12 PM »

Quote
One product I want to try out is Xara's Web Designer 7. It's one of those visual template driven page creators. I wouldn't want to use it for everything. But there are some projects I've worked on where I could see it being very useful. (At least if it works half as well as Xara claims it does. )

Has anyone tested this?
Looks like it'd produce pretty horrible html and css. But so does dreamweaver, right?
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40hz
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« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2011, 12:54:22 PM »

^AFAIK all the wysiwyg web design tools do
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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2011, 01:27:07 PM »

Quote
One product I want to try out is Xara's Web Designer 7. It's one of those visual template driven page creators. I wouldn't want to use it for everything. But there are some projects I've worked on where I could see it being very useful. (At least if it works half as well as Xara claims it does. )

Has anyone tested this?
Looks like it'd produce pretty horrible html and css. But so does dreamweaver, right?

I have tried this but haven't produced any website with it yet. The HTML/CSS is pretty grim but Xara is very fast to work with and the pages seem to load recently fast in a browser. Nice to have real text flow around any shaped object (and it works blazingly fast) but the HTML is pretty dense!
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