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Last post Author Topic: Steam: Savior or Slayer of PC Gaming?  (Read 17709 times)

lanux128

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Steam: Savior or Slayer of PC Gaming?
« on: August 05, 2011, 12:19:43 AM »
a number of gamers might have noticed the recent fallout between two major players in PC gaming, Valve and EA. this article examines some aspects of it.

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http://www.maximumpc..._or_slayer_pc_gaming

Renegade

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Re: Steam: Savior or Slayer of PC Gaming?
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2011, 12:42:12 AM »
Interesting take on things there. But I didn't really get much out of it. Steam has never worked for me; their payment system is too rigid. If you want to see an excellent payment system, check out the Vivid.com system. FYI - it's NSFW - Vivid is one (if not the) of the largest companies in adult entertainment. But seriously -- their payment system is intelligent. They detect your browser language (not from your IP address, which is completely idiotic [can we say "Google"?]) and then choose a default currency for you based on your IP address (which is the most logical as there is no other way to do that). Got to hand it to pron... they understand that getting money is better than not getting money -- something that is sorely missed in the rest of the online ecommerce world. :(
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CodeBoy

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Re: Steam: Savior or Slayer of PC Gaming?
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2011, 03:01:16 AM »
I have only ever used steam for football manager and it seems to work well enough on that, but it does have some glitches which are rather frustrating at times. But then what doesn't?

wraith808

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Re: Steam: Savior or Slayer of PC Gaming?
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2011, 07:29:41 AM »
To paraphrase a quote from the article for my own purposes:

{I} want a simpler, more unified experience. The verdict is in: {I} like using Steam. Why? Cause it's easy, it's lightweight, and it can work on multiple platforms. PC is an incredibly broad term, with just about everyone owning and operating a personal computing device of some sort.

Also, I like not having physical media, and being able to get the game again whenever I want.

Renegade

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Re: Steam: Savior or Slayer of PC Gaming?
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2011, 07:43:51 AM »
To paraphrase a quote from the article for my own purposes:

{I} want a simpler, more unified experience. The verdict is in: {I} like using Steam. Why? Cause it's easy, it's lightweight, and it can work on multiple platforms. PC is an incredibly broad term, with just about everyone owning and operating a personal computing device of some sort.

Also, I like not having physical media, and being able to get the game again whenever I want.

+1

It's a compelling argument.

I buy from one web site fairly regularly (SnowCovered.com). They keep a record of all my purchases and I can go back and download any of them at any time.

Doesn't sound impressive until I say that I have purchases dating back to 2004 that I can download...

How many sites keep records and downloads that long? Most won't let you download again after 24 hours or 30 days (and some inbetween as well). Want to download a purchase from iTunes? Ooops... Sorry. Please buy that again. (Wasn't happy when I went back to download a purchase and found that out.)

The simple fact that I can go back and get a download again is a very compelling reason for me, and goes a long way in buying my loyalty.
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Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

wraith808

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Re: Steam: Savior or Slayer of PC Gaming?
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2011, 08:53:03 AM »
Want to download a purchase from iTunes? Ooops... Sorry. Please buy that again. (Wasn't happy when I went back to download a purchase and found that out.)

Apparently they finally figured out that this was a bad idea; you can download old purchase now, and retroactively.

cranioscopical

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Re: Steam: Savior or Slayer of PC Gaming?
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2011, 10:35:21 AM »
I like not having physical media, and being able to get the game again whenever I want.

It's a great idea except for us poor marginalized creatures with s-l-o-o-w download speeds. It can take about a week to get a game.

One thing I can't understand with Steam is that after buying locally, on a physical medium, Steam still jumps in and prevents play… for days. I must be missing something — probably a brain.

Anyone care to enlighten me?

Renegade

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Re: Steam: Savior or Slayer of PC Gaming?
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2011, 10:56:25 AM »
Want to download a purchase from iTunes? Ooops... Sorry. Please buy that again. (Wasn't happy when I went back to download a purchase and found that out.)

Apparently they finally figured out that this was a bad idea; you can download old purchase now, and retroactively.

Y'know... Speak of the Devil and who should appear?

Less than an hour ago...

I bought my wife and I each a Pro subscription to Toodle, and Due Today for myself on my Android phone, and the Toodle iPhone app for my wife on her iPhone. Well, while signing in, she asks me to buy her Bejeweled Blitz 2, which I'd bought for her before, but we deleted it because it is just so damn addictive... (Kind of like the many TD games that mouser tortures me with! :P [ I've lost entire DAYS because of those posts... Not proud of that... :( ] )

So I buy the game 'again', and lo and behold... Her iPhone tells me that I've bought it before, and that I can get it for free...

SHOCK~!  :o

Bewilderment...  :huh:

WTF?

Has Apple realized that ing customers in the isn't acceptable behaviour?

Stunned... Just stunned...

I have yet to try this on my Mac, but we'll see. Will they charge me again? Dunno. (Need to get "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly" back!)

That they did it retroactively is simply unbelievable.
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Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

40hz

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Re: Steam: Savior or Slayer of PC Gaming?
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2011, 12:31:38 PM »
I'm not much of a gamer (more interested in flight or submarine sims) so my feelings may not be typical. But I vastly prefer slapping in a DVD to going online to play something. Don't really know why.

I have a Steam account with (a few) very fine games in it. But for some reason I have this weird reluctance to use it. Same goes for my Second Life and Ultima Online accounts.

Something about the logging in is what does it. Maybe it's because I spend my days...and nights...and weekends...and friggin' holidays(!) logged onto one network or another. Feels too much like work or something. (Or maybe it's just my natural reluctance to trust anything on a server I don't have complete control of. Occupational hazard when you do what I do for a living...)

On the other hand I often have to resist the temptation to fire up MS Flight Simulator or one of the Harpoon series disks. And I'll still boot up my aging copy of Big Sid's AlphaCenturi on that little junk laptop I keep just for that.

I guess I'm one of those people who is willing to pay whatever the asking price for media in order to not have to deal with ongoing billing arrangements, network issues, server hassles, slow downloads, and all the little business and political games that (lately) seem to go with playing something online.

It's one thing if you want to do a multiplayer game. But I'll still take a lan party over a web connection if I want to do that - even if it's me that usually gets stuck buying the pizza. Hmm...Odd how everybody always seems to be 'magically' broke whenever I'm in the mood for something with green peppers on it! Must be the ghost of the Colossal Cave Pirate character ("har-har!") that's responsible.

So is it just me, or do other people have as big a hangup about gaming over the web (and generally consider the whole thing a mistake) as I do?

 :)




« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 01:24:43 PM by 40hz »

wraith808

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Re: Steam: Savior or Slayer of PC Gaming?
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2011, 01:10:01 PM »
One thing I can't understand with Steam is that after buying locally, on a physical medium, Steam still jumps in and prevents play… for days. I must be missing something — probably a brain.

Anyone care to enlighten me?

I have no idea of what you refer to.  I've never been prevented from playing anything for any amount of time, let alone days.  Well, I was in the beginning of Steam.  But now with offline mode, unless it's a game that requires online connectivity, no.

Stephen66515

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Re: Steam: Savior or Slayer of PC Gaming?
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2011, 09:15:02 AM »
Steam pisses me off for one simple reason...

I have a few single player OFFLINE games on steam, BUT if I happen to lose internet without switching to offline mode...can I play them...can I f*#$

Please make sure you have an active internet connection before switching to offline mode

I HAVE NO INTERNET...THIS IS WHY I NEED TO GO INTO OFFLINE MODE...IF I HAD INTERNET, I WOULD BE PLAYING IN ONLINE MODE OTHERWISE YOU STUPID FU$*#NG THING

wraith808

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Re: Steam: Savior or Slayer of PC Gaming?
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2011, 09:52:32 AM »
^ Ummm... have you tried this recently?  All you have to do is restart, and it will ask you to go to offline mode.  They fixed that a long time ago.

Stephen66515

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Re: Steam: Savior or Slayer of PC Gaming?
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2011, 10:45:43 AM »
^ Ummm... have you tried this recently?  All you have to do is restart, and it will ask you to go to offline mode.  They fixed that a long time ago.

Tried it yesterday lol, It refused point blank to go into offline mode, which means I cant even play Supreme Commander 2 in offline mode :(

Renegade

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Re: Steam: Savior or Slayer of PC Gaming?
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2011, 12:24:12 PM »
So is it just me, or do other people have as big a hangup about gaming over the web (and generally consider the whole thing a mistake) as I do?

I have a problem with incompetence. Which is rampant.

But it's not always a programming issue. It's usually either an architecture issue or a management issue.

Steam blows. Not because Steam itself is sucky, but because the way they manage the business side is sucky. Well, if my money isn't good enough for you, then f#$% you.

My primary problems with online gaming are the games going offline for "maintenance" for long periods. I can understand a few minutes, but many hours? No. Not acceptable. That's the time that I'm looking to play, and I don't play much. It happens too often. I don't give a s%+ about their maintenance problems. I care about chilling out and playing a game to relax whenever I damn well feel like it. And when I'm paying for it, I seriously give a s*&^.

Then there are the updates... every time I try to play do I really need to download 300 MB or whatever? Jeez... Like WTF? I really don't want to wait an hour or whatever to play a game. I want it NOW!

Look at it this way... I don't need to wait an hour every time I want to start Adobe Illustrator or MS Word or Firefox... Why should I need to piss away an hour (or whatever) to start a game?!?!?!?! It's f*&%ing nuts!

It leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

I really like the game, but... It pisses me off. (MtGO)

Basically, I just like it when the game WORKS.



As for the offline mode thing... yeah... just nutty.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

wraith808

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Re: Steam: Savior or Slayer of PC Gaming?
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2011, 12:59:35 PM »
^ Ummm... have you tried this recently?  All you have to do is restart, and it will ask you to go to offline mode.  They fixed that a long time ago.

Tried it yesterday lol, It refused point blank to go into offline mode, which means I cant even play Supreme Commander 2 in offline mode :(

Did you quit steam then restart?  That's when it asks you if you want to go into offline mode?  You can't just start the game, you have to restart steam in my experience.

Deozaan

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Re: Steam: Savior or Slayer of PC Gaming?
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2011, 02:33:14 PM »
So is it just me, or do other people have as big a hangup about gaming over the web (and generally consider the whole thing a mistake) as I do?

I enjoy gaming over the web because I don't have visitors very often and I don't have multiple computers to play the games I want to play.

I do not (usually) enjoy gaming over the web with strangers, especially competitively. I prefer cooperation or at least I prefer to know some/most of the people I'm playing with, even if I don't know them "IRL" but just as online friends/acquaintances.


wraith808

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Re: Steam: Savior or Slayer of PC Gaming?
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2011, 03:03:28 PM »
So is it just me, or do other people have as big a hangup about gaming over the web (and generally consider the whole thing a mistake) as I do?

I enjoy gaming over the web because I don't have visitors very often and I don't have multiple computers to play the games I want to play.

I do not (usually) enjoy gaming over the web with strangers, especially competitively. I prefer cooperation or at least I prefer to know some/most of the people I'm playing with, even if I don't know them "IRL" but just as online friends/acquaintances.

This.  Though even though I don't game with strangers, I don't begrudge anyone that does, nor think that its a mistake.

seekerpat

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Re: Steam: Savior or Slayer of PC Gaming?
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2011, 04:35:01 PM »
Haven't had any issues with Steam yet but one online gaming store I love is GOG. They have classic games for short money, no DRM (awesome!) and they tweak the games to run on current systems. Once you buy it, you own it-you can download as many times as you want and don't have to be online to play. Very clean and simple.  And they include cool stuff like soundtracks , wallpapers, avatars, etc.

Nice business model, wish there were more like them. Pretty lively community too  :P

steeladept

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Re: Steam: Savior or Slayer of PC Gaming?
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2011, 10:01:56 AM »
So is it just me, or do other people have as big a hangup about gaming over the web (and generally consider the whole thing a mistake) as I do?
I am with you 100% on this.  The only difference is I know why I like the media and it goes back to (essentially) what Renegade is getting at.  I already installed it, now let me play it.  I don't want to be forced to connect so you can check that I have a license, I don't care if you want to install updates - maybe I don't, and most of all I don't want to have to connect so you can remove it for me (okay, so this hasn't happened anywhere I know of, but that whole ebook thing with Amazon - it has me more than a little rattled on buying anything digital only.  If I pay for the media and you go bankrupt, or decide you don't want it out there, or whatever; I still have what I bought).

To me, the biggest advantage to online gaming is the streamlining of multiplayer.  I don't play multiplayer for the same reasons listed above (well maybe occasionally on my own LAN, but that is different anyway).  Why should I bother with connecting to anything?  Lastly, what happens if I want to game disconnected (as I normally do?)  Some let you, some don't; but all programs that you truly load from local media do?  NOTE:  I say "truly" so readers don't try to tell me about those where you load setup files that still require a connection to the internet to download and install the rest of the files....That isn't truly a local media load.

EDIT:  There is one exception I have to this though - If I can download a full install onto my own media and still use it independent of the seller's site (or internet connection after the download/install for that matter), then I don't have a problem with that - it is only with these sites that try to get you to use them AS YOUR MEDIA that scares the hell out of me.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 10:05:47 AM by steeladept »

JavaJones

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Re: Steam: Savior or Slayer of PC Gaming?
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2011, 03:59:04 PM »
Sad thing is if you're a gamer, you're likely going to end up with the requirement to be online to game (or at least *have* an Internet connection for activation) whether you're on Steam or not. See recent Ubisoft games for example...

- Oshyan

wraith808

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Re: Steam: Savior or Slayer of PC Gaming?
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2011, 04:52:31 PM »
Sad thing is if you're a gamer, you're likely going to end up with the requirement to be online to game (or at least *have* an Internet connection for activation) whether you're on Steam or not. See recent Ubisoft games for example...

There was enough of an outcry against this practice that they backed away from it.  That's the key thing- if it hurts the bottom line, they won't do it.  That's the only thing that they learn from.  And a large enough bloc has to have the willingness to do so.

Deozaan

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Re: Steam: Savior or Slayer of PC Gaming?
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2011, 06:28:56 AM »
Sad thing is if you're a gamer, you're likely going to end up with the requirement to be online to game (or at least *have* an Internet connection for activation) whether you're on Steam or not. See recent Ubisoft games for example...

There was enough of an outcry against this practice that they backed away from it.  That's the key thing- if it hurts the bottom line, they won't do it.  That's the only thing that they learn from.  And a large enough bloc has to have the willingness to do so.

They removed it, but they're bringing it back again for new games. Ubisoft says always-on DRM is 'a success,' fans are confused.

Quote
Ubisoft said it has seen "a clear reduction in piracy of our titles which required a persistent online connection, and from that point of view the requirement is a success," speaking with PC Gamer.


Stephen66515

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Re: Steam: Savior or Slayer of PC Gaming?
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2011, 08:08:05 AM »
Sad thing is if you're a gamer, you're likely going to end up with the requirement to be online to game (or at least *have* an Internet connection for activation) whether you're on Steam or not. See recent Ubisoft games for example...

There was enough of an outcry against this practice that they backed away from it.  That's the key thing- if it hurts the bottom line, they won't do it.  That's the only thing that they learn from.  And a large enough bloc has to have the willingness to do so.

They removed it, but they're bringing it back again for new games. Ubisoft says always-on DRM is 'a success,' fans are confused.

Quote
Ubisoft said it has seen "a clear reduction in piracy of our titles which required a persistent online connection, and from that point of view the requirement is a success," speaking with PC Gamer.

Im sorry, but 'Always-on' DRM is going to punish those who want to play the game, but may be having internet problems.  Pirates are not going to simply give up and buy the game instead, they will just look for something else, or wait for someone to figure out how to break that DRM, and then those who have lost internet connection for ANY reason will simply aquire a cracked version to play offline.

I have several games in my collection that I did not realise had this stupid DRM crap in it, so while I was in the process of moving my ISP services to my new property, I was obviously without internet for awhile.  During that time I would have LOVED to be able to load up said games to play them, but low and behold, I got the stupid "Please make sure your connected to the internet and try again" messages! - wtf, those games are OFFLINE ONLY, I PAID FOR THEM...LET ME PLAY THEM!

Buyers can and will become pirates, but pirates will rarely ever become buyers.  Game companies simply do not understand this fact.  They say piracy harms developers, but in my view i would rather reward those who purchase, but in the same respect, be thankful of those who USE it.  I have pirated several things for several different reasons (usually lack of money to try out big software titles that would otherwise cost thousands to play with).  The difference is though, if I could afford, I would have bought them instead!

40hz

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Re: Steam: Savior or Slayer of PC Gaming?
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2011, 08:41:18 AM »
Buyers can and will become pirates, but pirates will rarely ever become buyers.  Game companies simply do not understand this fact.

I think that's one of the most insightful comments ever made about the real problem with DRM.

Well said Stephen!


wraith808

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Re: Steam: Savior or Slayer of PC Gaming?
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2011, 12:27:07 PM »
Agreed +1

And one of the comments from that post:

Quote
cracked versions of the constant drm and closed off games alike tend ot actualy be better in the performance seciton compared to drm filled games!! wtf arghh!

This is truly the WTF moment about the DRM.  :huh:
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 12:31:58 PM by wraith808 »