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Author Topic: PHP... is the name self-realizing?  (Read 4381 times)

CodeTRUCKER

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PHP... is the name self-realizing?
« on: July 22, 2011, 03:18:27 PM »
PHP, which stands for "PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor"

I recently read these words and it struck me odd.  If the "P" in "PHP" stands for "PHP" what does the "P," "H" and "P" stand for in the first "P" in "PHP?"

Reminds me of an ontological paradox, like the iconic "watch" in the movie, "Somewhere in Time."  

Just musing...

worstje

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Re: PHP... is the name self-realizing?
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2011, 03:25:39 PM »
Wikipedia has the answer:

Quote
While PHP originally stood for "Personal Home Page", it is now said to stand for "PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor", a recursive acronym.

CodeTRUCKER

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Re: PHP... is the name self-realizing?
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2011, 03:31:11 PM »
Wikipedia has the answer:

Quote
While PHP originally stood for "Personal Home Page", it is now said to stand for "PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor", a recursive acronym.

If that is the case then PHP actually stands for "Personal Home Page Hypertext Preprocessor."   :P

I almost tried to create a number of back references into the acronyms and names, but got lost in the recursive recursions.  ;D

f0dder

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Re: PHP... is the name self-realizing?
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2011, 05:38:39 PM »
PHP stands for "Puke, Heave, Pop a few valiums" - because that's the reaction you'll get when looking at a lot of PHP code out there ;)

Not everything is that bad, some programmers manage to build decent sites, and there's decent frameworks. But just like with VB, the majority you stumble into is... abysmal. And the standard library is a clusterfsck, and the core language have some oddities and issues here and there.

It's not my first choice if I was to start a web project, but if you're under budget constraints that means you have to pick a cheap host, you can still do good things with it. You need skilled non-hotshot developers though.
- carpe noctem

CodeTRUCKER

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Re: PHP... is the name self-realizing?
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2011, 05:57:20 PM »
f0dder - I can always depend on a practical perspective when I read your comments.  :Thmbsup:

Well, when it comes to the development team... you're *looking* at it, er him. 

Yep, I'm all I've got, but I would still like to hear what would be your first choices, if PHP isn't?  I'm going to have to learn whatever syntax I use because I have never done more than basic HTML, so I'll be doing a "helloworld.[fill-in-the-blank]" before I do anything else as far as coding.  Go ahead... clue me in!

mwb1100

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Re: PHP... is the name self-realizing?
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2011, 06:08:08 PM »
I recently read these words and it struck me odd.  If the "P" in "PHP" stands for "PHP" what does the "P," "H" and "P" stand for in the first "P" in "PHP?"

Programmers seem to like these clever 'recursive' acronyms.  The earliest one that I know of off the top of my head is "GNU" which stands for "GNU's Not Unix", and that was the intended meaning right from the start in 1983.

But, since programmers (especially the early ones) often have a mathematical bent,  I'm sure there are several examples earlier than that I'm just not aware of.  Well, now I know some because I just Googled about these things.

Another example is Wine: "Wine Is Not an Emulator", but the acronym started off meaning "WINdows Emulator"


But like worstje said, the recursive meaning was devised after the fact - a not uncommon activity with it's own name: "backronym".

Stoic Joker

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Re: PHP... is the name self-realizing?
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2011, 06:11:16 PM »
PHP, which stands for "PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor"

I have gone forth, googled, and seen thus as you say ... But it is just by far and wide to absurd to accept. I shall therefore, take it upon myself to makeup an entirely new word. So I may henceforth insist that that is indeed its true meaning.

PHP: Pugnullfific Hypertext Preprocessor.


While pugnullfific has no specific meaning it is incredibly fun to say...Yes, I have been drinking.

f0dder

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Re: PHP... is the name self-realizing?
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2011, 06:32:34 PM »
Yep, I'm all I've got, but I would still like to hear what would be your first choices, if PHP isn't?  I'm going to have to learn whatever syntax I use because I have never done more than basic HTML, so I'll be doing a "helloworld.[fill-in-the-blank]" before I do anything else as far as coding.  Go ahead... clue me in!
To be honest, I don't know enough about web frameworks to choose The One To Rule Them All - and that would probably depend on the phase of the moon. Look at what your client uses currently - don't choose JUST that, but base your decision on it. Easier said than done :)

Some current good choices seems to be Ruby On Rails, something based on Sling (Java), the Play! framework, CakePHP or Yii.

Anything but PHP will probably cost a lot in hosting, so you'll probably want something PHP based. The most important thing is choosing a frawework instead of hand-rolling everything - it will be a MAJOR learning curve, but unless you're dealing with a really trivially small site, it will pay off in the end.

If you go the PHP route, there's some things to keep in mind:
1) use your chosen framework for as much as possible, unless it doesn't make sense and make you feel cramped
2) NEVER, never EVER construct SQL queries using string concatenation (the PHP '.' operator). Use the capabilities of your framework, or at the very least Parameterized statements. Or die.
3) Be very careful around the standard library - especially when dealing with string or date functions. Those are two of the major PHP shortcomings, and are full of pitfalls. SEEK HELP! :)
- carpe noctem

Renegade

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Re: PHP... is the name self-realizing?
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2011, 07:00:28 PM »
But like worstje said, the recursive meaning was devised after the fact - a not uncommon activity with it's own name: "backronym".

My favorite backronym is actually wrong, though if you search for it, you'll get a tonne of results: SLAYER - Satan Laughs As You Eternally Rot.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

kyrathaba

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Re: PHP... is the name self-realizing?
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2011, 09:41:59 PM »
CodeTRUCKER, while I agree with Fodder that a lot of the PHP code you run into is a mess, and that PHP itself has some pitfalls, I can testify that in a few days piddling with it I was able to hack up the code to run my primary NANY 2012 entry's web-based database.  So, it can be done.  I have to say, I don't like the language much, and the layout of the online help manual?  Meh...
« Last Edit: July 22, 2011, 09:50:28 PM by kyrathaba »

Renegade

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Re: PHP... is the name self-realizing?
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2011, 12:59:43 AM »
To me, PHP seems to be a solid and capable language, but it also seems to suffer from many of the disadvantages of Perl (fugly in the extreme).

I'd like to get started on doing more with PHP though. My main thing would be to get a plugin to make it more friendly in Visual Studio. I'm just addicted to the way Visual Studio makes things so much easier. I really don't care about focusing on the code so much, as I'm more interested in getting things done. VS makes that so much nicer. Type. Compile. Run debug. Find errors/debug. Fix. Move on to next step. If I could get that with PHP, wow... I'd be a happy camper. :)
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

CodeTRUCKER

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Re: PHP... is the name self-realizing?
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2011, 01:38:08 AM »
... If I could get that with PHP, wow... I'd be a happy camper. :)

Then I take it "if" means there is no such animal, eh?

mahesh2k

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Re: PHP... is the name self-realizing?
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2011, 02:58:10 AM »
My 2 cents on web dev langs.

  • Java - too much clutter with frameworks and hosting is expensive too.
  • ASP.Net - It's hard to find linux host with asp.net support and most of the time you're stuck with windows hosting. It's quick for development but problem is again with hosting and finding clients. My experience with asp.net sites (corporate) erm they're damn slow.
  • Php- works with eclipse, php designer, notepad (or with any text editor). Works on cheap linux or windows hosting with postgresql and mysql or any other online db. Many frameworks to waste time and plenty of projects and clients to get from any random freelancing site.

There is ruby and python to experiment if you want but expect steep learning curve while deploying them on server. Cpanel based hosts are not friendly for python and have complicated instructions for deploying ruby on rails projects..

Renegade

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Re: PHP... is the name self-realizing?
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2011, 03:22:57 AM »
Works on cheap linux or windows hosting with postgresql and mysql or any other online db.

I would qualify that as "Sometimes works on cheap windows..."

The first thing to know when you try to configure PHP on Windows is that you need to go through the PHP extensions and add them in one-by-one so you know which ones break everything. It's not like they just throw an error and die -- they kill PHP completely. No such thing as graceful errors... It's kind of like that hard-core psycho in the movies - if I die, then everyone else is gonna die with me~! :P

The next thing to know is that most of the coolest and most useful extensions for PHP are the ones that break on Windows... :(

PHP on Windows is finicky at best. I wouldn't ever want to use a Windows server for a serious PHP site. Or at least not a WIMP server. Maybe WAMP is better. Haven't tried WAMP there. (Though I've wanted to for some time now... Previously I've read that it's simply a beast to setup. Maybe things are better now.)


Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

kyrathaba

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Re: PHP... is the name self-realizing?
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2011, 01:53:43 PM »
Quote
(fugly in the extreme).


+1

kyrathaba

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Re: PHP... is the name self-realizing?
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2011, 06:31:23 AM »

CodeTRUCKER

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Re: PHP... is the name self-realizing?
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2011, 10:57:13 AM »
CT,

For what it's worth, PHP can be used with the Azure Framework.

Thanks, I'll look into it.  One thing I could use some guidance on is if it's better to begin learning PHP "in the raw" and move to a framework later or to start in a framework which has an emphasis on "getting started" (CakePHP, CodeIgniter, etc.)?

Also, is the "framework" for PHP the same thing as an "IDE" in another language or am I missing a basic(?) concept here?

f0dder

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Re: PHP... is the name self-realizing?
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2011, 12:21:42 PM »
Also, is the "framework" for PHP the same thing as an "IDE" in another language or am I missing a basic(?) concept here?
No.

An IDE is your "text editor on steroids with project management and whatnot", framework is "all the library code on steroids" :) (a 'library' is pre-written code you can call; a 'framework' is something you adapt your code to, in exchange of standardized layout and rapid development speed.)
- carpe noctem

CodeTRUCKER

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Re: PHP... is the name self-realizing?
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2011, 04:23:36 PM »
...
An IDE is your "text editor on steroids with project management and whatnot", framework is "all the library code on steroids" :) (a 'library' is pre-written code you can call; a 'framework' is something you adapt your code to, in exchange of standardized layout and rapid development speed.)

Thanks Man, now it's clear.  :Thmbsup:

kyrathaba

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Re: PHP... is the name self-realizing?
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2011, 06:33:42 PM »
Quote
One thing I could use some guidance on is if it's better to begin learning PHP "in the raw" and move to a framework later or to start in a framework which has an emphasis on "getting started" (CakePHP, CodeIgniter, etc.)?

I would recommend you start with basic PHP.  It's use is ubiquitous and, like .NET, there are plentiful code samples online; also like with .NET, many of those code samples suck ;)  But seriously, PHP-usage is extremely broad, and if you get proficient at it, it's applications are equally broad.  You can always narrow you focus to a specific platform later, but even those (Azure, etc.) are built up from a basic web-programming language.

mitzevo

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Re: PHP... is the name self-realizing?
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2011, 01:23:00 PM »
PHP is solid, just depends on your coding practices. There are lot's of web dev frameworks for PHP such as Zend, CakePHP, CodeIgniter, and a good templating system called Smarty which many popular opensource web apps use.

Ruby has Rails for web development (Ruby on Rails)
Python has Django
Perl has .. not sure, never checked!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Web_application_frameworks

Speaking of recursive acronyms: Linux is not unix :)
The clock is running. Make the most of today. Time waits for no man. Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is a mystery. Today is a gift. That's why it is called the present.