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Author Topic: How necessary is the UAC in Windows 7?  (Read 16384 times)
f0dder
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« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2011, 04:13:57 PM »

I should add, however, that with or without the elevated status, Dreamweaver still gets challenged by UAC every time I start it.
Aaaah, there you've got your problem, then - DW have been running with administrative privileges all the time, which is why AW couldn't control it until you ran that with administrative privileges as well.

The thing to keep in mind is that UAC 'dumbs down' your administrative account pretty much to the level of a Limited User Account - so by default, applications don't have a lot of control.

Haven't used DW since version 2, but it was already fast becoming a monster back then. Dunno why it would require admin privs, can't think of a good reason for it, but as Stoic Joker says it could be (stupid) registry access, or it could be (stupid) attempts at accessing folders it really shouldn't be accessing smiley
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cyberdiva
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« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2011, 04:48:57 PM »

Aaaah, there you've got your problem, then - DW have been running with administrative privileges all the time, which is why AW couldn't control it until you ran that with administrative privileges as well.

I'm not sure I follow you.  Why do you say that DW has been running with administrative privileges all the time?

Yes, I agree, DW is something of a monster, but it's the monster I know  smiley .  It was bought for me at work some years ago, and I've used it ever since.  I suspect that if it were to go belly up, I wouldn't shell out the big bucks to replace it, but as long as it works, I'm happy with it.
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cyberdiva
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« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2011, 04:59:56 PM »

It might be worth a shot to give yourself permission to the Dreamweaver registry keys (HKLM/Software/[author]/Dreamweaver/...)to get UAC to hush when it loads.

Thanks, Stoic Joker, for this interesting suggestion.  However, I try to limit messing with the Registry to times when I really have to.  Since I've more or less gotten used to UAC's "do you want to use this?" stupidity, I'm probably best off leaving well enough alone.  But I do plan to bookmark your suggestion in case my patience starts to wear thin.  smiley
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f0dder
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« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2011, 05:06:53 PM »

Aaaah, there you've got your problem, then - DW have been running with administrative privileges all the time, which is why AW couldn't control it until you ran that with administrative privileges as well.
I'm not sure I follow you.  Why do you say that DW has been running with administrative privileges all the time?
As soon as you click "yes" on an UAC prompt, the application that's prompting is granted administrative privileges.
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cyberdiva
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« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2011, 05:23:01 PM »

As soon as you click "yes" on an UAC prompt, the application that's prompting is granted administrative privileges.

Ah, I see.  Thanks.
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Shades
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« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2011, 05:39:02 PM »

Another (long) shot to try is to virtualize the DW / AW combo on XP and use the result on Windows 7.

The Cameyo virtuaization software gives you the option to lock this combo down after it is done virtualizing. By locking down, I mean that no access to registry or secured folders is allowed. Actually, DW still thinks it has access to the registry, but in reality it is constrained to its "sandbox".

Using the virtualized version in Windows 7 should not trigger UAC notifications anymore.

However I have to include this disclaimer:
Virtualizing multiple applications into one does not always work, so your mileage will vary.
 
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cyberdiva
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« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2011, 06:24:59 PM »

Thanks, Shades, for the suggestion.  However, at the moment I consider clicking on the UAC prompt a minor annoyance and thus not worth trying to circumvent via virtualization, Registry changes, or other efforts.  I'm really pleased to know that these possibilities exist, but I don't think I'll pursue them for something as minor as having to click on a UAC prompt.
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f0dder
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« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2011, 06:52:09 PM »

Which DreamWeaver version are you using, by the way? Perhaps somebody else has figured out a way to get rid of UAC prompts from it smiley
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« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2011, 07:27:41 PM »

I'm using the version that was bought for me at work some years back, MX2004.
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justice
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« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2011, 03:33:56 AM »

It will not be compatible with Windows 7 because that didn't exist at the time of making MX2004. Since then we've had Dreamweaver CS, Dreamweaver CS2, Dreamweaver CS3, Dreamweaver CS4, Dreamweaver CS5.
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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2011, 05:06:11 AM »

Even Dreamweaver CS4 is not compat with windows 7 64-bit (according to MS WIn7 compat list) but it is with 32 bit. It doesn't mention earlier versions except DW 8 which is not comap with Windows 7 at all and that is newer than MX2004 which isn't even mentioned.

See http://www.microsoft.com/...dows-7/en-us/default.aspx

Having said that I have CS 3 which seems to work on WIndows 7 Pro 64-bit (though I haven't used it much).

According to Adobe the only products tested to work correctly in Windows 7 are the CS3-CS5 products. And even then there are some issues with CS3. See http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/508/cpsid_50853.html

Why not run an XP VM and run your Dreamweaver in there?
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 05:19:52 AM by Carol Haynes » Logged

cyberdiva
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« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2011, 08:41:54 AM »

Why not run an XP VM and run your Dreamweaver in there?

Thanks for the suggestion, Carol, but I haven't found any serious problems running my version of Dreamweaver on Win 7 64-bit.  I expected to have problems with lots of programs, since I have some dating back to the 1990s.  But so far, I think the only thing I couldn't run was a program related to my Canon SD1000 camera that shows me what's on my camera's memory card and allows me to transfer the files I want to my hard drive.  But I can get all the information I need just by going to My Computer and looking at the listings for my camera's memory card.  So I don't see any compelling reason to install an XP VM.  I might add that I'd like to keep this computer as lean as possible (a challenge, since I'm a software nut  smiley ).
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f0dder
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« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2011, 08:46:02 AM »

It will not be compatible with Windows 7 because that didn't exist at the time of making MX2004. Since then we've had Dreamweaver CS, Dreamweaver CS2, Dreamweaver CS3, Dreamweaver CS4, Dreamweaver CS5.
A silly argument.

All it takes to be compatible with Win7 (and 64bit versions too) is pretty much sticking with application design guidelines that have been around since NT4. Sure, you won't be utilizing jumplists and libraries, but you'll be running without problems.
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« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2011, 10:18:14 AM »

I don't see any compelling reason to install an XP VM.  I might add that I'd like to keep this computer as lean as possible (a challenge, since I'm a software nut  smiley ).

Maybe not an XP VM just for Dreamweaver. But you might want to consider installing something like the more versatile VirtualBox if you're a software nut. Why settle for just one OS when you can have several? That would allow you to set up virtually any host environment you want to test any software that catches your fancy. And without running the risk of screwing up your machine. Just let the clock toll midnight, so to speak, and your snazzy VM turns back into a pumpkin. No harm done - no matter what.

Lots to like.  Cool


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Don't you see? It's turtles all the way down!
Stoic Joker
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« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2011, 11:26:35 AM »

Why settle for just one OS when you can have several? That would allow you to set up virtually any host environment you want to test any software that catches your fancy. And without running the risk of screwing up your machine.

+111  cheesy


@f0dder - I saw that one coming (hehe). Here's one of my favorite examples Jasc Image Commander written in 1996, running perfectly on Windows 7, without using any compatibility mode support.

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tomos
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« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2011, 02:04:11 PM »

I've reread the thread an amn't fully clear about admin vs. user accounts.

The thing to keep in mind is that UAC 'dumbs down' your administrative account pretty much to the level of a Limited User Account - so by default, applications don't have a lot of control.

so is it okay securitywise to use UAC at highest setting with an admin account - or better to do it with a user account?

- newly installed Win7, all I need is one account, but if I make that one user, I presume I have to create an admin account as well (first).
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Tom
Carol Haynes
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« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2011, 03:58:54 PM »

UAC effectively turns admin accounts into user accounts but with automatic prompts to elevated security when required.
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Deozaan
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« Reply #42 on: July 23, 2011, 04:11:04 PM »

I guess you already figured this out, but I felt it could use repeating:

Just because your account is an administrator account doesn't mean every program you run is run with Administrator privileges.

For the problematic applications, you should still go into the compatibility settings and check the "Run this program as an Administrator" option. Then it will always give you a UAC prompt when it first runs, but shouldn't have any problems doing what it needs to do after that.

EDIT: I'm not sure how it took me ~15 minutes to write this tiny post, but Carol's post just above mine wasn't here before I wrote this. Naturally she said exactly what I was trying to say, but was more succinct. Thmbsup

EDIT2: Aha! I didn't notice that there were 2 pages to this thread. That explains why I didn't see Carol's post. embarassed
« Last Edit: July 23, 2011, 04:14:19 PM by Deozaan » Logged

tomos
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« Reply #43 on: July 24, 2011, 02:27:27 PM »

thanks Carol + Deo - I guess I'll stick with my admin account then, makes startup easier with just one account...

I guess you already figured this out, but I felt it could use repeating:

Just because your account is an administrator account doesn't mean every program you run is run with Administrator privileges.

For the problematic applications, you should still go into the compatibility settings and check the "Run this program as an Administrator" option. Then it will always give you a UAC prompt when it first runs, but shouldn't have any problems doing what it needs to do after that.

EDIT: I'm not sure how it took me ~15 minutes to write this tiny post, but Carol's post just above mine wasn't here before I wrote this. Naturally she said exactly what I was trying to say, but was more succinct. Thmbsup
my emphasis
I know what you mean (succinct I am not) but your longer version helped the implications sink in fully.


EDIT2: Aha! I didn't notice that there were 2 pages to this thread. That explains why I didn't see Carol's post. embarassed

 . . . gotta find another excuse there Deo :p - you were answering my post [ I think embarassed ] which was already on page #2 cheesy
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Tom
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« Reply #44 on: July 24, 2011, 05:03:58 PM »

EDIT2: Aha! I didn't notice that there were 2 pages to this thread. That explains why I didn't see Carol's post. embarassed

 . . . gotta find another excuse there Deo :p - you were answering my post [ I think embarassed ] which was already on page #2 cheesy

Actually I was just providing the general info to Cyberdiva, who at the beginning (first page) of the thread didn't seem to understand why UAC would prompt her for admin privileges (or why it would be necessary to use the "Always run as Administrator" option) when she was already using an Administrator account.

But it looks like you also just happened to be wondering the same thing. Thmbsup
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tomos
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« Reply #45 on: July 25, 2011, 03:36:20 AM »

EDIT2: Aha! I didn't notice that there were 2 pages to this thread. That explains why I didn't see Carol's post. embarassed

 . . . gotta find another excuse there Deo :p - you were answering my post [ I think embarassed ] which was already on page #2 cheesy

Actually I was just providing the general info to Cyberdiva, who at the beginning (first page) of the thread didn't seem to understand why UAC would prompt her for admin privileges (or why it would be necessary to use the "Always run as Administrator" option) when she was already using an Administrator account.

But it looks like you also just happened to be wondering the same thing. Thmbsup

there I go for getting smart cheesy
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Tom
tomos
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« Reply #46 on: August 01, 2011, 03:36:55 PM »

One of the things that really freaks me out using UAC is that the screen goes black before the dialogue box shows - the void seems to vary in length depending on the "extremity" of what you're trying to do.

If it's just a flash of a black screen it's fine - but when the screen just goes black and looks like it's going to stay that way, my blood (still) runs cold. I mean it's maybe only a second but still.... I could do with as little torture as possible at the moment, especially what with recovering from a sudden-pc-death and trying to adjust to a new OS.
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Tom
cyberdiva
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« Reply #47 on: August 01, 2011, 08:07:08 PM »

You might try taking your UAC settings down a notch (to one up from the bottom).  As I understand it, you get notified just as often as with the setting above it, but your screen doesn't go black at all.
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f0dder
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« Reply #48 on: August 02, 2011, 03:44:17 PM »

You might try taking your UAC settings down a notch (to one up from the bottom).  As I understand it, you get notified just as often as with the setting above it, but your screen doesn't go black at all.
Doing that renders UAC pretty much useless. And while the flicker-to-black is a bit annoying, it's a sign that UAC really is kicking in and you aren't being faked smiley
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cyberdiva
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« Reply #49 on: August 02, 2011, 04:45:59 PM »

Doing that renders UAC pretty much useless. And while the flicker-to-black is a bit annoying, it's a sign that UAC really is kicking in and you aren't being faked smiley
F0dder, I think "pretty much useless" is an overstatement.  You get the same notifications that you'd get in the next highest setting, but without the screen going black.  Microsoft explains that because the UAC dialog box isn't on the secure desktop with the setting I suggested, "other programs might be able to interfere with the dialog's visual appearance.  This is a small security risk if you already have a malicious program running on your computer."  The risk is obviously more than with a higher setting, but I don't think I'd say that UAC is rendered "pretty much useless" with the lower setting.

I don't mind the screen going black, but tomos seemed to find it very unpleasant, and it apparently lasted longer on his computer than on mine.  If having the screen go black really bugs someone, they might well wind up turning UAC completely off.  That would render it useless.
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