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Author Topic: A New Twist in Wikipedia?  (Read 2285 times)

Renegade

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A New Twist in Wikipedia?
« on: June 19, 2011, 11:52:01 AM »
I saw this on a Wikipedia page, but haven't seen it since:

Screenshot - 6_19_2011 , 4_14_04 PM.png

Has anyone seen that?

I think it's a fantastic addition as I've seen some Wikipedia articles that have been flat out dominated by massively slanted views.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

40hz

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Re: A New Twist in Wikipedia?
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2011, 12:03:52 PM »
Haven't seen it.

But I think it's going to be a real boon to all the crank organizations (lifers, neocons, Apple fanboys, etc.) since it will let them organize slams against anything they disagree with instead of just writing endless e-mails that nobody by the Wikipedia staff used to have to see or deal with.

Isn't democracy a grand thing?

(But what is 'democracy' other than a form of government where rule by 400 craven idiots is considered to be vastly preferable to rule by one mad king...) :P


rgdot

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Re: A New Twist in Wikipedia?
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2011, 12:34:33 PM »
Wikipedia or similar efforts will never find a way to remove slanted views, wrong information, etc. completely. You either have full editorial control or not (and all that comes with each set up) ... there is no real workable way that is a mix. We and they should be happy with what has been achieved with Wikipedia considering what the internet 'allows'.

Renegade

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Re: A New Twist in Wikipedia?
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2011, 09:24:05 PM »
Isn't democracy a grand thing?

(But what is 'democracy' other than a form of government where rule by 400 craven idiots is considered to be vastly preferable to rule by one mad king...) :P

Hahaha~!

I listen to Australian parliament on the radio quite often, and wow... They're more than capable of proving that democracy can be just as <insert something about diminished mental capacity here /> as anywhere else.

(Skipping the part about exactly how democratic democracy actually is...)
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

zridling

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Re: A New Twist in Wikipedia?
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2011, 01:09:30 AM »
Haven't seen it either, but not sure I'd trust the rating until I read the article (assuming I was expert on the subject).

mashmata

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Re: A New Twist in Wikipedia?
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2011, 05:01:17 AM »
I saw this on a Wikipedia page, but haven't seen it since:
 (see attachment in previous post)
Has anyone seen that?

I think it's a fantastic addition as I've seen some Wikipedia articles that have been flat out dominated by massively slanted views.

I guess the idea with this is that they look at the average stats within a framework rather than just haphazardly replying to random users
Remember: Don't Insult the Alligator till after you cross the river.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 07:40:18 AM by mashmata »

IainB

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Re: A New Twist in Wikipedia?
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2011, 07:20:25 AM »
I do not understand. This folly makes me want to rant.
How, exactly, could it be considered to be a "good thing" to give the people who read Wikipedia articles the opportunity to rate whether they think the articles are:
  • Trustworthy
  • Objective
  • Complete
  • Well-written?
This is just an opinion poll, there is probably nothing intentionally democratic about it, and it would be incorrect to say that opinion polls prove anything other than what a relatively narrow and non-random sampling of general opinion might be about a thing.
Therefore, unless you are attempting to forecast something like (say) election polling results, if you extrapolate the results of the poll in an attempt to indicate that it is significant - i.e., that it actually means/indicates a valid truth or argument - then you are on a hiding to nothing.

For example, surely millions of Germans couldn't have been wrong about their Austrian leader called Hitler - could they? Well, yes they could have been, and they apparently were - big time.

It is not possible to attempt to ameliorate the mediocre state of something written by the unqualified and uninformed in Wikipedia by saying "Well, it has the consensus of the majority of equally unqualified and uninformed readers (peers), so it must be true/correct."
That would be a non-sequitur.
You don't vote on a logical argument to prove whether it is right. The argument must be able to stand the hard light of scrutiny - of critical thinking and the test of reason - before it can be said to be correct/true.
"Nullius in verbo." Motto of the Royal Society, London. Take nobody's word for it; see for yourself.

I am embarrassed to admit that I had created a few Wikipedia articles and contributed to several more, before this epiphany hit me. Now I only create and update Google knols, with chosen collaborators (where I can find them) who are at least as qualified as I am in the subject in question. I became tired of the irrational, biased, self-important and ignorant edits and comments on Wikipedia, and the seemingly perpetual moronic or ignorant vandalism. In a knol there is stability and control. The quality of the result is likely to be as good as the minimum quality and depth of knowledge of the authors/contributors.

I was brought up to use and explore Grolier's Children's Encyclopaedia (a set of volumes), and later the Encyclopaedia Britannica (an even bigger set of volumes)    :Thmbsup:   - from the age of 11 years.
EB could never have been able to achieve and then maintain its authoritative standing if it had not been meticulous and rigorous in its choice of academic contributors and the peer review of their contributions - and I don't mean the fatuous so-called "peer review process" of the IPCC climate material. "Scientific consensus"? Yeah, right. And I believe in fairies too.

For these and other, lesser, reasons, it is difficult to see how Wikipedia could be regarded as being able to even approach authoritative credibility. If Wikipedia editors believe that there is some sound rationale for implementing such a poll, then they are compounding the folly. Deming would be rolling in his grave.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 07:26:48 AM by IainB »

mahesh2k

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Re: A New Twist in Wikipedia?
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2011, 08:06:27 AM »
I think every page with objection from experts or inquirer should have a link to talk page. That way if anyone changes article to reflect his/her political/religious or other beneficial views should get it sorted in that talk page and this talk page should be linked in respective page so that any such queries gets redirected. If pages get updated this way then surely quality of encyclopedia will be improved. In that case - Trustworthy,Objective,Complete,Well-written voting is not necessary. They need more moderators than such voting systems but i guess they're using stats from such voting polls to keep eye on such pages. Who knows what they're thinking with this experiment ?

40hz

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Re: A New Twist in Wikipedia?
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2011, 08:51:47 AM »
Who knows what they're thinking with this experiment ?

I suspect they're hoping to substitute the voting booth for responsibility as Hesse so nicely phrased it.

I've personally never had a great deal of belief in "the wisdom of crowds." Because while it may be true that different people have different opinions and standards, it's equally true that not every opinion or standard deserves, or should be given, equal weight. To do otherwise is to surrender to the lure of "magical thinking" and all the potential for harm that goes with it.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 08:53:21 AM by 40hz »

IainB

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Re: A New Twist in Wikipedia?
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2011, 09:25:56 AM »
@40hz: Wot you said. Hear, hear.   +1          :Thmbsup:
(Whoops! That's a vote innit?)      ;D
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 09:31:35 AM by IainB »