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Last post Author Topic: So Apple really is a religious thing...  (Read 11703 times)

JavaJones

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So Apple really is a religious thing...
« on: May 19, 2011, 11:00:09 AM »

Renegade

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Re: So Apple really is a religious thing...
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2011, 11:09:40 AM »
Oh god...  :-\
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

superboyac

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Re: So Apple really is a religious thing...
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2011, 11:24:39 AM »
I'm sure a lot of seemingly superficial things can be detected as "religious" brain activity.  I'll bet sports fans will have even more pronounced effects when thinking about their favorite teams or players.

JavaJones

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Re: So Apple really is a religious thing...
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2011, 11:33:37 AM »
Yep, and sports fans are often just as irrational and irritating as Apple fans. Your point? ;)

- Oshyan

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Re: So Apple really is a religious thing...
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2011, 11:36:44 AM »
I'm sure a lot of seemingly superficial things can be detected as "religious" brain activity.

Interesting point. I think they should then focus on the parts of the brain that shut off (logic, reason, attraction to women) when fan-bois view Apple stuff.

superboyac

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Re: So Apple really is a religious thing...
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2011, 12:42:49 PM »
I'm sure a lot of seemingly superficial things can be detected as "religious" brain activity.

Interesting point. I think they should then focus on the parts of the brain that shut off (logic, reason, attraction to women) when fan-bois view Apple stuff.
Well, if we're going to get philosophical about it...
I believe that most things that spark strong reactions like this require individuals to shut off some parts of the brain that deal with logic, reason.

This is new stuff for me, but I think that's what I believe.  If you can't "see" the logic of the opposing side, that's an indication that you are being just as "turned off" as the other side.  I don't think it's fair to say that people who use Windows are more "logical" about it than Apple fanboys.  A lot of people who use Apple put a high priority on it's ease of use.  it IS easier to deal with than Windows.  But we Windows people put our priorities not on ease of use, but on flexibility, power, freedom to use the computer our own way.  All these options add complexities to our computing lives.  But we value that freedom more than the ease of use.  Apple fanboys apply the same logic and reasoning towards Apple's ease of use and aesthetics.  Neither side is wrong or more logical than the other: just different priorities.

JavaJones

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Re: So Apple really is a religious thing...
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2011, 12:56:54 PM »
If Apple products were actually universally easier to use I might agree with you, but they're not. Yes at some surface level to a certain degree in the right circumstances when used only with other Apple products, etc, etc. they can be easier to use (though there are still plenty of quirks and issues!). Get them out of that idealized environment though and they can be just as difficult - if not more so - than modern versions of Windows. The problem I have with the Apple crowd then isn't that they value ease of use (hey, so do I!), it's that they identify Apple as essentially being the epitome of ease of use, generally ignoring all evidence to the contrary, whether it be inconsistencies and unintuitiveness in an Apple product, or really well implemented systems and tools on Windows.

Regardless of all that I've found *users* of Windows to be far less fanatical, dogmatic, and quite frankly passionate about their choice of platform. I become passionate about choosing Windows *only when Apple is offered as a supposedly better option*. When that's not the topic of conversation I don't go around talking about how great my Windows machine is, or how much I love the design of my new ASUS laptop (though its design is fairly nice), or how easy to use my Eee is. If and when I do talk about ease of use -and there is definitely a time and a place - it's generally about a specific product or feature. I avoid generalizing to the platform level almost entirely, i.e. I never say "Windows is so easy to use!" (unless it's in counterpoint to a statement about Apple). I'm much more likely to say "This piece of software is really well designed and easy to use", e.g. Picasa IMO. Even with products whose design and functionality I really like I can almost inevitably point out flaws and room for improvement, and it's that same critical eye, willingness to see and identify faults, and valuing of observed reality over promised and promoted ideal that I think most Apple fans lack.

- Oshyan

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Re: So Apple really is a religious thing...
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2011, 01:21:59 PM »
Oshyan, with all due respect, I think you're doing the same thing (on some level) as the Apple fanboys.  Both sides are not understanding the REAL reasons why they choose what they choose.
Quote
If Apple products were actually universally easier to use I might agree with you, but they're not.
I don't think this is correct.  Think of it this way.  Let's say you don't use computers that much, and you don't really care about computers.  But you have to use it because that's life.  So you are not consciously thinking "Wow, I can do so many things with this technology.  Can I do [this]?  How?  Can I do [that]?  How?"  This is the mistake you are making.  You are thinking that someone who buys Apple likes to think that way.  But most reasonable Apple users are thinking, "Oh shit, I have to use a computer?  Fine...how can I get this over with as soon as possible and get back to doing things I care about which has nothing to do with technology and computers?"  If you are that person, an Apple is easier to use.  If you're going to dispute that, I just think you are flat out wrong.

Quote
The problem I have with the Apple crowd then isn't that they value ease of use (hey, so do I!), it's that they identify Apple as essentially being the epitome of ease of use, generally ignoring all evidence to the contrary, whether it be inconsistencies and unintuitiveness in an Apple product, or really well implemented systems and tools on Windows.
Your mixing the same issue up again.  You are trying to think like yourself (the same way I think), yet trying to address the issue that someone like you and I don't put a priority on.  We don't put a high priority on ease of use, because we're so experienced that complicated things ARE easy to use for us.  But that doesn't mean the thing isn't complicated.  Apple users don't give a shit about "systems and tools".  You are thinking about things way deeper than anything that Apple users care about.  That doesn't make them wrong, or you "better".  All it says is that you care about different things.

Quote
Regardless of all that I've found *users* of Windows to be far less fanatical, dogmatic, and quite frankly passionate about their choice of platform.
That's because, first, you sympathize with them, so you are naturally going to be more at peace with them.  Secondly, people who prefer Windows are generally more experienced computer users than Apple users.  So talking about computer geek stuff logically with them will be a pleasant, practical discussion.  If you lived on a farm, and drove a tractor most of the time, and a city slicker came up to you and said "my Lexus is better than your tractor", it's silly.  What kind of discussion will take place?  Any argument or debate stemming from that will be inevitably unreasonable regardless of the best intentions of both parties.  You wouldn't drive a Lexus around a farm, and you wouldn't drive a tractor to the office.  What is there to argue?

JavaJones

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Re: So Apple really is a religious thing...
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2011, 02:52:13 PM »
Sorry but with all due respect it's you who are making assumptions.

Quote
If Apple products were actually universally easier to use I might agree with you, but they're not.
I don't think this is correct.  Think of it this way.  Let's say you don't use computers that much, and you don't really care about computers.  But you have to use it because that's life.  So you are not consciously thinking "Wow, I can do so many things with this technology.  Can I do [this]?  How?  Can I do [that]?  How?"  This is the mistake you are making.  You are thinking that someone who buys Apple likes to think that way.  But most reasonable Apple users are thinking, "Oh shit, I have to use a computer?  Fine...how can I get this over with as soon as possible and get back to doing things I care about which has nothing to do with technology and computers?"  If you are that person, an Apple is easier to use.  If you're going to dispute that, I just think you are flat out wrong.
I do dispute that. You call me wrong on what basis? You assume I am basing this solely on my own use of Apple products and my own preferences, yes? Incorrect. I am in fact basing this largely discussion with many Apple users - both serious and casual - and careful observation of the *reality* of Apple product use, not the rose-tinted version that Apple themselves and their fans like to tell you. For example I have a friend with an iPhone, he hates it, planning to replace it ASAP with an Android phone. Is he a Windows user? Yes he is, but he's very, very far from a computer expert, one could hardly even call him "savvy". And why does he hate his iPhone? iTunes, single button limitations, proprietary connectors and expensive accessories, and more. There have been previous discussion threads where I've pointed out several examples of clearly bad, unintuitive design in Apple products as well.

I've always wanted to do a fair, blind test using people with no experience of either platform to see which is *actually* more intuitive and easier to use, and I think until and unless something like that is done there will be no agreement on this debate. But I stand firm in my position that Apple's place as "easiest to use" is not as clear-cut and solid as claimed.

Quote
The problem I have with the Apple crowd then isn't that they value ease of use (hey, so do I!), it's that they identify Apple as essentially being the epitome of ease of use, generally ignoring all evidence to the contrary, whether it be inconsistencies and unintuitiveness in an Apple product, or really well implemented systems and tools on Windows.
Your mixing the same issue up again.  You are trying to think like yourself (the same way I think), yet trying to address the issue that someone like you and I don't put a priority on.  We don't put a high priority on ease of use, because we're so experienced that complicated things ARE easy to use for us.  But that doesn't mean the thing isn't complicated.  Apple users don't give a shit about "systems and tools".  You are thinking about things way deeper than anything that Apple users care about.  That doesn't make them wrong, or you "better".  All it says is that you care about different things.
Speak for yourself. I put a high priority on ease of use, *especially* in the gadget/portable electronic market that is increasingly Apple's main revenue source. Android was a completely new platform to me and I've never been comfortable with Linux, but I picked it up quickly and have generally enjoyed it. iPhone and I got along less well. I may have more complex needs, but not all my needs are complex and I still appreciate simplicity and good design. Meanwhile in critiquing my point you ignored the fact that what I am taking issue with is not so much the appreciation of *good* design and UI, but rather ignoring examples of *bad* design and UI and forming one's opinion on a filtered view of their *own* experience. This happens a lot in religion and any general fanaticism and I just can't get behind the "you care about different things" perspective as an explanation for that, unless what they care about is only agreeing with the makers of whatever they've purchased, in which case it's not an admirable position anyway.

Quote
Regardless of all that I've found *users* of Windows to be far less fanatical, dogmatic, and quite frankly passionate about their choice of platform.
That's because, first, you sympathize with them, so you are naturally going to be more at peace with them.  Secondly, people who prefer Windows are generally more experienced computer users than Apple users.  So talking about computer geek stuff logically with them will be a pleasant, practical discussion.  If you lived on a farm, and drove a tractor most of the time, and a city slicker came up to you and said "my Lexus is better than your tractor", it's silly.  What kind of discussion will take place?  Any argument or debate stemming from that will be inevitably unreasonable regardless of the best intentions of both parties.  You wouldn't drive a Lexus around a farm, and you wouldn't drive a tractor to the office.  What is there to argue?

I'm not talking about people who "prefer" Windows. Again with the assumptions. Preference of Windows indicates active choice based on that as a guiding factor. I'm mostly talking about people who either bought a Windows PC for cost reasons, or because it's all they've ever used and is what they're comfortable with. The vast, vast majority of people I know who use computers are *not* experts or particularly savvy. The whole point is that they don't make their use of a particular platform a major life choice, much less an identity issue, so they don't defend it fiercely or unreasonably. They have no *loyalty* to it besides that of practicality. Apple users have fierce brand loyalty and their annoying nature is akin to Sony fans in my book (although there are fewer and fewer of those these days :D).

Your comparison with a Lexus and a tractor doesn't really make sense to me. They are related in mechanics only, with totally different purposes. A discussion of brand loyalty between similarly capable and purposed systems seems better exemplified by comparison of the same in the car world, Lexus and Infinity perhaps? And there's where your analogy makes clear my argument: none of my friends drive *either*. None of my friends are buying Alienware or VoodooPC and bragging about it *either*. They're just using their computers to *do stuff*, and if you ask them why they use that particular computer, they have practical reasons for it. They are not always even logical, but they are reasonable. My friends drive a car because it works for them, maybe because they got a good deal on it or parts for it are cheap or it's low maintenance.

Apple fans tend to be unreasonable and that's why I dislike them.

- Oshyan

40hz

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Re: So Apple really is a religious thing...
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2011, 03:42:31 PM »
FWIW - I primarily use what I can afford.

"Coolness," "personal choice" and "best of breed"  doesn't usually figure into the equation for me. "Good enough" is truly good enough in my world. But more out of necessity than anything else.

Which is why I need to know a bit more about the technology I own than the person who can go buy whatever they want and be done with it.

"Use it up, wear it out, re-purpose, improvise, make do - or punt!" as the saying goes.  ;D

And I think this applies to about 80% of all computer users.  :)

« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 03:51:04 PM by 40hz »

superboyac

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Re: So Apple really is a religious thing...
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2011, 03:56:57 PM »
Eh...I'm not really out to prove anything.  Seems like we're on the same side of the issue, and perceive it differently.  I feel like discussing it any further would just antagonize each other, and I'm not interested in that because I like you! :)  So be it, I don't really care, I just like philosophizing once in a while.
In the end, I can defend Apple and recommend it, but it's not for me.  The ipad is nice, I like it, but it was an experiment, and if a Windows tablet ever comes out, I don't think I'll look back, other than just the fact that the ipad is probably always going to be built better.  That's my big fight with myself right now!  I love the way they build their stuff, I just prefer the Windows way of doing things.

PS I'm a Sony fan also!  But it's also a legitimate love/hate relationship.  Once again, I love love love their hardware technology and build quality, but I hate everything else: marketing, software...basically all of their Apple-like qualities.

Here's me, put very simply:  I can't create hardware, so I just want to find the best hardware.  After that, I want complete freedom with how to put the hardware together and the OS and software that runs it.  I want to do that my way.  If I could easily build my own hardware, I'd do that also.

superboyac

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Re: So Apple really is a religious thing...
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2011, 03:58:42 PM »
FWIW - I primarily use what I can afford.

"Coolness," "personal choice" and "best of breed"  doesn't usually figure into the equation for me. "Good enough" is truly good enough in my world. But more out of necessity than anything else.

Which is why I need to know a bit more about the technology I own than the person who can go buy whatever they want and be done with it.

"Use it up, wear it out, re-purpose, improvise, make do - or punt!" as the saying goes.  ;D

And I think this applies to about 80% of all computer users.  :)
I need to get accustomed to this "good enough" perspective.  I'm getting better at it, but it fights against my idealistic nature.  I do believe it's the healthier route, though.  Especially with these things that I just don't care about anymore.  I'd rather be idealistic about the more absurd things in life, like music, art, and stories.

JavaJones

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Re: So Apple really is a religious thing...
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2011, 04:30:11 PM »
I would tend to agree, especially now, that Apple does have good industrial design and materials. That being said you do pay for that benefit. You can get a machine on the Windows side that is as well built for a similar or lesser price (e.g. Thinkpad), but not usually as visually pleasing in design. ;) And the price difference is not that much either - quality just costs money.

- Oshyan

Carol Haynes

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Re: So Apple really is a religious thing...
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2011, 04:44:25 PM »
Sorry superboyac I have to agree with JavaJones - there is nothing inherantly easier in using MacOS X than Windows 7.

Most of what is perceived as easier is simply what you are used to - and people who are used to Windows find Mac very confusing.

I have used both Windows and Macs since the 80's and both simply require you to insert a disc to install something and follow the instructions. Both bung a shortcut on the desktop and or the task bar so basically to install and use an application is pretty much the same process.

As someone who fixes Macs (yes they do go wrong) as well as Windows I find MacOS far less documented and far hard to find what you are looking for.

A common issue I deal with is setting up Wireless networking. On a Mac you have to go into the System Properties and find the network connection and fill in confusing forms, on Windows 7 you click the icon that says "Wireless Networks are available", click on your router and type in the wireless key and youy are done - far simpler and much less confusing to the average user.

This isn't an isolated example - there are lots of things that I have seen Mac users struggling to work out - such as installing a download from the internet - which seems convoluted and confusing compare to Windows just double click and follow the instructions. Ask the average Macv user how to uninstall an application and they look blank at you - most don't have a clue where the actually application is installed or if it requires any special procedure to uninstall it or simply dump it in the trash.

Finally the whole use of the top menu bar in Mac causes lots of confusion - personally I think free floating windows that have their own context menu are much easier to manage than constantly having to check that the menu at the top of the screen is actually what you want at that moment!

I know these are personal opinions but they are based on talking to many users of both systems that just want to use a computer (like a washing machine or a microwave) and don't understand any of the jargon.

It's pay your money and take your pick. I just don't see how anyone justifies spending the stupid amount of extra cash on exactly the same hardware (or often rather lower powered hardware) to buy a Mac when they haven't got a specific reason or need (other than marketing-hype and style snobbery).

The same goes for other Apple products - are iPods inherently better than most other MP3 players - even the ones that Apple stole their original ideas from? The iTunes lock-in seems to be an advantage to Apple fans whilst anyone with a degree of sanity can see it is a pretty stupid restriction from the users perspective. If the other company produced a product that locked consumers to a single music store there would be anti-trust lawsuits - strangely Microsoft aren't so restrictive!

Carol Haynes

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Re: So Apple really is a religious thing...
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2011, 04:53:11 PM »
I would tend to agree, especially now, that Apple does have good industrial design and materials. That being said you do pay for that benefit. You can get a machine on the Windows side that is as well built for a similar or lesser price (e.g. Thinkpad), but not usually as visually pleasing in design. ;) And the price difference is not that much either - quality just costs money.

- Oshyan

In what way is the quality particularly better? They use exactly the same components from the same factories - Foxconn motherboards (the factory with the suicidally depressed workers), Intel CPUs, stock memory, nVidia graphics (only usually a generation or two behind PC builders at a similar price mark). It all makes sense - the technology is much cheaper for them so their profits hit the sky and rather than innovate or push the boundaries of new technology they let other manufacturers iron out the issues in hardware and then claim that Macs are more stable because they don't use that bleeding edge technology.

OK the white packaging looks nice (I have a white laptop that everyone thinks is a Mac until they notice it doesn't have an apple on it) - but mine cost £350 instead of £800 and when bought had a higher spec than a Macbook. OK I'll admit it had Vista on it (drek...) but having slipped in a Windows 7 disk it upgraded and runs beautifully.

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Re: So Apple really is a religious thing...
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2011, 04:53:50 PM »
I don't think we need to start becoming apologists for Apple - you lot are going soft in the head :-)

I use my iPad, everyday BUT I know it's rubbish. Well, maybe not total utter rubbish, I wouldn't use it if it was but as a product from the "gods" of design, i.e. Apple, I honestly think it's a total joke.

Honestly, there's nothing good about an iPad other than it being a tablet. It would be nothing without a few decent apps available for it. It WILL be so easy to make a tablet a million times better than the iPad, simply by making one that takes into account people are going to use their fingers to poke it. I honestly believe the Apple designers never tested the iPad for more than a few minutes - sure, they tested it in a virtual way, on a Mac (or pc) using a mouse to click the simulation with. They didn't use the real hardware for testing as after a few minutes they'd have realised the interface totally sucks when trying to do anything with text - or hit buttons with anything wider than a pencil tip.

And, and, I've recently experienced the totally sucks balls nature of OS file storage. I tried out a few mp3 player apps in an attempt to avoid itunes - none of these mp3 players is aware that there are mp3 files already on the machine, they are also blind to each others mp3 files - how. dumb. is. that. It's beyond moronic - totally utter crap.

I know a few Apple fans too. They've moved away from using PCs because PCs were "too much trouble", "too many infections", "Apple just works". We need the Myth Busters TV show to do an expose on Apple products - maybe then people will start to see through the myth and stop lying to themselves. Hmm, maybe not, well, of course not.

JavaJones

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Re: So Apple really is a religious thing...
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2011, 05:26:25 PM »
Carol, I was referring mostly to industrial design, and specifically to products like the MacBook Pro series and their MacPro desktop/workstations. The aluminum chassis of the MacBook Air is a good example. The iPhone seems to be a bit better designed and using nicer materials than the average Android (or other) phone too.

- Oshyan

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Re: So Apple really is a religious thing...
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2011, 06:22:00 PM »
The aluminum chassis of the MacBook Air is a good example.

It is? Maybe if the objective is style over substance. *Shrug* But IIRC they have a rather bad history of broken screens. Something about thin & rigid (being opposites) not mixing well.

Sure it's just dandy if you wan't to stand there and pose with it. But get some work done? Well you just plug in your... (oh wait) never mind...  :D

JavaJones

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Re: So Apple really is a religious thing...
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2011, 07:19:46 PM »
I hadn't heard about the broken screens, so maybe the Air isn't the best examples, but I believe the rest of the MacBook Pro line is also metal chassis and I do like that in a laptop. Thinkpads are built that way and as far as I know they don't have screen breaking problems. In general I do find the apparent (not necessarily the same as *actual*) build quality to be good on Apple products. On the other hand I have heard of the iPhone screen breaking issues, among many others. Not to mention that their "good" design often comes with issues like sealed units without user-replaceable batteries. So it's not all good.

Anyway perhaps the point is that the lower price for many other laptops with similar specs does often come with cheaper materials (not necessarily worse), e.g. plastic cases that flex when you hold them from the edge, keyboards with flex, hinges that aren't smooth, cases that squeak when you press on them, etc.

- Oshyan

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Re: So Apple really is a religious thing...
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2011, 07:32:56 PM »
True. Kind of a Cadillac vs. a pickup truck kind of thing. Sure the caddy has prettier fit and finish ...But you can get stuff done with a pickup.

That's why I have a pickup. ;)

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Re: So Apple really is a religious thing...
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2011, 07:42:32 PM »
And, and, I've recently experienced the totally sucks balls nature of OS file storage. I tried out a few mp3 player apps in an attempt to avoid itunes - none of these mp3 players is aware that there are mp3 files already on the machine, they are also blind to each others mp3 files - how. dumb. is. that. It's beyond moronic - totally utter crap.

You have no idea just how bad it is... It's worse...

To access a media file in iOS, you need to get it using a special method with a special protocol, e.g. "ugly://path.to.files/83456/sfdsd/39yheghbihgeirhefhhvduvghr.mp3" And they are that ugly. On top of that, you have no access to the file at all, the same way that you'd do it by trying to hot link an MP3 from another web site on your own web site. Actually, on a web site you'd have some control, but with Apple, the tools available area all crippled.

Then each application has private storage...

Idiotic? Well, I can see some reason in there, but yeah... it's pretty dumb.
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Re: So Apple really is a religious thing...
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2011, 08:19:03 PM »
And, and, I've recently experienced the totally sucks balls nature of OS file storage. I tried out a few mp3 player apps in an attempt to avoid itunes - none of these mp3 players is aware that there are mp3 files already on the machine, they are also blind to each others mp3 files - how. dumb. is. that. It's beyond moronic - totally utter crap.

You have no idea just how bad it is... It's worse...

To access a media file in iOS, you need to get it using a special method with a special protocol, e.g. "ugly://path.to.files/83456/sfdsd/39yheghbihgeirhefhhvduvghr.mp3" And they are that ugly. On top of that, you have no access to the file at all, the same way that you'd do it by trying to hot link an MP3 from another web site on your own web site. Actually, on a web site you'd have some control, but with Apple, the tools available area all crippled.

Then each application has private storage...

Idiotic? Well, I can see some reason in there, but yeah... it's pretty dumb.
Yes.  That's the fundamental, core difference between Windows and iOS.  It's the main characteristic that allows Apple to be Apple, and Windows to be Windows.

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Re: So Apple really is a religious thing...
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2011, 08:31:41 PM »
And, and, I've recently experienced the totally sucks balls nature of OS file storage. I tried out a few mp3 player apps in an attempt to avoid itunes - none of these mp3 players is aware that there are mp3 files already on the machine, they are also blind to each others mp3 files - how. dumb. is. that. It's beyond moronic - totally utter crap.

You have no idea just how bad it is... It's worse...

To access a media file in iOS, you need to get it using a special method with a special protocol, e.g. "ugly://path.to.files/83456/sfdsd/39yheghbihgeirhefhhvduvghr.mp3" And they are that ugly. On top of that, you have no access to the file at all, the same way that you'd do it by trying to hot link an MP3 from another web site on your own web site. Actually, on a web site you'd have some control, but with Apple, the tools available area all crippled.

Then each application has private storage...

Idiotic? Well, I can see some reason in there, but yeah... it's pretty dumb.
Yes.  That's the fundamental, core difference between Windows and iOS.  It's the main characteristic that allows Apple to be Apple, and Windows to be Windows.

Close, it allows Apple to be Apple, and every other OS on the planet to not suck... :)

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Re: So Apple really is a religious thing...
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2011, 08:47:40 PM »
Yes.  That's the fundamental, core difference between Windows and iOS.  It's the main characteristic that allows Apple to be Apple, and Windows to be Windows.

Not "Windows to be Windows", but "every other sane OS out there to be a sane OS". ;)

Apple locks things down so that nobody can do anything that they don't want to allow. This is in stark contrast to other proprietary systems that let you do things. e.g. bada gives you fantastic flexibility, but it also has total encapsulation at the same time. Moral of the story -- you don't need to be a prick.
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Re: So Apple really is a religious thing...
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2011, 07:27:02 AM »
Moral of the story -- you don't need to be a prick

But Apple likes it if your are ...

Just watched the BBC documentary that the article was based on and it was more frightening than the article! If you can't watch it on BBC iPlayer at least read the article at http://www.bbc.co.uk...ws/business-13416598 and see the photos! I haven't tried it but you can download a torrent of the episode if you search the usual places - unfortunately it is in RAR compressed format which may be best avoided.

It didn't just hit out at Apple - it was about brand loyalty in technology. Having said that the store opening in London's Covent Garden was terrifying with people travelling from California and China JUST for the opening and camping outside in the street before the store opened. I have only seen the kind of behaviour shown at the opening at evangelical revivalist rallies - talk about mass hysteria! The staff looked as mad as the punters/mugs.

Listening to children talk was especially scary - the level of brain washing is incredible.

Did you know that Sony sell Playstation 3 at below build cost - just to get BluRay drives into people's homes. They have also changed philosophy on allowing porn on BluRay media in a step to kill HD-DVD. Sony get paid a license fee on every single BluRay disk sold in the world, including blanks, and can dictate what is 'acceptable' content ... what kind of control is that?

Facebook doesn't advertise on iPhones - but refused to admit that it is because all revenue from advertising in 'apps' goes to Apple!

The biggest joke was the XBox - the biggest selling game station now (by a long way) but no one they interviewed knew it was produced by Microsoft and the product labelling is really tiny - probably in response to the perceived 'elderly' corporate image (not helped by the classic Windows 7 launch party video).
« Last Edit: May 20, 2011, 07:41:26 AM by Carol Haynes »