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Last post Author Topic: Congratz to the US Military Forces!  (Read 21918 times)

Renegade

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Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!
« Reply #75 on: May 04, 2011, 12:01:15 AM »
You're really going for that clown badge, aren't you?   :mad:

Funny tho!  :P

Hell yeah~!
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

phitsc

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Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!
« Reply #76 on: May 04, 2011, 03:02:40 AM »
I am hearing how OBL should have had a trial. Without taking any position on that I wonder:
1. where it would have been held. If he wasn't extradited to the USA with all legal formalities observed, could the defence have got him off on a technicality?
2. Would his entitlement to a "fair" trial be jeopardized by the publicity/reporting since 9/11. I would imagine defence lawyers rejecting jurors wholesale.
3. Whilst he was awaiting trial, how would the increase in hostage taking by pro-OBL elements be countered?

I'm sure there must be another thousand practical issues to be considered ... so easy to call for a trial as a spectator. Buggered if I know the answer.

Something similar to the ICTY for example. There are some big names on their list. People just as bad as OBL (like Karadzic, Milosevic or Mladic).

I think the US did not communicate the whole situation well (well, they probably did for US citizens, but probably not for most of the rest of the world). Had they said that they tried to seize him, but had to shoot him in self defence (even if it wasn't true), it would have been a different situation. More like cops trying to seize a criminal. But saying that the aim was to kill him just leaves a bad taste for civilized people.

phitsc

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Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!
« Reply #77 on: May 04, 2011, 03:04:59 AM »
You're really going for that clown badge, aren't you?   :mad:

Funny tho!  :P

Hell yeah~!

My suggestion was in full earnest! I really think you deserve it  :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup:

Renegade

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Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!
« Reply #78 on: May 04, 2011, 03:47:45 AM »
Had they said that they tried to seize him, but had to shoot him in self defence (even if it wasn't true), it would have been a different situation.

Highly reliable sources (again, the voices in my head), delivered this transcript:

These are voices in my head... Do you really want to click?
Quote

S1: "Oh my god! He's got a blanket. Repeat... He's got a BLANKET! And he's reaching for a PILLOW NOW!"

BANG BANG~!

S1: "Target pacified. Shit man... That was one bitchin' pillow... I think I need to change my shorts. Hey... He's got a diaper on his head! Of all the luck!"

S2: "Navy Seals 1. Old man, 0."


Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Renegade

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Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!
« Reply #79 on: May 04, 2011, 03:53:59 AM »
My suggestion was in full earnest! I really think you deserve it  :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup:

I find the topic lends itself well to humor. Like what else can you do?

Personal Note
I've been trying to be more positive and not rant as much. Ranting isn't really very productive. I still can't help myself sometimes though...

Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

cmpm

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Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!
« Reply #80 on: May 04, 2011, 04:37:25 AM »
If obl had anything to do with 9-11, I'd pull the trigger, and end his life here.
My opinion.

I agree with Carol about the Iraq war being illegal.
Afghanistan is another story, but similar.

Everyone will die, how that happens is a quality of life expectation.

obl choose his form of death.
Many did not, like 9-11. As well as all untimely deaths.
Like the collateral damage on both sides and friendly fire, that is a sure sign of incompetence.

We see people die prematurely too much.
To the point of it being accepted, or indifferent and negligent to it's implications.

That's all I feel I can say here, since the subject is up.

Renegade

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Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!
« Reply #81 on: May 04, 2011, 05:28:56 AM »
Like the collateral damage on both sides and friendly fire, that is a sure sign of incompetence.

I believe the technical excuse is "fog of war". :)
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

wraith808

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Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!
« Reply #82 on: May 04, 2011, 08:26:29 AM »
A possibility just crossed my mind - what if they have him alive in a dungeon somewhere? Would make perfect sense from a counter-terrorism POV. No accusations of torture, easy to produce and verify DNA evidence and show the world it was indeed him, even easy to fake death images or video if you have the guy alive.

That was my thought also, truthfully.  Though the faked images/video could be outed- so I'd think that if they are required to provide them, they'll be real...

And another thought for conspiracy theorists... given that the terrorists are willing to sacrifice themselves for their cause, what if this was intentional?  Give up bin Laden, and the American will to fight this war vanishes.  (Of course, I'd think he'd want a more violent last stand, i.e. a true sacrifice to martyr himself, but that might have had the opposite effect...)
« Last Edit: May 04, 2011, 09:21:32 AM by wraith808 »

Stoic Joker

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Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!
« Reply #83 on: May 04, 2011, 11:54:02 AM »
(Of course, I'd think he'd want a more violent last stand, i.e. a true sacrifice to martyr himself, but that might have had the opposite effect...)

Heroes tend to go out in a blaze-of-glory, and/or sometime survive. For a martyr, on the other hand, survival is a complication. As the object is/was/and always will be, to end up dead in an emotionally provocative fashion. OBL's role was to be played (to his audience) as that of a victimized holy man. As opposed to being seen (machine-guns-A-blazing) as a mad-dog killer.

wraith808

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Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!
« Reply #84 on: May 04, 2011, 12:47:28 PM »
^ The slow revelation of information- especially the fact that he was unarmed- then does say that this scenario might have played out.  Especially after search for so long, and finding him in such an open location.  But that's just a conspiracy theory...

Renegade

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Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!
« Reply #85 on: May 04, 2011, 12:59:45 PM »
But that's just a conspiracy theory...

Make no mistake... They ARE out to get YOU~! :D
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

mouser

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Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!
« Reply #86 on: May 04, 2011, 01:01:51 PM »
Quote
You're really going for that clown badge, aren't you?

no more clown badges until 2012, so don't work yourself up over it!

Renegade

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Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!
« Reply #87 on: May 04, 2011, 01:02:54 PM »
Quote
You're really going for that clown badge, aren't you?

no more clown badges until 2012, so don't work yourself up over it!

Just as long as they're given out before December 21st~! :P
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Tuxman

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Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!
« Reply #88 on: May 04, 2011, 01:25:53 PM »
Yeh, "congratz" for murdering an unarmed old man after ten years of pointless bombing. Idiots.
BTW, has anyone here mentioned yet that al-Quaeda was an US-American guerilla troop initially?

wraith808

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Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!
« Reply #89 on: May 04, 2011, 02:00:01 PM »
Yeh, "congratz" for murdering an unarmed old man after ten years of pointless bombing. Idiots.
BTW, has anyone here mentioned yet that al-Quaeda was an US-American guerilla troop initially?

It's not as cut and dried as that.  This has been hashed and re-hashed... can't we just all get along?

edbro

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Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!
« Reply #90 on: May 04, 2011, 02:57:44 PM »
Yeh, "congratz" for murdering an unarmed old man after ten years of pointless bombing. Idiots.
Says the man from country not bombed by Al Qaeda.

Usually the people that resort to name calling have the weaker points in an argument.

Tuxman

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Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!
« Reply #91 on: May 04, 2011, 03:15:55 PM »
The USA installed Al Qaeda initially, now they wonder why...?
BTW the USA are not bombed either, instead it's them who bombed several countries and killed thousands of people. Oh yeah alright, it is just fair to eradicate three countries...

edbro

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Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!
« Reply #92 on: May 04, 2011, 03:45:59 PM »
It saddens me to think you value the life of an evil madmen more than the 3000 people killed on 9/11. True, killing bin Laden will not bring them back but this man was trying to kill more innocents all over the world. Do you value the life of a miserable terrorist more than the innocent civilians he has killed, or plan to kill. Taking out bin Laden, and other terrorists, will save innocent life in the long run.

I have no regrets that bin Laden was killed. I only wish it had been sooner, slower and more painful. Does that make me a bad person? I don't care. I believe in justice. Where is your anger for the innocents killed on 9/11? Where is your anger at the continuing violence perpetated by Al Qaeda, spurred on by bin Laden?

Tuxman

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Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!
« Reply #93 on: May 04, 2011, 03:48:48 PM »
Killing innocents?
Hmm... wait... wasn't it the government of the USA who wanted Hussein and Bin Laden to do exactly that a few decades ago?

edbro

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Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!
« Reply #94 on: May 04, 2011, 04:00:21 PM »
Killing innocents?
Hmm... wait... wasn't it the government of the USA who wanted Hussein and Bin Laden to do exactly that a few decades ago?

No. Soviet military forces engaged in war are not considered innocent noncombatants. Al Qaeda is engaged in war with the US. Therefore, their leader is a valid military target.

So you think the 9/11 civilians were not innocent?

You need to brush up on your history. The US supported the Afghan mujahideen agains the '79 Soviet invasion. We did provide weapons and training. The mujahideen later evolved into Al Qaeda. That can not be misconstrued as saying we created Al Qaeda.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2011, 04:00:54 PM by edbro, Reason: spelling »

Tuxman

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Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!
« Reply #95 on: May 04, 2011, 04:02:27 PM »
The US supported Bin Laden as well as Hussein while they were fighting against other innocent countries. Now they fought the US and, suddenly, it is called "terrorism"?

edbro

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Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!
« Reply #96 on: May 04, 2011, 04:05:41 PM »
The US supported Bin Laden as well as Hussein while they were fighting against other innocent countries. Now they fought the US and, suddenly, it is called "terrorism"?
Yeah, you're right. Flying airliners into office buildings isn't terrorism. You win by your uncanny logic. Congrats!

Tuxman

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Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!
« Reply #97 on: May 04, 2011, 04:07:15 PM »
Assaults in the name of the US aren't terrorism, assaults in the US are? *nod*

worstje

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Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!
« Reply #98 on: May 04, 2011, 04:19:09 PM »
Both of you please shut your nutritional orifices, or pour nutrients inthere rather than spewing fire like a PMSing dragon. ;)

You both have good points. 9/11 hurt tons of people. It left a scar on history, and on the lives of many people. However, two wars that were started on pretenses and killed easily 100 times the amount of people killed during 9/11, the majority of whom had nothing to do with Al Qaeda and/or terrorists.

If some KKK offshoot managed to kill 3,000 people in China, would the Chinese government be in its place to invade the USA? One can go on and bring up things like political influence, monetary support, and radical minorities to point out how different it would be from Al Qaeda and 9/11, but sadly that is not even the point I am trying to make here.

The WTC thing affected only a few people in comparison. Those wars have affected many, many more, and generations more will be affected in far worse ways than those in the USA. Those wars have started unbridled hate of muslims all over the world, have led to assassinations from emotional people who were afraid of what they do not understand, and most of all, have torn societies apart. The way I see it (and no, I'm not muslim, nor do I have muslim acquaintances) the USA has started its own WW3, with the Jews having become the Muslims who are treated just slightly nicer, and all that remains now is to wait for the 'allies' of the eastern world to make a fist and invade the USA.

Is that a dark, gloomy opinion that will offend many of you because it pretty much equates the USA with Germany and Bush with Hitler? Probably. But if those countries use the same morals of justification as the USA does, it is a distinct possibility. And since many say they are to be less moral than their western counterparts... wouldn't it be reason to fear more? Killing Osama turned him into the martyr he wanted to be for many in the countries affected by the 'war on terror' - and I argue that is scarier than pretty much everything else.

I'm not going to post about this subject anymore. I urge others not to post about it anymore either. Everyone is free to their opinion, and I urge that we don't fight because we do not share the same joy over the death of a man, no matter how evil and despicable his acts. Let's go back to the donations, the coding and the software we love, mmk?

P.S.: I have already fulfilled Godwin's Law, thus any and all reason to further discuss the subject are hereby void. :D
« Last Edit: May 04, 2011, 04:41:36 PM by worstje »

mouser

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Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!
« Reply #99 on: May 04, 2011, 04:44:24 PM »
I have come up with a new heuristic to help people tell whether they should post another reply in an opinion thread, here it is:

The probability of making a useful contribution to an opinion thread ~= 1 / (NumberOfRepliesYouPost^3) (graph).

  • So your FIRST post has a 100% probability of having a useful impact.
  • By the time you make your 3rd post, you are down to a 4% probability.
  • By your 5th post you are below 1% probability.

So maybe we would all do well (and i include myself!) to consider whether after the 2nd or third reply we should consider that we've made our case, and should leave the thread for new posters?
« Last Edit: May 04, 2011, 04:52:55 PM by mouser »