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Author Topic: New Twist on Basic  (Read 3823 times)
Cpilot
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« on: April 26, 2011, 11:28:04 PM »

There's a new Indy Basic that I think has a lot of potential.
MiniBasic
Accesses the API, NASM, small executable, compiles resources, OOP and some COM.
Here's an example program of a modeless dialog.
[copy or print]
##INCLUDE "windows.inc"
##NOCONSOLE
##define IDD_DLG1 1000
##define IDC_STC1 1001
##define IDC_BTN1 1002
##define ERROR_ALREADY_EXISTS 183
@API DestroyWindow(hwnd:int),int
@API CreateDialogParamA(hInstance:int,lpTemplateName:pointer,hWndParent:int,lpDialogFunc:int,dwInitParam:int),int
WINDOW win
int hinstance,hwnd,hdialog,hicon,item
win.Open(0,0,240,180,WS_OVERLAPPEDWINDOW|WS_VISIBLE|BUFFERED|CENTERED,0,"Modeless Dialog",NULL,&handler)
win.AddControlEx("BUTTON","Click Me!",120,5,70,25,0,0,100)
hicon = ExtractIconA(hinstance,"dia2.exe",0)
SendMessageA(win.GetHandle(),WM_SETICON,0,hicon)
hinstance= GetModuleHandleA(0)

do:processmessages():until win.GetHandle()=NULL
 
func handler(WINDOW wnd),int
select wnd.Message
case ID_CLOSE
DestroyWindow(hdialog)
wnd.Close()
case ID_CONTROL
select wnd.ControlID
case 100
if wnd.NotifyCode = 0 and item = 0 then
hdialog = CreateDialogParamA(hinstance,IDD_DLG1,hwnd,&ToolDlgProc,0)
ShowWindow(hdialog,SW_SHOW)
item = 1
end if
end select
end select
return 0
endf
func ToolDlgProc(hwnd:int, Message:uint,wParam:int,lParam:int)
Select Message
Case WM_COMMAND
If LOWORD(wParam) = IDC_BTN1 then DestroyWindow(hdialog)
item = 0
End Select
Return 0
endf
Give it a look, there's a demo version and if you like it it's only $21.95....License includes free updates.
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Ath
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« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2011, 01:43:14 AM »

Looks just like a kind of merger of AutoIt3 and AutoHotKey to me,
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Cpilot
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« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2011, 10:47:43 PM »

Looks just like a kind of merger of AutoIt3 and AutoHotKey to me,
Well, you obviously don't have a clue so who needs your $21.95.
AutoHotKey is for script kiddies.
AutoIt3 is a pretty good and powerful script language, just goes to show the level of "programmers" who exist here.
Save your comments for 4chan.
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mouser
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« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2011, 11:31:33 PM »

simmer down now everyone.
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f0dder
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« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2011, 10:36:07 AM »

AHK for script kiddies while AI3 good and powerful? Aren't those languages pretty much the same? O_o

I don't see a point in paying for something like MiniBasic. There's simply too many excellent and free (gratis and libre) programming tools out there, so a paid product would have to offer something really extraordinary... and that just doesn't seem to be the case with MB.
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wraith808
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« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2011, 10:39:19 AM »

Looks just like a kind of merger of AutoIt3 and AutoHotKey to me,
Well, you obviously don't have a clue so who needs your $21.95.
AutoHotKey is for script kiddies.
AutoIt3 is a pretty good and powerful script language, just goes to show the level of "programmers" who exist here.
Save your comments for 4chan.

Are you associated with the product?  He was just giving his opinion, so it seems pretty strange to flame someone for their personal opinion unless you're invested in the product...
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Renegade
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« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2011, 10:57:53 AM »

$22 for an entry seems cheap to me. Heck, that's barely a dinner at a restaurant.

If it helps someone get into programming, the $22 is well spent.

I can't see the harm in it.
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mrainey
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« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2011, 12:55:44 PM »

MiniBASIC was written by the man who developed my favorite programming tool, Emergence BASIC.  What that means is that the program will be very reliable, the developer not so much.
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40hz
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« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2011, 02:19:47 PM »

I think it would be far more beneficial to discuss and debate the technical merits rather than the price of something like this. f0dder sort of alluded to that when he asked what was the unique thing (or things) about Minibasic that justified it's existence.

Pricing should not be an issue if the product fills a niche. It's only when price is divorced from function that it becomes it's own separate issue. Because f there's no real functional differences, all you can discuss is the price.

And close functional similarity shouldn't be seen as an issue either. Most software falls into general categories, with dozens, or hundreds, of "me too" products competing for space on our hard drives. That's why something as basic as a programmer's text editor is available in so many price and feature ranges. Each has its own special "something" that some group of users can't live without. And those things are often what sparks such debate and emotion when text editors get compared. Most forum veterans know that few discussions get uglier sooner than those about which editor is "the best."

Which is really odd when you think about it. Because except for those little "somethings" each editor brings to the party, they're all basically the same tool.

IMO if Minibasic fills a need or function, it's worth whatever the author can get for it. And if it doesn't, it's not worth having at all. Even if it were being offered for free.

So maybe if instead of arguing price (or bandying about things like script kiddies or 'it's no different than') somebody could throw up an elegant example of something Minibasic does extremely well? Ideally something another product like AutoIt or Autohotkey couldn't do as easily - or maybe at all?

I'm pretty good at making an informed decision when I have some examples to look at.

I'm not too good at deciding when people are slamming each other. When that happens, I tend to either stick with what I already have - or start looking elsewhere.

Just my 2ΒΆ smiley

« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 02:28:38 PM by 40hz » Logged

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Ath
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« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2011, 03:25:51 PM »

I wasn't hitting on anyone, and put my (personal) verdict in a spoiler to be a little less public (to avoid any possible offense) about that. But I guess it wasn't subtle enough.
I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my message. huh

Had a quick look at the MB site, but did not see much to get a better view of the product. They promise a small exe size, no runtime dependencies, but I already have that. With AutoIt3 or AutoHotKey. And 'modular with new commands'? What that? No explanation found, and the More Information link? Directly to the forum index, but no info.
And they still want money for it? I'll keep my (personal) verdict the same.

Or grab a copy of the (free) Visual Studio Express Edition. That has a quite modern flavor of basic, and C#. It's not small, and requires a runtime installed. But it's still free, and has quite awesome support.

I'll pass on this one, thanks.

No offense.
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40hz
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« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2011, 03:53:38 PM »

@ath- In the absence of a time limited full-feature trial version I'd be inclined to pass too. I never buy programming tools based on a demo or the spec sheet. I'm definitely the "try before you buy" type when it comes to this type of software. smiley

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Stoic Joker
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« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2011, 10:28:00 AM »

After just glancing at the OP sample code, I'm pretty sure I could do the same sample dialog in pure C with  less code ... *Shrug* ... So I'm lost on an advantage there.
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phitsc
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« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2011, 04:32:03 AM »

After just glancing at the OP sample code, I'm pretty sure I could do the same sample dialog in pure C with  less code ... *Shrug* ... So I'm lost on an advantage there.

With C, you can't use goto without being outlawed Wink
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Stoic Joker
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« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2011, 06:48:43 AM »

After just glancing at the OP sample code, I'm pretty sure I could do the same sample dialog in pure C with  less code ... *Shrug* ... So I'm lost on an advantage there.

With C, you can't use goto without being outlawed Wink

goto EEK!

hehehe ...Gotta give you that one!  cheesy
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40hz
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« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2011, 07:47:43 AM »

After just glancing at the OP sample code, I'm pretty sure I could do the same sample dialog in pure C with  less code ... *Shrug* ... So I'm lost on an advantage there.

Basic's keywords and syntax are generally considered a lot easier for new and novice programmers to follow?

Also, pure C makes it a lot easier for you to screw things up royally because there's nothing it won't let you do. Even badly.

 smiley
« Last Edit: May 02, 2011, 07:49:52 AM by 40hz » Logged

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wraith808
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« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2011, 09:09:55 AM »

After just glancing at the OP sample code, I'm pretty sure I could do the same sample dialog in pure C with  less code ... *Shrug* ... So I'm lost on an advantage there.

Basic's keywords and syntax are generally considered a lot easier for new and novice programmers to follow?

Also, pure C makes it a lot easier for you to screw things up royally because there's nothing it won't let you do. Even badly.

 smiley

Yeah... QFT.  Basic isn't made to be efficient, but to be carebear land, to borrow a term from MMOs.
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40hz
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« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2011, 09:49:48 AM »

After just glancing at the OP sample code, I'm pretty sure I could do the same sample dialog in pure C with  less code ... *Shrug* ... So I'm lost on an advantage there.

Basic's keywords and syntax are generally considered a lot easier for new and novice programmers to follow?

Also, pure C makes it a lot easier for you to screw things up royally because there's nothing it won't let you do. Even badly.

 smiley

Yeah... QFT.  Basic isn't made to be efficient, but to be carebear land, to borrow a term from MMOs.

I think it's more BASIC was designed to be an application rather than a systems programming language. As such, there's very little need for many of the powerful capabilities and "bare metal" access C provides when you're doing apps. In many respects they do noting but add an additional layer of unnecessary risk and complexity.

Besides, where do they get off dissing BASIC as being CareBear country when 90% of what's being written for Windows uses .NET or some other collection of pre-canned routines or libraries? Half the time these "professional" programmers use C for nothing more than glue to hold a bunch of prewritten code together.
Which is why they're professionals!

It's mostly the clueless, the dilettante, the amateur, or (more rarely) someone who wants to learn how to build libraries and components who still writes from scratch even though they can avoid it.  
 smiley
« Last Edit: May 02, 2011, 09:58:59 AM by 40hz » Logged

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wraith808
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« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2011, 10:04:21 AM »

I think it's more BASIC was designed to be an application rather than a systems programming language. As such, there's very little need for many of the powerful capabilities and "bare metal" access C provides when you're doing apps. In many respects they do noting but add an additional layer of unnecessary risk and complexity.
I don't think that the original iterations of BASIC were designed to be an application programming language.

Besides, e do they get off dissing BASIC as being CareBear country when 90% of what's being written for Windows uses .NET or some other collection of pre-canned routines or libraries? Half the time these "professional" programmers use C for nothing more than glue to hold a bunch of stick code together.

Whoa there.  I applied the CareBear in the terms of it keeping you in a safer environment for beginners where catastrophic failures are less likely, and concepts are easier to grasp.  Not meaning anything negative about it in those terms- it is what it is.  And for better or worse, there are limitations on BASIC that aren't imposed in even .NET.  You can easily bridge the managed/unmanaged code barriers if you are of a mindset/have a need to do it.  And I don't even view Visual Basic as basic, truthfully.  It's similarities to basic ended quite a while ago, and in .NET it's just a preference, more than a real difference IME.  I think you're finding disparaging where there was none intended?
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40hz
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« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2011, 10:11:23 AM »

@wraith - Don't get me wrong. I wasn't offended. My remark was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. Which is why I added the smiley at the bottom.  Thmbsup

And I fully agree with you about VisualBasic. It stopped being what most people would consider BASIC a very long time ago.  Grin
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