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Author Topic: What is the Windows Helvetica equivalent (original Helvetica from a Mac)  (Read 33026 times)
superboyac
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« on: March 23, 2011, 08:51:42 PM »

So, I'm trying to figure out what is the EXACT windows equivalent for Helvetica on Windows.  I have documents that have been created on a Mac, and now I want to use these documents in Windows without altering the font at all.  Now, most google searches will say that Arial is the equivalent of Helvetica on Windows.   But that's not my question.  I want to know what Helvetica font is the SAME as the default Helvetica font that comes standard on Mac computers.

Here's the issue.  If you want to use Helvetica on Windows, you have to get one of the fonts from Adobe or Linotype, or whatever.  But the names are not the same, and there are so many varieties, it's hard to tell which is the exact equivalent.  For macs, it's just called "Helvetica.dfont", and if you get the Helvetica font on Windows, you will have dozens of options, and none of them are simply "Helvetica".  And that's just the beginning.  Even if you pick the right font, there are the sub-family fonts with it, which is a ton also.

And these are Indesign documents, meticulously created, so I don't want any substituting happening.  yes, I know Arial is almost exactly the same as Helvetica, but I just want to have it seamless from Mac to Windows, and vice versa.  Besides, I prefer Helvetica over Arial, I'm very picky.

Any thoughts?
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Renegade
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« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2011, 09:01:02 PM »

Any thoughts?

Abandon all hope? tongue

I'd say go post in a forum specifically for design and typography. It's a very hard question and requires significant expertise in typography to answer well. A few people here might be able to answer you, but you might be better off in a dedicated forum for typography/design.
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superboyac
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« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2011, 09:25:24 PM »

Any thoughts?

Abandon all hope? tongue

I'd say go post in a forum specifically for design and typography. It's a very hard question and requires significant expertise in typography to answer well. A few people here might be able to answer you, but you might be better off in a dedicated forum for typography/design.
Do you (or anyone) know of a good typography forum?

I've been thinking about it, and after I'm done with this project, I have to go back and fine tune all this stuff.  I need to think about what fonts are going to be best for cross-compatibility, and also revisit how I've put the documents together.  Ok, thanks!
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Deozaan
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« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2011, 09:41:02 PM »

Do you (or anyone) know of a good typography forum?

These are just guesses, but you might want to try one of:

http://graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/
http://writers.stackexchange.com/

Or somewhere else in the Stack Exchange.
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« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2011, 10:49:40 PM »

Sorry. I don't know. My knowledge of typography is pretty limited -- basic design knowledge. But +1 for Stack Exchange. It's always a good place to look.
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Xenonym
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« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2011, 11:02:19 PM »

Not really sure what you are asking, so I am going to answer the question two times.

Helvetica equivalent on Windows:
Arial or MS Sans Serif. They are so alike that unless you stare at them properly there's no difference.

Which of the many fonts from the Helvetica family does the Mac consider to be "Helvetica":
Based on me eyeballing my iPhone, its should either be Helvetica Roman or Helvetica Neue Roman.

Hope that answers the question.

EDIT: If you are using Helvetica fonts on Windows, do note that you have to buy them from Linotype if you don't want to run afoul of any licensing issues.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 11:04:31 PM by Xenonym » Logged
40hz
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« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2011, 12:47:16 AM »

.dfont files are Apples own embellishment of TrueType. They're more correctly called a data fork font suitcases. All it means is that the resource and data forks are combined into a single file.

Quote
With Mac OS X, Apple introduced yet another font format. The Dfont (Data Fork TrueType Font) is essentially a repackaged TrueType font. While these Dfont format fonts are often high-quality fonts, this format is essentially only used by Apple and, in effect, these fonts are just used as system fonts. We do not recommend using Dfont format fonts within professional creative, print and publishing environments.

Link: http://www.hcsonline.com/...ers/130-fonts-in-mac-os-x

AFAIK Linotype designed the Helvetica and Helvetica Neue Apple uses. I don't know if they were also responsible for the .dfont Apple uses as a system font.

I've got an article in my archive from a while back that talks about certain issues surrounding Helvetica Neue and InDesign. You might want to take a look at that when you get a chance. Link here. I mention this because you'll need to determine if InDesign is substituting a PostScript font for your .dfont (Hint: give your printer a call and ask him/her if you can talk to their in-house Mac wizard about this.)

------------------

Adobe has a package called Helvetica Neue Std 2.0 that should be the closest cross-platformmatch. Link here.

Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to give Adobe a call (800-833-6687) to confirm this however. I'd have done it for you, but it's 1:03am here and they shut down the switchboard at 7:00pm PST.  Grin

------------------

So you're a Helvetica die-hard huh? I prefer Optima nova or Univers for san-serif, and Minion Kiss for chunks of text that are meant to be read. FYI: there's also a Minion math font designed to work with Minion Pro.



 Sweet! Cool

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tomos
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« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2011, 02:52:29 AM »

I have gotten help with typography in the Adobe forums, here's the indesign one, looks very active
http://forums.adobe.com/c...indesign/indesign_general
and,
probably more to the point, the typography one:
http://forums.adobe.com/community/typography_fonts
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Tom
cranioscopical
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« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2011, 07:38:18 AM »

Minion_%28typeface%29]Minion [/url] Kiss for chunks of text that are meant to be read.

+1 on Minion
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Chris
40hz
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« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2011, 09:24:08 AM »

Minion_%28typeface%29]Minion [/url] Kiss for chunks of text that are meant to be read.

+1 on Minion

Interesting...

In my mind's eye, I've always seen Chris' comments as being set in meticulously kerned 12pt Minion Italic Display.  

Go figure. Grin

« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 09:34:00 AM by 40hz » Logged

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superboyac
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« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2011, 09:45:36 AM »

Thanks 40!!  Such great information there.
I'm going to spend some time on all this real soon.  We can't use Mac system fonts for our documents, so I have to choose a third party font that is going to be nice and functional.  Thanks for the math font tip, as well.
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Curt
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« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2011, 11:00:31 AM »

In my nsh opinion too many versions of Minion have not been updated for too long. Several members does not have the euro sign, €, some not even at, @
But maybe my versions all were cheap (free) rip-offs?
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40hz
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« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2011, 11:04:32 AM »

@SB - in your explorations also take a look at the Lucida font family. Scientific American used to use it for all their stuff. It's very popular in the tech publishing world since there's good support for mathematical character sets. It's also one of the few font families that contains both serif and san serif typefaces. Wikipedia has a pretty good article on it here.

Nice looking too. Especially Lucida Bright, which is another one of those typefaces that's a pleasure to read. Text looks especially good using a slightly larger (12/12.5 point) sizes with Lucida. It also stays readable when it's slightly condensed by tightening up on your tracking settings. Pretty much perfect for a technical textbook!

 Cool

« Last Edit: April 01, 2011, 06:31:34 PM by 40hz; Reason: Fixed URL » Logged

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cranioscopical
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« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2011, 11:23:40 AM »


Interesting...

In my mind's eye, I've always seen Chris' comments as being set in meticulously kerned 12pt Minion Italic Display.  


That is interesting!

I've found that most sufferers assume the setting to be an asylum somewhere…   embarassed

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Chris
40hz
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« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2011, 11:28:15 AM »

In my nsh opinion too many versions of Minion have not been updated for too long. Several members does not have the euro sign, €, some not even at, @
But maybe my versions all were cheap (free) rip-offs?

You may need to get the 'real' (i.e. Adobe) version of Minion.

AFAIK all OpenType editions of Adobe fonts now include their own Euro symbol.

MinionPro does for sure. Sample sheet here.

If you have a font missing a Euro, Adobe has created a free for download set of 16 different €s that should blend quite well with just about any font out there.
 Info here.

 Thmbsup


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superboyac
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« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2011, 05:07:03 PM »

@SB - in your explorations also take a look at the Lucida font family. Scientific American used to use it for all their stuff. It's very popular in the tech publishing world since there's good support for mathematical character sets. It's also one of the few font families that contains both serif and san serif typefaces. Wikipedia has a pretty good article on it here.

Nice looking too. Especially Lucida Bright, which is another one of those typefaces that's a pleasure to read. Text looks especially good using a slightly larger (12/12.5 point) sizes with Lucida. It also stays readable when it's slightly condensed by tightening up on your tracking settings. Pretty much perfect for a technical textbook!

 Cool


You have a lot of good suggestions.  I like the idea of using one font and not worrying about it.  i also like that Lucida is not a system font for either mac or pc.  I'm sure my friend is going to fight me on this because he loves helvetica.  I like it also.  But one thing for sure...I'm never going to use a system font for work like this ever again.  bad idea.
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superboyac
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« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2011, 05:48:32 PM »

Sounds like minion math is pretty well thought out.  That might be the one for math.
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xtabber
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« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2011, 05:35:44 PM »

Try Googling "Helvetica" today (April 1 2011) for Google's April Fools Day joke.
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cranioscopical
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« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2011, 07:42:52 AM »

For an interesting side trip, smash!ng apps has gathered some fun with typography here.

    
« Last Edit: April 02, 2011, 07:44:24 AM by cranioscopical » Logged

Chris
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