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Poll
Question: WHAT SOFTWARE DO YOU BELIEVE TO BE THE MOST PIRATED EACH YEAR?
Autodesk Autocad
Microsoft Office
Anti-virus software (various)
Adobe Photoshop
Microsoft Windows (XP-Vista-7)
Nero Burning

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Author Topic: Most Pirated Software?  (Read 10178 times)
40hz
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« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2011, 12:04:27 PM »


Quote
Umm...even if it was just a quick load/try/remove deal... do you think that's a wise or considerate thing to come right out and admit doing on the public forum of a highly visible site where a number of its members and visitors write licensed software for a living?

Just thinking out loud here.

Yeah. I don't see any problem stating that.

It's really up to mouser to moderate the posts


Understood.

But I think if you read what I wrote you'd see I wasn't attempting to moderate. Nor did I suggest he shouldn't say what he did. Nor did I hit the 'report to mod' button. Nor in any other way do anything to imply he didn't have a 'right' (whatever that means in this context) to say what he did.

To do any of the above would have been me trying to bring about an outcome. Since there was no agenda behind my question, I didn't have an outcome in mind.

I was simply asking if he thought his comment was either wise or considerate in light of this site's demographic.

That's all. smiley

The question has a purpose however, despite its complete lack of an agenda. I was attempting to get a better understanding of where the person was coming from, and what framework of conduct and etiquette he acts under.

Bit of a difference, as I'm sure you can see. smiley

I think Mssr. Bamse understood where I was coming from in trying to get a better handle on where he was coming from. Grin

And although his answer didn't really address my question, some of what he said gives me an inkling of which set of justifications and beliefs he uses when he downloads an unauthorized copy of something. (It's mostly the apologist or "yeah but" argument BTW)

I'm good with that. Next time he says something along those lines I'll better understand him even where I don't agree with him.

--------

Note: The arguments most downloaders use fall into general theory groups whose logic, ethics, and choice of words range from the deep and thought provoking to the completely childish and ludicrous. Read enough of them and you'll see the pattern.

Note too I used the terms downloaders and unauthorized copies rather than the usual pirates; or pirated/bootlegged/stolen software.

My word choice was deliberate because I make no judgments about people who download works from sources outside the creator's intended channels. People do what they do. And the only personal behaviors I ever presume to regulate or condemn are my own.
 Cool

« Last Edit: February 25, 2011, 10:00:56 AM by 40hz; Reason: Removed misplaced and duplicated word. Sorry » Logged

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40hz
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« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2011, 12:09:10 PM »

If you don't speak about the how, you're just white washing IMO.

And likely avoiding legal actions against you. tongue

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Paul Keith
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« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2011, 12:10:56 PM »

Quote
Understood.

But I think if you read what I wrote you'd see I wasn't attempting to moderate. Nor did I suggest he shouldn't say what he did. Nor did I hit the 'report to mod' button. Nor in any other way do anything to imply he didn't have a 'right' (whatever that means in this context) to say what he did.

To do any of the above would have been me trying to bring about an outcome. Since there was no agenda behind my question, I didn't have an outcome in mind.

Now who's talking like an attorney?  tongue
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Bamse
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« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2011, 12:33:25 PM »

Well I meant I should not post a guide with links and all on how to get a free Photoshop or listing best Windows loaders. Speaking of piracy in general terms should be ok. I would be highly interested in this area if I were a software developer. Question and task is how to reach people with stuff in a way they find acceptable and worthy of their $$$ - then you have a new Minecraft smiley Some will never pay for anything but I believe most are more than happy to, among those who have money that is. Possible many are fed up with screwed licenses, non-personal home pages and support. They don't feel they are hurting anyone by pirating, they avoid throwing away money to more of the same cooperate crap. There are different ways of viewing this. If download.com and price tags of 19.95, 29.95 etc. are failing what to do? Put thinking hat on instead of treating piracy like a cancer give better result I think.

40hz, any clearer why it is suitable DC material? If not then nope, I don't think I am provoking anyone on DC by speaking of piracy smiley Piracy/cracking started with BBS not p2p, time to get updated if someone is in shock.
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Gwen7
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« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2011, 12:42:03 PM »

this is getting very heavy.
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40hz
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« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2011, 12:45:44 PM »

Quote
Understood.

But I think if you read what I wrote you'd see I wasn't attempting to moderate. Nor did I suggest he shouldn't say what he did. Nor did I hit the 'report to mod' button. Nor in any other way do anything to imply he didn't have a 'right' (whatever that means in this context) to say what he did.

To do any of the above would have been me trying to bring about an outcome. Since there was no agenda behind my question, I didn't have an outcome in mind.

Now who's talking like an attorney?  tongue

Really? I thought I sounded more like a Jesuit back there. tongue

(I get that "sound like an attorney" thing a lot BTW.  Grin)

« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 12:50:32 PM by 40hz » Logged

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app103
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« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2011, 01:10:40 PM »

Perceive? I have always had the experience that absolute worst offenders in this area are people working within IT. With practically no exception, safe assumption to make though unfair if not offensive to a few of course. And here on DC with programmers and all? Perceive away but what do you pirate? would be a better question I think Wink

  • Autodesk Autocad (don't have it, no use for it)
  • Microsoft Office (don't have it, use open office which is free)
  • Anti-virus software (I use MSE, which is free)
  • Adobe Photoshop (don't have it, use old paid for copy of Paintshop Pro 7, even though I have newer free & legal versions of it)
  • Microsoft Windows (Main PC came with both Vista & XP, no need to pirate it. Other PC came with XP)
  • Nero Burning (Came with my burner, but I don't have it installed...use Oront Burning Kit instead, free from GiveAwayOfTheDay)

I am not going to say I never pirated any software. But a chain of events took place some years back to end my piracy days for good...

  • My main PC died and I was forced back to using an old slow pc with an outdated OS (this happened again in 2008). It's very difficult...near impossible... to pirate modern software capable of running on an antique. I gained a great appreciation for small single purpose tools, which were either freeware or very cheap. Using an outdated OS made me more security conscious, unwilling to use most outdated software or take a risk on cracks.
  • I started resetting old slow PC's for the other poor people in my neighborhood, for free, including a hand picked software bundle suitable for their machines. Installing pirated software on other people's machines? Not something I'd ever do, and those machines were a whole lot like my antique which meant they couldn't run the latest & greatest payware any way. My hand picked bundle were all those small freeware apps I was running myself. The first one I did belonged to a cop's mother...then her friends and people from her church.
  • I started coding...through which I gained a greater respect for software developers, enough to end my pirating days for good.
  • I discovered this site, it's good people, mouser (you can't deny his influence being very strong), the wealth of knowledge on freeware, it's generosity which enabled me to afford to pay for a few things I really wanted, won a few other things, and was gifted something very expensive that I could never afford.

I don't want or need to pirate software any more.  smiley
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Paul Keith
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« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2011, 01:59:07 PM »

Quote
Understood.

But I think if you read what I wrote you'd see I wasn't attempting to moderate. Nor did I suggest he shouldn't say what he did. Nor did I hit the 'report to mod' button. Nor in any other way do anything to imply he didn't have a 'right' (whatever that means in this context) to say what he did.

To do any of the above would have been me trying to bring about an outcome. Since there was no agenda behind my question, I didn't have an outcome in mind.

Now who's talking like an attorney?  tongue

Really? I thought I sounded more like a Jesuit back there. tongue

(I get that "sound like an attorney" thing a lot BTW.  Grin)

It's hard for me to add anything else other than:

I wonder if mouser would ever add Slashdot like tags to DC. It can be awkward thinking I just didn't reply.
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cranioscopical
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« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2011, 02:29:51 PM »

Really? I thought I sounded more like a Jesuit back there. tongue

(I get that "sound like an attorney" thing a lot BTW.  Grin)


Trying to get a cross to your local barista?
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Chris
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« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2011, 08:56:44 PM »

am i seeing things here? tellme

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Bamse
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« Reply #35 on: February 25, 2011, 02:08:31 AM »

I don't get that I think - was Office 2000 really only 57mb? You need to update Java is all I see smiley

Good for you app103 and your transformation to join the good people lead by Mouser - as opposed to the evil ones DC as a whole don't like. It is that black and white view I object to and also think is out of touch with reality, DC included. Not much lost in kicking out pirated programs but you know that because ? Regular users who might barely know what bundled crap computer came with have more problems separating good from bad on horrible download sites where main focus is affiliate deals and ads. That and lousy Google searches/ads is the alternative for many. Friends of the devs so must be careful not to complain but from a consumer point of view what is safest? There is at best a phase to go through to see the light. Most will probably find a warez forum easier to navigate. Ease of use and argument of too much payware crap, not the same as people won't pay up, as reasoning I can understand. Actually also count freeware crap, that must also be diagnosed in details before it can be considered safe and clean to install.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2011, 02:18:39 AM by Bamse » Logged
app103
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« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2011, 02:39:22 AM »

Good for you app103 and your transformation to join the good people lead by Mouser - as opposed to the evil ones DC as a whole don't like. It is that black and white view I object to and also think is out of touch with reality, DC included.

Did you just call me out of touch with reality?  huh
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Bamse
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« Reply #37 on: February 25, 2011, 02:43:15 AM »

If you believe in the black and white way of looking at this yes. But it was more wondering about your choice of words than concluding anything. Why is it relevant to say these are good people? and what has Mousers influence to do with anything? He has nothing to do with piracy, neither has DC as such. Just part of the general user base smiley Not special I don't think.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2011, 02:46:01 AM by Bamse » Logged
app103
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« Reply #38 on: February 25, 2011, 03:10:01 AM »

If you believe in the black and white way of looking at this yes. But it was more wondering about your choice of words than concluding anything. Why is it relevant to say these are good people? and what has Mousers influence to do with anything? He has nothing to do with piracy, neither has DC as such. Just part of the general user base smiley Not special I don't think.

You don't hang out in the IRC channel as much as some of us do, so you probably wouldn't understand why I said what I said in the way I said it.

Quote
Not special I don't think.

That's where you are wrong...so very wrong.
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Bamse
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« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2011, 07:26:32 AM »

Well irc comforting peace and consensus on piracy probably is nice to experience. Does it take a whole 5 secs to reach agreement? Good for the group, useless in coming up with ideas on how to monetize/convert piracy Wink I believe most people are more than willing to pay for good stuff but also that they are not ready do so just because they see an ad-ridden site or a donate button. What I said about the current market place. It sucks. People are generally good and sane. Anyway, issue, including those who pirate, is more complex than you make it out to be - for convinience sake or because you are wise. Besides a few exceptions you will find it hard to keep them and us theme going for long. But of course easy for me to say since I have no problem with this topic. Almost interesting since it should encourage those in to software marketing to take a look at them self when they are done singing the song about how deevaluating and hurtful piracy is. Has been here for years, is unstoppable - what is the point of declaring it unwanted? Stating the obvious for the 100th time? Better protection needed make as much sense. Deal with it in a positive way, almost accept it. So instead of them and us see pirates as potential users/customers who right now is a bit confused on which shop to enter - but make sure your shop does not like a cheap whorehouse on sale.
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40hz
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« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2011, 07:42:04 AM »

Well irc comforting peace and consensus on piracy probably is nice to experience. Does it take a whole 5 secs to reach agreement?


Dear Mr. Bamse:

If all the members of DonationCoder got together and agreed to unanimously declare you the smartest person in the room, do you think you might be willing to give it a rest every once in a while?

 smiley

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Bamse
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« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2011, 07:45:55 AM »

I am perfectly relaxed with the topic. I am not attaching out of place feelings to it at all. We can debate smiley

Btw, there are no "all" Wink
« Last Edit: February 25, 2011, 07:47:49 AM by Bamse » Logged
app103
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« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2011, 08:31:33 AM »

Well irc comforting peace and consensus on piracy probably is nice to experience. Does it take a whole 5 secs to reach agreement? Good for the group, useless in coming up with ideas on how to monetize/convert piracy Wink

Huh? I was referring to the DC IRC channel, where I have come to know a number of people quite personally, rather than being limited to general software discussions on the forum. I don't know what you are referring to.
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Bamse
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« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2011, 09:40:39 AM »

I know what you meant unless irc has nothing to do with dc irc. Question is what is limiting though. I look left and right for input, have no focus or personal considerations to wonder about. Don't really care what a handful of people in irc room agree on, together. But no reason to worry about too much unwanted piracy talk, no need to jump on a high horse - very few will post about this for the reasons I have mentioned, main one being most do it them self. Anyone can claim whatever, including the opposite that DC is in fact totally free of piracy, here poor developer only suffer. Like a slaughterhouse, very rude to bring it up! I am convinced no special DC morale exist other than that of self interest, like the rest of the world follows - you think DC, all 200000+ members, is isolated and pure. We disagree.

I am sorry to limit you to general chitchat on the public forums...
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app103
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« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2011, 09:49:23 AM »

you think DC, all 200000+ members, is isolated and pure. We disagree.

I don't recall ever saying that. Seems you are disagreeing with your own ideas of what people are, since they certainly aren't mine.
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Bamse
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« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2011, 10:00:23 AM »

Great, then DC is not special and has same loose relationship to piracy as world outside DC. That has been my point all along smiley I find it difficult to make sense of any other point of view.
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40hz
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« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2011, 10:05:59 AM »

@Bamse - my original offer still stands.  Cool

« Last Edit: February 25, 2011, 10:11:23 AM by 40hz » Logged

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zridling
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« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2011, 10:20:12 AM »

@Bamse:
I don't see piracy in righteous, black-and-white terms except for myself and those I know and work with. I've quit two jobs -- one turned out that they wanted me in accounting! and the other was highly paid -- because my employer was pirating MS Office to his clients! Calls to Microsoft and the BSA provoked no response, so I gave my resignation and told the HR person exactly why in the brief exit interview. If someone has kleptomania with regard to software, heck, just switch to a Linux distro, add some software repositories to your update list and you'll have more software choices than time to sift through them.

On the gray side, I've had a very talented friend who was an artist and thought she had to have Photoshop. Lacking the cash, she downloaded and installed Photoshop 6 back then and used it to get a good job, and from then on got a small discount on subsequent versions through her employer. I'm betting Adobe loves her now that she's given them thousands of dollars.

Then there are the Chinese, who I consider the same as those murderous thugs robbing ships and kidnapping people from ships off the coast of Somalia. Will they be so forgiving of others when their tech gets stolen someday?
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Bamse
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« Reply #48 on: February 26, 2011, 03:02:57 PM »

I know you are a linux dude zridling and that there are some who stand by their words and conviction. I think I did mention exceptions a few times.

@40mhz, I am sure you would like to regulate Wink Can always tell... Apply for a moderator job if desire sticks. Piracy is typically an invitation for eager moderator wannabies people to react, old, weak and basically BS though there are people like zridling around who can ask WFT are you talking about?, standing up for ones word is a admirable feature - most fail and come off as hypocritical if they try, I estimate 95% hitrate when topic is piracy including every member on this domain smiley Probably not "wise" to say either with so sensitive a bunch of people around. Virtual sensitivity rocks!
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« Reply #49 on: February 26, 2011, 03:17:22 PM »

Another personal (self-interested undecided) report:

At some stage I decided to not use illegal software on my work machine (self-employed) and I got to say it feels good. I did go this road initially out of self-interest (having pirated stuff or using it illegally on a work machine could be risky) but it has brought me along a road of finding good cheap, or free, or donationware alternatives to the big names. I'm no saint, (lets just say I wont pay Adobe for software that they are selling but refuse to develop...) but just wanted to point out that the non-pirated road can be a nice road to take Wink
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