Welcome Guest.   Make a donation to an author on the site November 29, 2014, 01:20:19 AM  *

Please login or register.
Or did you miss your validation email?


Login with username and password (forgot your password?)
Why not become a lifetime supporting member of the site with a one-time donation of any amount? Your donation entitles you to a ton of additional benefits, including access to exclusive discounts and downloads, the ability to enter monthly free software drawings, and a single non-expiring license key for all of our programs.


You must sign up here before you can post and access some areas of the site. Registration is totally free and confidential.
 
Read the Practical Guide to DonationCoder.com Forum Search Features
   
   Forum Home   Thread Marks Chat! Downloads Search Login Register  
Pages: Prev 1 2 [3] 4 Next   Go Down
  Reply  |  New Topic  |  Print  
Author Topic: Choosing a CMS  (Read 12275 times)
Renegade
Charter Member
***
Posts: 11,850



Tell me something you don't know...

see users location on a map View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #50 on: January 31, 2011, 11:25:24 PM »

Honestly this is now getting outside of the range of my own understanding of GPL and licensing law. It *is* complicated stuff, which is unfortunate because it needs to be understood by many "lay" people to really be properly respected. This is part of the problem with the way the GPL is constructed; it asks things of the developer and, in some cases, the user that are not necessarily intuitive. Software use and selection shouldn't be this complicated...

- Oshyan

Contemplating the GPL is a dizzying decent into madness. cheesy  tellme  ohmy  huh  embarassed
Logged

Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker
mahesh2k
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 1,409



see users location on a map View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #51 on: February 01, 2011, 01:02:11 AM »

Poor chris pearson- designer of thesis theme (wordpress) got screwed because of this GPL hoopla tongue Seriously, if you want to make money from the software then never release it under GPL. If you want to be a hippie and 'love thy neighbor' type then go ahead GPL is for you. cheesy

By the way, i found a new CMS while registering to blogcritics.org. And unfortunately i lost the login details last month so i don't find any way to go inside and check the name of it. But it's very simple multi-author CMS for blog and magazine sites.
Logged
mahesh2k
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 1,409



see users location on a map View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #52 on: February 01, 2011, 01:05:14 AM »

Quote
If I distribute GPL'd software for a fee, am I required to also make it available to the public without a charge?
No. However, if someone pays your fee and gets a copy, the GPL gives them the freedom to release it to the public, with or without a fee. For example, someone could pay your fee, and then put her copy on a web site for the general public.


http://www.gnu.org/licens...html#DoesTheGPLAllowMoney

cheesy cheesy Tell me this is not in favor of piracy ?
Logged
Renegade
Charter Member
***
Posts: 11,850



Tell me something you don't know...

see users location on a map View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #53 on: February 01, 2011, 01:10:16 AM »

Quote
If I distribute GPL'd software for a fee, am I required to also make it available to the public without a charge?
No. However, if someone pays your fee and gets a copy, the GPL gives them the freedom to release it to the public, with or without a fee. For example, someone could pay your fee, and then put her copy on a web site for the general public.


http://www.gnu.org/licens...html#DoesTheGPLAllowMoney

cheesy cheesy Tell me this is not in favor of piracy ?

Well, that's kind of the point of the license -- to make it so that you can't pirate the software like that.

Though if you used GPL code in a proprietary program with a non-GPL license, that would be stealing, and I suppose a kind of piracy if piracy is just stealing.

But yeah -- I know what you mean.
Logged

Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker
40hz
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 10,890



see users location on a map View Profile Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #54 on: February 01, 2011, 07:22:04 AM »

If you want to be a hippie and 'love thy neighbor' type then go ahead GPL is for you.

Yeah. Can't allow too much of that to be going on.

Look how much better the world got, now that everybody finally got their heads on straight and started focusing on the important stuff - like making a buck, watching out for number one, and national security...

Love thy neighbor? (Only if she's pretty and understands it's just for one night, right?)  cheesy

And hippies? (Whatta buncha losers! It's yuppies that made the world what it is today!)  Cool

Yeah, good thing all that 60s and early-70s B.S. is over!  tongue

Logged

Don't you see? It's turtles all the way down!
mahesh2k
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 1,409



see users location on a map View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #55 on: February 01, 2011, 09:36:02 AM »

Quote
Love thy neighbor? (Only if she's pretty and understands it's just for one night, right?)


 Grin  Grin  Grin  Grin
Logged
40hz
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 10,890



see users location on a map View Profile Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #56 on: February 01, 2011, 10:27:31 AM »

By the way, i found a new CMS while registering to blogcritics.org. And unfortunately i lost the login details last month so i don't find any way to go inside and check the name of it. But it's very simple multi-author CMS for blog and magazine sites.

For commercial multi-author magazine type sites, ExpressionEngine is the best IMO. (Note: Not open source and not free - licenses run from $100-300 USD. Usage restrictions also apply. See user and developer licensing for details.)

EE is a great product. One of the best working and supported CMS products out there. No bad surprises with options since 22 add-ons and 100+ plug-ins have been fully vetted and ship with it.

And because it's a commercial release, there's none of those pesky and annoying GPL issues to worry about. tongue

Doesn't get much better than that I suppose.  Wink  smiley

« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 11:09:17 AM by 40hz » Logged

Don't you see? It's turtles all the way down!
40hz
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 10,890



see users location on a map View Profile Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #57 on: February 01, 2011, 10:58:21 AM »

Honestly this is now getting outside of the range of my own understanding of GPL and licensing law. It *is* complicated stuff, which is unfortunate because it needs to be understood by many "lay" people to really be properly respected. This is part of the problem with the way the GPL is constructed; it asks things of the developer and, in some cases, the user that are not necessarily intuitive. Software use and selection shouldn't be this complicated...

- Oshyan

Contemplating the GPL is a dizzying decent into madness. cheesy  tellme  ohmy  huh  embarassed

When it first came out, GPL was very easily understood.

It still is very easy to understand.

It only gets complicated if you try to come up with a way to talk your way around it.

The GPL got "wordy" once certain businesses and people started looking for ways to "legally" beat it. That's when all the verbiage and details started getting added. Not because anybody in FSF wanted it that way. It was because their attorneys determined things needed to be added to the text if there was to be any hope of making the GPL enforceable.

There was once a time when Microsoft argued that GPL was both illegal and unenforceable because it ran (in their opinion) counter to US commercial, copyright, and IP laws. If I recall correctly, Steve Ballmer even went so far as to say something about it being "unconstitutional." But that's Ballmer for you.

Apparently offering software to the public for free is a violation of the rights of the monopolists to squeeze as much out of the people as possible.

IF the GPL has gotten complicated, thank Microsoft, Verizon, D-Link, Fortinet, TomTom, and all the other jokers who tried (and failed) to find a way to incorporate FOSS software into their own products and not live up to their side of the bargain.

 Cool

« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 11:10:18 AM by 40hz » Logged

Don't you see? It's turtles all the way down!
Renegade
Charter Member
***
Posts: 11,850



Tell me something you don't know...

see users location on a map View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #58 on: February 01, 2011, 02:57:31 PM »

The thing is that it's not really free. Sure it's free to modify and distribute, but it's only free to use in certain ways. i.e. You can't use it in conjunction with non-GPL software.

Where a while back the GPL seemed to be about distribution, now it's about usage as well.

So just like many other licenses, it only offers limited freedom.

Most licenses let you use the software however you want. (Now) The GPL doesn't allow that.

The GPL allows you to redistribute the software. Most other licenses don't.

It's a radical about face turn.

@40Hz - Do you know if this case is ok or banned by the GPL:

1) Program A is commercial non-GPL (e.g. WinAmp)
2) Program B is a plugin for A and is GPL (e.g. A WinAmp plugin)

Is that permissible? B can't change A's license, so is it permissible to write GPL software that interfaces with non-GPL software?

Logged

Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker
40hz
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 10,890



see users location on a map View Profile Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #59 on: February 01, 2011, 03:42:08 PM »

AFAIK it is ok. The rules don't apply upstream. Nor has anyone in FSF ever tried to argue it overrides any licenses in the tool chain developers use. GPL conditions only apply to the GPLed code itself and downstream code that incorporates it's source. The FSF has stated numerous times that the GPL does not (and legally cannot) override any existing software licenses.

If Joomla is insisting anything that attaches to Joomla must also be GPL purely because of GPL, I think they're misinterpreting the rules. Commercial add-ons get developed for GPL products all the time. If they're saying an add-on which incorporates actual Joomla code must also be distributed to the public under GPL, then they are correct.

Note: GPL only applies to code. Nothing else  It does not recognize the notion of IP. If you make a functional lookalike of a GPL product, call it something else, and release it under a commercial license, that's your business and it's ok by them. It's only when you incorporate GPL code into something that the rules go into effect.

Try doing that to a commercially licensed piece of software.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 03:49:37 PM by 40hz » Logged

Don't you see? It's turtles all the way down!
JavaJones
Review 2.0 Designer
Charter Member
***
Posts: 2,537



see users location on a map View Profile WWW Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #60 on: February 01, 2011, 03:54:38 PM »

There are commercial Joomla extensions too, but evidently they also must be GPL compliant.

- Oshyan
Logged

The New Adventures of Oshyan Greene - A life in pictures...
Renegade
Charter Member
***
Posts: 11,850



Tell me something you don't know...

see users location on a map View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #61 on: February 01, 2011, 04:03:58 PM »

AFAIK it is ok. The rules don't apply upstream. Nor has anyone in FSF ever tried to argue it overrides any licenses in the tool chain developers use. GPL conditions only apply to the GPLed code itself and downstream code that incorporates it's source. The FSF has stated numerous times that the GPL does not (and legally cannot) override any existing software licenses.

If Joomla is insisting anything that attaches to Joomla must also be GPL purely because of GPL, I think they're misinterpreting the rules. Commercial add-ons get developed for GPL products all the time. If they're saying an add-on which incorporates actual Joomla code must also be distributed to the public under GPL, then they are correct.

Note: GPL only applies to code. Nothing else  It does not recognize the notion of IP. If you make a functional lookalike of a GPL product, call it something else, and release it under a commercial license, that's your business and it's ok by them. It's only when you incorporate GPL code into something that the rules go into effect.

Try doing that to a commercially licensed piece of software.

This is what I don't get about the Joomla/SMF issue. Sure, the bridge would need to be GPL, but... Why would that stop things there unless the SMF guys didn't want to release the bridge under the GPL. I can't see why not. If it only works with SMF, I can't see how it would matter. The SMF license wouldn't be affected.

But you can do it for commercial software -- create functional copies -- it happens all the time. I've seen it several times in the JoS forums and ASP newsgroups.
Logged

Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker
40hz
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 10,890



see users location on a map View Profile Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #62 on: February 01, 2011, 05:41:08 PM »

unless the SMF guys didn't want to release the bridge under the GPL

I think that's exactly where the crux of the issue rests.

Who knows? Maybe the SMF people think they have some 'really good code' in there that they just don't want to reveal to other people. Their prerogative. Be triff cool for them if that were the case.

Either way, we have to respect all the player's opinions on the matter. Especially since both sides apparently made a good-faith effort to come to an accomodation that would satisfy everybody.

Too bad it didn't work out. Sad

Life moves on... Thmbsup

But you can do it for commercial software -- create functional copies -- it happens all the time. I've seen it several times in the JoS forums and ASP newsgroups.

Oh you can.

And heaven help you if they:

  • can show you purchased a copy of their software (which makes you subject to their EULA)
  • can show you ever used a copy of their software (which makes you subject to their EULA)
  • have deeper pockets or better attorneys than you have

...and included a reverse engineering or "agreement not to make an equivalent product" clause in that EULA.

Because lawsuits over this sort of thing "happen all the time" too.  Grin

And it doesn't matter that most of these lawsuits have absolutely no legal merit. In a civil suit, those with the deepest pockets usually win. undecided



Logged

Don't you see? It's turtles all the way down!
Renegade
Charter Member
***
Posts: 11,850



Tell me something you don't know...

see users location on a map View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #63 on: February 01, 2011, 05:45:33 PM »

And it doesn't matter that most of these lawsuits have absolutely no legal merit. In a civil suit, those with the deepest pockets usually win. undecided

Sigh... And that's the sad thing... It's got nothing to do with legality, or right or wrong. So much for justice...

Logged

Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker
adi_barb
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 68



Knowledge comes, but wisdom lingers.

View Profile Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #64 on: February 02, 2011, 01:12:58 AM »

we can help you build your own custom cms from scratch depending on how complex you want it to be. could you please show some live example of similar sites or describe its structure briefly?
Logged
mahesh2k
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 1,409



see users location on a map View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #65 on: February 02, 2011, 01:44:10 AM »

EE looks good to me for magazine publication, only problem is custom plugins which is going to cost more in comparison to WP. (Nothing commercial vs gpl into this though, it's because software is too complex to manage and code) thumb down
Logged
Renegade
Charter Member
***
Posts: 11,850



Tell me something you don't know...

see users location on a map View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #66 on: February 02, 2011, 01:44:45 AM »

we can help you build your own custom cms from scratch depending on how complex you want it to be. could you please show some live example of similar sites or describe its structure briefly?

That's actually one of the things that I want to avoid. I want a more or less out-of-the-box CMS that I can upgrade in line with the CMS's development. I don't want to have to do development for things I don't need to. Why reinvent the wheel?

The site is small -- a dozen pages or so. I basically just need a CMS to do all the heavy lifting for me. At the moment I'm playing with WordPress. But I'm borderline ditching it because it's simply not working properly and I'm having to go in and start messing with the internals. (At the moment I'm screaming inside about some database issues.)

Anyways, the site so far is http://supersimple.me/.

I think I'm going to go back and rip it out though.
Logged

Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker
adi_barb
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 68



Knowledge comes, but wisdom lingers.

View Profile Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #67 on: February 02, 2011, 01:50:57 AM »

if you want a portfolio website than wp is just perfect especially with a nice design, or maybe joomla
I thought you wanted to have a complex portal which is better to be made from scratch... for a better development and potential.
Logged
allen
Charter Member
***
Posts: 1,173



Powered by Beard

see users location on a map View Profile Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #68 on: February 02, 2011, 05:05:04 PM »

The site is small -- a dozen pages or so. I basically just need a CMS to do all the heavy lifting for me. At the moment I'm playing with WordPress. But I'm borderline ditching it because it's simply not working properly and I'm having to go in and start messing with the internals. (At the moment I'm screaming inside about some database issues.) 

What is it you're trying to do that is forcing you to mess with the internals? It doesn't seem like what you're doing would require anything anywhere near complex enough to not be do-able within simple page templates.  Feel free to pm or e-mail me if you want to discuss it outside this thread.
Logged
Renegade
Charter Member
***
Posts: 11,850



Tell me something you don't know...

see users location on a map View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #69 on: February 02, 2011, 06:57:11 PM »

The site is small -- a dozen pages or so. I basically just need a CMS to do all the heavy lifting for me. At the moment I'm playing with WordPress. But I'm borderline ditching it because it's simply not working properly and I'm having to go in and start messing with the internals. (At the moment I'm screaming inside about some database issues.) 

What is it you're trying to do that is forcing you to mess with the internals? It doesn't seem like what you're doing would require anything anywhere near complex enough to not be do-able within simple page templates.  Feel free to pm or e-mail me if you want to discuss it outside this thread.

You wouldn't believe it...

Pages simply aren't showing up properly. I create and edit a page, but it shows other content, and not what I wanted.

I started trying to delete irrelevant rows in the DB and edit there, but it's just a waste of time. If I'm having these kinds of problems after trying to create the 4th page... I can only imagine that it will get worse.

I'd already spent several hours correcting errors and tweaking the theme I liked, in which time I re-learned just how horrible spaghetti code is. Sigh... Well, I suppose that I'll just call it a day and move on.
Logged

Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker
allen
Charter Member
***
Posts: 1,173



Powered by Beard

see users location on a map View Profile Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #70 on: February 02, 2011, 09:30:08 PM »

Perhaps it's a really poorly put together theme... I've never had any such nightmares. In an ideal world, creating a page would be as simple as making a new page (or post, depending on how you're organizing things) in the admin panel, they'd all inherit the default page theme. No more difficult than posting on this forum. You're not finding that to be the case? (It doesn't look like there's complex design on your site to require individual page templates)
Logged
Bamse
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 410


View Profile Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #71 on: February 02, 2011, 10:12:12 PM »

Theme was last updated 2010-04-13 so a few months before 3.0 = likely compatibility problems. Test with default theme should work then? The theme I follow a bit has 30000+ code lines, much come from tons of ever breeding theme features but changelog often have references to WP it self or popular plugins. You can get pretty screwed if what you use is dead or dying, what happens now 3.1 is around the corner? Part of the fun smiley
Logged
Renegade
Charter Member
***
Posts: 11,850



Tell me something you don't know...

see users location on a map View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #72 on: February 02, 2011, 10:32:35 PM »

It's bizarre.

I supposed that I'm somewhat spoiled by the DotNetNuke world where there is very strong separation between the data, business logic, and presentation layers. WP themes are spaghetti of while loops and all sorts of nastiness.

I supposed it could be compatibility...

The weird thing is that I can't think of why the wrong data would get returned (the duplicate photo finder page). That's just bizarre to me. I really don't see how a theme could cause that.

(I had encountered the problem, then deleted the page, emptied the trash, recreated the page... all to no avail.)
Logged

Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker
Renegade
Charter Member
***
Posts: 11,850



Tell me something you don't know...

see users location on a map View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #73 on: February 02, 2011, 10:35:32 PM »

Part of the fun smiley

I wish I could agree with that right now -- but it's not fun right now.

While I really wish that I could get in there, figure it all out, sort it, and get on with things, I just can't afford the time right now. Sad It's entirely about just not having time... Which kind of pisses me off, because I know that at some level there has to be some weirdness that I could solve. WP works all over the place, and I've used it many times before with success. This time though, it's being a bit of a pig, and I just don't have the time for it. Sad

I'll just hope that at some point later I can get back to WP with more time on my hands.
Logged

Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker
mahesh2k
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 1,409



see users location on a map View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #74 on: February 02, 2011, 11:54:54 PM »

I'm sure this has nothing to do with WP, looks more like DB issue to me. If there isn't any data in it then you can simply delete the wp installation and start from scratch.
Logged
Pages: Prev 1 2 [3] 4 Next   Go Up
  Reply  |  New Topic  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  
   Forum Home   Thread Marks Chat! Downloads Search Login Register  

DonationCoder.com | About Us
DonationCoder.com Forum | Powered by SMF
[ Page time: 0.057s | Server load: 0.09 ]