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Is SEO worth the trouble?

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mahesh2k:
 :D I like theme frameworks because i'm a theme developer and i find working with frameworks fun. I do agree that not all sites are made for the frameworks for example, personal blogs, small static sites and squeeze pages.

But once blog becomes too big to manage or with multiple authors, too many plugins, ads and other tracking fuss, it's better to put all those eggs in framework basket. That's the point when framework performs better with modular approach.

Agree there are no standards because that's what keeps themes different else it'll be again like single framework and multiple childs within WP, which we already have and we're just reinventing the wheels by creating forks. So that's the reason, they try to detach from the core and create small tribe around their own framework or shrotcodes etc.

Renegade:
Yes of course. But these are Wordpress frameworks, like those mahesh2k have mentioned. Example StudioPress http://www.studiopress.com/themes/genesis

The transporter plugin, made by framework people, is to migrate SEO data between supported WP plugins/themes. You need a tool to migrate! Which points to the problem I mentioned. mahesh2k find it hard to see there is a problem because as long as you use a framework you can switch to something else just like that. Yeees, but within that framework :)
-Bamse (January 27, 2011, 04:49 AM)
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Duh... That'll teach me to skim...  :o

Bamse:
I knew there had to be some connection with you and the frameworks, heh. Can always tell. Why not promote your self and link to your site or company?

In your shoes I might also be so positive towards them. Like Photoshop, learn that and go BAH to the rest, they suck! Solution has been found and I will stick to it. Logic should be appealing to all who have messed up with WP, 30+ plugins and what follows... But I have seen many people using frameworks (with too much money) doing crappy sites with little to no modification - and often also problems using "whatever" plugin they find cool. Frameworks are a bit exclu$ive, to people like you - with customers. There are exceptions and free frameworks but still. High level stuff it is.

ThemeFrame http://forum.bytesforall.com/showthread.php?t=9163 check video, what does mahesh2k think? Is it a danger to your job? Semi-framework with ease of use. Such plug&play production thingys exist already but future will bring more. WP is not easy to use when you start to tinker. The most simple things can go wrong and solution require knowledge and experience. Worse than Windows and why so many sites have errors. "Don't touch" is also boring, 13000 plugins to chose from is not a bad thing. Pros can troubleshoot, transform and modify provided they get paid!, amateurs often get stuck. Frameworks are supposed to give a more peaceful environment to be productive in. Should be a huge market for ThemeFrame stuff. There is a satisfaction in doing own website, own domain, own whatever. Is for people who won't join blogger, tumblr, weebly and all that. "I have a FB page, and Flickr" is irrelevant. I think it will be huge in not so far future.

A better link to ThemeFrame intro http://wordpress.bytesforall.com/?p=95

ThemeFrame is a very visual WordPress Theme Creation tool that runs on your desktop, in a browser. It creates unlimited standalone, white-label WP themes that you can use on unlimited sites for an unlimited time, you can even distribute/sell/give away the themes you create with ThemeFrame.ThemeFrame is not a WP theme itself, it does not install inside Wordpress and does not require Wordpress to run. Themes created with ThemeFrame don’t need ThemeFrame to run, they are standalone Themes in their own right.
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mahesh2k:
I knew there had to be some connection with you and the frameworks, heh. Can always tell. Why not promote your self and link to your site or company?
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That is because i'm freelancer on that side and work with many theme frameworks. (Genesis, thesis, hybrid, thematic etc but i do small projects using thematic for clients because it's free and if not me then any other developer can pick up from where i left). I'm planning to promote my work with donation model and not in terms of subscription or upfront payment :-)

what does mahesh2k think? Is it a danger to your job? Semi-framework with ease of use. Such plug&play production thingys exist already but future will bring more.
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Artisteer, ithemes theme builder, themeframe and many other tools exist for making themes. But still people pay for designer because they want custom design which these tools can't create effectively (as of now). Like writers job even designers will keep their work ticking even if any bot starts to do work of content writing or designing. *Hint* - many small and big businesses are using developers who can code using X/Y/Z frameworks, don't you think they can use artisteer or themeframe to do that ? ;) They can, but they don't. For now i don't have answer about what stops people from using bots instead of humans ? be it design or written content.But my personal observation is that when you do stuff automated way then you create a pattern to which humans respond with less interest. On the other hand when you involve humans into task, they take interest into it. It's similar to automated backlinks to page or organic link to page. Just my view, not sure i'm right with that.

Bamse:
More personal pages was actually my point of linking to ThemeFrame. If you look at forum of his main theme Atahualpa and the long threads about "See my site" then some obviously use it to full extend but most are not that interesting. Same goes for most themes which does allow heavy modification. When Thesis debate was on I checked many sites of those who used it (via comments) and went zzzzzzzz. Just not easy to do so there seems to be a market for easier ways of modifying appearance. I have read posts in ThemeFrame forum and it is clear many see it as a way out so to speak. Like other tools much output is decided by interface, does not matter everything is possible if only few can figure it out. Area will develop and for personal pages I think future is bright with "mod-tools".

May be you get more competition for cheap solutions to smaller businesses but should not be difficult to argue why it is worth paying up to those with money to spend. What you use is established and well supported.  Compare with Themeforest http://themeforest.net/category/wordpress Not that many can do such pretty designs. Some themes might be bargains compared to hiring you as they are perfect out of the box, tons of features - more than you will ever need!, but what happens when it breaks with WP 3.1? or they want some weird mod/plugin? or they simply screw up in massive control panel? Many of these webdevs only have an email address as support. As you say if you get run over by Drupal it will be easy to find someone who can pick up Genesis. Low risk will appeal to serious businesses - more so if they become aware of danger ;) They will not just go oh well, we better find another 40$ then. I don't see much point for private users to use frameworks but understand your motives, think I would do the same. There is always a risk of things breaking and if business are actively using site, like 24/7 problems are not accepted for long. 

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