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Author Topic: Why is it so hard to create a video cd/dvd on a windows machine?  (Read 4127 times)

techidave

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Why is it so hard to create a video cd/dvd on a windows machine?
« on: December 08, 2010, 09:10:40 PM »
Just run into this problem today at school and it is driving me nuts.  Definitely not my area of expertise  :-[ :P

We taped our basketball game yesterday to a mini-DV tape.  I am supposed to copy it off on cd or dvd for the coach.  I have a Toshiba DR420 (?) digital vidoe recorder hooked to my tv.  if i copy to this recorder it works fine on a dvd player hooked to a tv.  it finalizes the disk when done and its menu has no options for the type of format you would like it to be in (avi,wmv, etc).  the Sony Handycam HC26 or HCR26 (whatever) doesn't have any options on what format you record in.  Manual has a 2006 copyright date on it.

My computer is Win XP Pro SP3.

If I take said dvd made above, it will not play in a computer.  If I look at explorer, it says it is blank and shows no files or folders.  Put it in a tv and it will play.  go figure.

I tried the Sony Picture Viewer or whatever its called that came with it.  It looks like Windows 3.1.  I can copy to my computers hard drive but my 51 minute tape swells to 10 gigabytes!  I cannot use the sony software even though I am supposed to be able to burn it to a cd.  It doesn't recognize my cd burner.   :(

I can copy from my camera using Windows Movie Maker (version 2) and it will copy it in about 500 meg making it into a wmv.

So now how in the world do I copy that on to a cd or dvd?????  so that it plays in anything???  I am using xp pro and have tried Pinnacle videospin with no luck.  I would prefer a free solution if possible.  maybe Vegas??

Maybe there is a piece of software that will copy it from our Handycam to the computer and then have the option to burn it to a cd or dvd capable of playing on anything.  Maybe it already exists within Windows  XP??

I could order one of those Sony's One touch DVRecorders for about $200 but that will be a last resort.

thanks in advance for any ideas/advice,
Dave 

4wd

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Re: Why is it so hard to create a video cd/dvd on a windows machine?
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2010, 01:00:27 AM »
MiniDV has a data cost of approximately 1GB per 4 minutes of footage.

So 10GB will be approximately 40-50 minutes of footage - this is an AVI in raw DV format.

The DV codec is pretty standard on Windows machines so you should be able to use any All-in-one type video to DVD converter, check the thread here.

If you want to do a bit of editing first, then AVIDemux is free and will let you do it - you can then output to a DVD compliant MPG stream, (Auto->Optical Disc->DVD), which can be written directly to a DVD and any decent standard DVD player will be able to read it directly.

If you want to turn the output MPG into a properly formatted DVD then one of the converters in the thread above should do it without re-encoding.

Personally, I use Scenalyzer Live for transferring DV to the computer - nothing comes close to the ease with which this program works.  If you use MiniDV at a consumer level then quite frankly, I don't know how you can not use this program.  It makes the first step of choosing what to keep/remove so much easier.

For editing and encoding, AVIDemux, and for authoring DVDLab Pro - if you're not interested in menus or want simple menus only then the basic All-in-one converters will suffice.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 01:01:59 AM by 4wd »

Curt

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Re: Why is it so hard to create a video cd/dvd on a windows machine?
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2010, 02:34:12 AM »
and for once with perfect timing: http://www.giveawayo...poo-myautoplay-menu/
but be sure to remember to disable MyAshampoo Toolbar during installation!  

However, the gift is of course ment to make you upgrade:
 
Quote
As a user of Ashampoo® MyAutoplay Menu, we would like to present to you a new and much more powerful successor version of your current program:

Ashampoo® Burning Studio 10

Now available for you! We would like to invite you, as a loyal customer, to test this new version free and without obligation now. Take the opportunity of our fantastic top offer today and make sure to get your upgrade for the brand-new version.

Buy your upgrade now for only 19.99 USD instead of 49.99 USD
« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 02:51:13 AM by Curt »

Dormouse

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Re: Why is it so hard to create a video cd/dvd on a windows machine?
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2010, 03:03:25 AM »
Personally, I use Scenalyzer Live for transferring DV to the computer - nothing comes close to the ease with which this program works.  If you use MiniDV at a consumer level then quite frankly, I don't know how you can not use this program.  It makes the first step of choosing what to keep/remove so much easier.

Do you use the free or shareware version. I note that even the paid version is five years old & pre Vista & 7.

4wd

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Re: Why is it so hard to create a video cd/dvd on a windows machine?
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2010, 03:45:16 AM »
Personally, I use Scenalyzer Live for transferring DV to the computer - nothing comes close to the ease with which this program works.  If you use MiniDV at a consumer level then quite frankly, I don't know how you can not use this program.  It makes the first step of choosing what to keep/remove so much easier.

Do you use the free or shareware version. I note that even the paid version is five years old & pre Vista & 7.

I bought it more than 5 years ago, (IIRC about 8 years ago - so long ago I no longer have the original email purchase), I used the free version for all of an hour or two before deciding it really was worth the money.

It works fine on Win7 - probably the greatest disadvantage it has is that these days there are very few consumer level MiniDV camcorders available compared to a few years ago.  Everything has or is going to H.264 on flash or HDD and accessed via USB.

Still, I'll use it for as long as my MiniDV camcorder hangs together - although I do eye off the flash based HD camcorders occasionally, especially considering the difference in weight between them and my old Sony TRV-10E.

If anyone has a flash based camcorder I'd be interested to know whether Scenalyzer works with it.  I'm hoping that it's not tied to IEEE1394 and it can just use whatever codecs are installed for it's display.

and for once with perfect timing: http://www.giveawayo...poo-myautoplay-menu/
but be sure to remember to disable MyAshampoo Toolbar during installation!  

I believe that's for program disc menus, (eg. Installer menus when you insert a CD/DVD), not much good for video DVDs.

EDIT: DOH! I get your point about the Burning Studio - still there's plenty of free programs that will do the same, author and burn.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 04:31:41 AM by 4wd »

techidave

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Re: Why is it so hard to create a video cd/dvd on a windows machine?
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2010, 05:54:19 AM »
so what is the safest format to have if you want it to play on a dvd player connected to a tv?  A good dvd program like VLC, KMPlayer or the like can play just about any format with ease.  Can those set top boxes play ISO's also?

I know the newer players have a wider range of formats but what about the older ones?  Maybe there isn't a standard format yet? :(

Renegade

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Re: Why is it so hard to create a video cd/dvd on a windows machine?
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2010, 06:07:49 AM »
Regarding:
Quote
Why is it so hard to create a video cd/dvd on a windows machine?

I sympathize 100%.

I've used Vegas, and it's great. Easy to get things done. But that was a very long time ago.

I've also used a truckload of other programs, and had nothing but pain.

In fact, I am so entirely sick of it all that when I got Photoshop CS5 I just got the entire Master Suite so that I'd have Premiere. Premiere is fantastic.


The problem, to me, seems to be that there are a lot of difficult, terse, and crappy tools out there for Windows, and the only ones that are worth using aren't free.

I tried the free Pinnacle stuff and just about died at how useless it was. Windows Movie Maker is better. (Incidentally, Windows Movie Maker is really good for extremely simple stuff. I was impressed with it as I was expecting total crap. It's vastly improved now (Vista & Windows 7 versions).)
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4wd

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Re: Why is it so hard to create a video cd/dvd on a windows machine?
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2010, 06:26:59 AM »
so what is the safest format to have if you want it to play on a dvd player connected to a tv?  A good dvd program like VLC, KMPlayer or the like can play just about any format with ease.  Can those set top boxes play ISO's also?

I know the newer players have a wider range of formats but what about the older ones?  Maybe there isn't a standard format yet? :(

The only real standard formats are those specified by ISO, IEEE, etc.  Not AVI, MPG, MKV, ISO or any other container format.

Your best bet for maximum compatibility across the majority of players is a bog standard DVD format compliant disc using good quality DVD blanks.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 06:30:47 AM by 4wd »

techidave

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Re: Why is it so hard to create a video cd/dvd on a windows machine?
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2010, 07:13:21 AM »
4wd, what is "bog standard DVD format compliant disc"?

4wd

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Re: Why is it so hard to create a video cd/dvd on a windows machine?
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2010, 06:06:02 PM »
A DVD which has the correct file/folder structure, file format and filesystem to comply with the DVD Video specifications as laid out by the DVD Forum, (which you can obtain at a price).

If you require no editing for your purposes then try one of the following for converting the DV file into a DVD, (either burning direct, creating an ISO or creating the relevant file structure in a directory which you can then burn to DVD):

Avi2Dvd
DeVeDe - Save as an ISO and then burn to DVD using ImgBurn in Write Mode.
DVDFlick

If you want to try a commercial conversion program:

WinAVI - The only one I have any real experience with - results were very good so I saw no reason to use something else.
ConvertXtoDVD - Tried it when it first came out years ago but the limited range of output options wasn't to my liking.  Hopefully a lot better by now.

If the output of one of a program saves it as a DVD directory structure on the HDD, then I recommend using ImgBurn to write it to the DVD.  When you drop the VIDEO_TS folder on the ImgBurn window, (in Build Mode), it will prompt you by saying it looks like a DVD and offer to change the filesystem of the output DVD to the correct one, (ISO9660 + UDF).

2010-12-10_10-46-39.jpgWhy is it so hard to create a video cd/dvd on a windows machine?

Be aware, some DVD players might be so old and anal that they won't play anything other than commercial DVD movies, (*cough* Sony *cough*).  Some players might have trouble with DVD blanks from the cheaper end of the market and some will have trouble with DVD+R discs.

Try writing to a DVD-RW first to see if they'll play them, if they can do that chances are very good that good quality DVD-R will work fine.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 08:34:19 PM by 4wd »

Edvard

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Re: Why is it so hard to create a video cd/dvd on a windows machine?
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2010, 06:46:52 PM »
I used to work with a lady who did VHS -> DVD conversions as a side business.
She SWORE by Sonic (I think it was MyDVD or ReelDVD...).

I've had pretty good results using DVDStyler on Linux.
Windows version, not so much, but it may work for you...
http://www.dvdstyler.org/



Shades

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Re: Why is it so hard to create a video cd/dvd on a windows machine?
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2010, 06:21:35 PM »
@techidave:
VLC can play a DVD image (as .iso file) directly, without burning it. Any kind of error that can occur when creating your own DVD's (for example: insufficient menu structure, sync errors) can be easily detected this way without waiting for the rewriteable DVD to be burned. Saves a lot of time and potential embarrassments.

After all errors are eliminated you can burn your mastercopy, that you can give to your coach or give/sell it to staff/students as school promotion...or whatever tickles your fancy.  :)

MilesAhead

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Re: Why is it so hard to create a video cd/dvd on a windows machine?
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2010, 06:35:50 PM »
@techidave:
VLC can play a DVD image (as .iso file) directly, without burning it. Any kind of error that can occur when creating your own DVD's (for example: insufficient menu structure, sync errors) can be easily detected this way without waiting for the rewriteable DVD to be burned. Saves a lot of time and potential embarrassments.

After all errors are eliminated you can burn your mastercopy, that you can give to your coach or give/sell it to staff/students as school promotion...or whatever tickles your fancy.  :)

Not all problems show up in software players.  I've used resize filters that looked perfect on the PC.  Burned a disc and put it in the stand-alone only to get stuttering motion.  I check with a software player first. If it's a process I've used a bunch of times with no problems then I'll usually burn to DVDR.  But if I'm doing anything new I'll burn to an erasable.

Even if it's a DVD9 I'll just shrink it quick to DVD5 and burn on an erasable to check for problems.  Then burn the real DVD9 if it looks ok on the stand-alone.

4wd

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Re: Why is it so hard to create a video cd/dvd on a windows machine?
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2010, 09:38:00 PM »
+1 with Miles here - many a time I've written a DVD that's perfectly fine when played on a computer but looks like shit when viewed on a TV using a standalone player.

DVD Shrink, (yeah it is old), is usually very good at finding any faults with the DVD structure but the only way to test the quality of playback is to put it into a standalone and watch it on TV.

You may have to tweak output by changing field order, deinterlacing, etc to get acceptable output.

4wd

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Re: Why is it so hard to create a video cd/dvd on a windows machine?
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2010, 07:19:48 PM »
Tacking another program onto this thread that I just discovered: Free Video Converter from freemake.com

2010-12-23_12-16-00.jpg

Not only does it have all the usual output options, (DVD, BluRay, MKV, AVI, Apple, Sony, Android, Youtube and more), deal with quite a few input formats, (200+ on the website) - it can also take URL input from a variety of video websites, (eg. Youtube, Nicovision, etc - 40 odd) download and then convert.

2010-12-23_12-15-23.jpg
Red light sites not listed in above grab, full list at the website.

Renegade

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Re: Why is it so hard to create a video cd/dvd on a windows machine?
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2010, 12:18:58 AM »
Tacking another program onto this thread that I just discovered: Free Video Converter from freemake.com

But does it work?
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4wd

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Re: Why is it so hard to create a video cd/dvd on a windows machine?
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2010, 12:55:36 AM »
Worked here, put in a Youtube URL (actually it just grabbed it out of the clipboard when I selected URL input), selected AVI, it downloaded and converted - quality was very good too.