Home | Blog | Software | Reviews and Features | Forum | Help | Donate | About us
topbanner_forum
  *

avatar image

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
  • December 03, 2016, 12:51:18 AM
  • Proudly celebrating 10 years online.
  • Donate now to become a lifetime supporting member of the site and get a non-expiring license key for all of our programs.
  • donate

Author Topic: What's the best The BAT! version?  (Read 5027 times)

CodeTRUCKER

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 1,060
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
What's the best The BAT! version?
« on: November 07, 2010, 12:18:49 AM »
I have a license for The BAT! up to version 4.0.34, but I have not been real impressed with all I've read on Ritlabs forums.  So, I am interested in if anyone is favorably impressed with any version after 4.0.34 and why you like that version.  Thanks.

<Edit> Added, "and why you like that version" to clarify my request. </Edit>
« Last Edit: November 09, 2010, 10:49:13 AM by CodeTRUCKER »

f0dder

  • Charter Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,029
  • [Well, THAT escalated quickly!]
    • View Profile
    • f0dder's place
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: What's the best The BAT! version?
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2010, 05:15:53 AM »
I moved from TheBAT to Thunderbird; I didn't like the "skinning" and draggable toolbars they added (makes the app look uglier, and there were enough reasonable things to spend their development time on instead of that useless crap). Add to that the uncanny feeling having your mail archive in a proprietary format without any easy way of getting it exported feels...

Thunderdbird definitely isn't perfect, but it works well enough that it's a viable choice for me, and I know it will be easy migrating to something else if necessary, because it uses industry standard message store format (yes, mbox is an utterly lame format, and totally unsuitable for file-based backups, but just about anything can process it :)).
- carpe noctem

CodeTRUCKER

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 1,060
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: What's the best The BAT! version?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2010, 10:11:02 AM »
I moved from TheBAT to Thunderbird; I didn't like the "skinning" and draggable toolbars they added (makes the app look uglier, and there were enough reasonable things to spend their development time on instead of that useless crap). Add to that the uncanny feeling having your mail archive in a proprietary format without any easy way of getting it exported feels...

Thunderdbird definitely isn't perfect, but it works well enough that it's a viable choice for me, and I know it will be easy migrating to something else if necessary, because it uses industry standard message store format (yes, mbox is an utterly lame format, and totally unsuitable for file-based backups, but just about anything can process it :)).

Given the above and aside from the free vs. pay issue, do you see Postbox as an improvement to TB or is it heading in the wrong direction?

Renegade

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,220
  • Tell me something you don't know...
    • View Profile
    • Renegade Minds
    • Donate to Member
Re: What's the best The BAT! version?
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2010, 09:03:57 PM »
I'm currently having major Outlook issues... 7 GB of PST nonsense...

I would like a decent, intelligently designed client that works. i.e. I want a client that uses an RDBMS instead of flat files (grrrrr).

I looked at The Bat a long time ago, but never got into it.

I used to use Thunderbird for a long time, but unresolved critical bugs forced me over to Outlook Express, which worked. I then moved to Outlook as it became usable in 2007 (2003 was insane).

I have a lot of email, and that's a concern. Flat file programs break down because they are not capable of managing large amounts of email. Hence, my desire for an RDBMS-based email client.

I'd use The Bat if it worked. Any recommendations? I'm getting sick of my email client and email server lately, and considering just getting a new server entirely then switching my current one to a LAMP stack.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Darwin

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,984
    • View Profile
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: What's the best The BAT! version?
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2010, 09:17:14 PM »
Renegade, I freakin' LOVE Outlook and am using 2010, which is great, IMHO. What I have done to keep my PST file size down is to install an attachments manager. A very good one is DetachPipe but I use EZDetach. Both save attachments to a separate folder and create a link to it. Both have LOADS of options... EZDetach has a more generous license than DetachPipe*, or it did when i purchased several years ago. Anyway, doing this keeps my PST file well below 300MB while I have several GB of attachments stored separately.

*DetachPipe was actually superior when I purchased EZDetach - I bought the latter and then discovered the former - but I suggested the features that I missed from DetachPipe and they were implemented fairly quickly... Datamystic (DetachPipe developer) uses a subscription based licensing model whereas AFAICT EZDetach, which is updated several times a year, has either a lifetime license or the developer has yet to release a major upgrade (despite adding the options that I requested. I thought they really added to the package!
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

Renegade

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,220
  • Tell me something you don't know...
    • View Profile
    • Renegade Minds
    • Donate to Member
Re: What's the best The BAT! version?
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2010, 09:37:42 PM »
Renegade, I freakin' LOVE Outlook and am using 2010, which is great, IMHO. What I have done to keep my PST file size down is to install an attachments manager. A very good one is DetachPipe but I use EZDetach. Both save attachments to a separate folder and create a link to it. Both have LOADS of options... EZDetach has a more generous license than DetachPipe*, or it did when i purchased several years ago. Anyway, doing this keeps my PST file well below 300MB while I have several GB of attachments stored separately.

*DetachPipe was actually superior when I purchased EZDetach - I bought the latter and then discovered the former - but I suggested the features that I missed from DetachPipe and they were implemented fairly quickly... Datamystic (DetachPipe developer) uses a subscription based licensing model whereas AFAICT EZDetach, which is updated several times a year, has either a lifetime license or the developer has yet to release a major upgrade (despite adding the options that I requested. I thought they really added to the package!

The world is just sooooo small... Simon (the DetachPipe developer) lives about 20 minutes away from me. :)

I should have a look at them. At the moment I'm backing up Outlook to transfer to my new desktop box. (It's currently on my laptop.)

I'll have to look at the licenses. I don't like things that turn off after a year or whatever. I don't mind paying again for upgrades, but I won't buy software that turns off.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Darwin

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,984
    • View Profile
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: What's the best The BAT! version?
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2010, 09:48:00 PM »
Simon's a standup guy, too. I bought three or four of his other products and he was REALLY helpful getting me up to speed in their use. BTW, you can use whatever version you last had an update agreement for in perpetuity.
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

Jibz

  • Developer
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,125
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: What's the best The BAT! version?
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2010, 02:26:21 AM »
Inspired by f0dder's comments, I installed Thunderbird again to give it another spin. Moving mail from The Bat! is of course a pain, but it's manageable. What really gets me though is the stuff that should just work but doesn't.

For instance, I entered name and e-mail for an account, and the fancy auto-configure checked and created an IMAP account for me. Now the account was actually a POP account, but there was no way to change it back, and there was no way to do add an account manually without running the auto-configure. A little searching around with google (since the help site is quite useless) showed that you have to "press the stop button" to stop the auto-config when it starts and then turn it into a POP account.

After adding a couple more accounts I wanted to move the last one up on the list to a different position. Drag and drop doesn't work, nothing in the right-click menu .. back to google. If you want to reorder the list you have to install an addon or manually edit an ini file somewhere in your profile folder.

Then I exported mails into mbox format from The Bat! Now like f0dder says this is a very standard format, and is the format Thunderbird uses to store e-mail as well, so clearly it should be easy to import then? Alas, File->Open only reads eml files and the import wizard will only auto-import from other clients with no option to select and import from a file. Again you have to google and figure out that you have to install another addon to be able to import from the programs own native format.

Thunderbird seems like a nice e-mail client, there is a lot to like about the filtering and stuff. It would be nice to move away from The Bat! (v4.2.36.4), which is an awesome e-mail client, but the yearly upgrade doesn't seem to really get you more than UI tweaks these days.

I just think they need to work on making the user experience feel a little less like a beta, and while relying on plugins to provide functionality is fine in some cases, there is a limit to what simple stuff that should just work you want to rely on some 3rd party developer to maintain and get to work when the next update is released.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2010, 09:12:38 AM by Jibz »

Dormouse

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • Posts: 1,044
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: What's the best The BAT! version?
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2010, 03:50:52 AM »
I'm always surprised to see people recommending Outlook. I've used all versions and it is still feature-lite (needing other programs be bought to make it properly useful) and gets bogged down when there is too much data. I've never understood the attraction to non-corporates, although I can see that its ubiquity can make a good pipe between two useful programs.

With email, I have for a long time run at least 3 main progs concurrently (gives me cover in case something goes wrong with one). One webmail (currently Gmail); one main productivity (currently The Bat!) and one alternative (currently Opera, used to be TB). I tend to used Mailstore and Archivarius as extra stores and search engines.

I am on the latest version of TheBat! because I got it extra-ordinarily cheap. It works perfectly well, but I would probably not have upgraded at a noticeable cost; I would never upgrade early in the product life cycle because new versions can have teething problems. I don't really worry about upgrades because the current version is very robust for me and does everything I need. Very configurable. Rather old-fashioned look and interface, but I can live with that. It must be doing something right to be, it seems, the last of the paid for pure email programs. OTOH, that does cause a slight concern about the long-term viability of its business model.

TB just seemed increasingly pointless. Too slow and heavy and added no extra functionality.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2010, 02:18:48 PM by Dormouse »

mouser

  • First Author
  • Administrator
  • Joined in 2005
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,405
    • View Profile
    • Mouser's Software Zone on DonationCoder.com
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: What's the best The BAT! version?
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2010, 04:03:30 AM »
I'm very satisfied with thebat latest version.  Can't say i ever have felt any really compelling reason to upgrade but i do anyway.  But then again, that's a good part of why I'm so happy with the program -- it has always does what I need it to do and never given me any trouble.

Eóin

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,401
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: What's the best The BAT! version?
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2010, 06:08:21 AM »
I more or less moved away from TheBat! recently too. I did try Thunderbird and was impressed by how far its come, but in the end I settled on Windows Live Mail.

In spite of it's monstrous RAM usage, I quite like it.

Darwin

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,984
    • View Profile
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: What's the best The BAT! version?
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2010, 08:03:16 AM »
I'm always surprised to see people recommending Outlook.

I knew that posting about Outlook would be controversial. I've tried other e-mail clients/PIMs (Thunderbird, Eudora, Do-Organizer, even own a current license for the Bat!, and some others) but Outlook does all that I need it to do and it's always part of the Office suite that I buy. I'm becoming more and more minimalistic in my software installs (much to Curt's shock elsewhere on the forum!). So, couple Outlook's integration with other components of Office with the fact that it does all that I need it to do, and I'm a happy camper. YMMV (and clearly does!), of course...

BTW, I last installed and used the Bat! about a year ago and I can see why people like it.

And finally, a PS: in the past, NOT installing Outlook with Office was either not an option or (my memory is going?) I wasn't savvy enough at the time not to install it, which ties in with my "minimalistic" philosphy above. Actually, back then I didn't care and loaded LOTS of software on my harddrive. However, it ALWAYS irked me that I had a PIM/email client already installed and would be using something else. This is odd given that I've never had a problem (until recently) running multiple applications that overlap in functionality. Anyway, I suppose this is an example of MS winning by forcing an application upon me... So be it! I like Outlook  :-[
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

CodeTRUCKER

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 1,060
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: What's the best The BAT! version?
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2010, 08:57:05 AM »
@ Everyone who use(ed) "The BAT!" - Could you please extend the courtesy of editing your posts to include the version number you are using?  Just saying "the latest version" is not very helpful, especially given Ritlab's versioning?


@ Mouser -
I'm very satisfied with thebat latest version.  Can't say i ever have felt any really compelling reason to upgrade but i do anyway.  But then again, that's a good part of why I'm so happy with the program -- it has always does what I need it to do and never given me any trouble.
So I take it that f0dder's comment...
Quote
...
Add to that the uncanny feeling having your mail archive in a proprietary format without any easy way of getting it exported feels..."
... is nothing that concerns you?  I have to admit proprietary incarceration of *my* data bothers me too, which is why Outlook has not held a place of high regard.  I will say I have noticed that software clients that use a proprietary db do tend to be more robust and stable.

mouser

  • First Author
  • Administrator
  • Joined in 2005
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,405
    • View Profile
    • Mouser's Software Zone on DonationCoder.com
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: What's the best The BAT! version?
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2010, 09:03:49 AM »
well that does concern me in general, and specifically.  you can export messages from thebat, but there is no good way that i know of to export and preserve the account structure let along multiple accounts.  so yes, it is a concern.  especially if i were a new user coming to the question of what email client to use, it would weight heavier against thebat.

Jibz

  • Developer
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,125
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: What's the best The BAT! version?
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2010, 09:18:51 AM »
I must admit I am not that terribly bothered ideologically by the format being proprietary. As long as there is a reasonable export path.

The real problem is that it means it's hard to find support for it in other tools, like backup software or search tools (I think Archivarius is the only decent one with The Bat! support).

f0dder

  • Charter Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,029
  • [Well, THAT escalated quickly!]
    • View Profile
    • f0dder's place
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: What's the best The BAT! version?
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2010, 09:49:29 AM »
As long as there is a reasonable export path.
You can export from TheBAT, and to a standard format... but it requires a manual step for each and every (sub)folder, which is darn tedious.
- carpe noctem

Dormouse

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • Posts: 1,044
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: What's the best The BAT! version?
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2010, 02:07:13 PM »
@ Everyone who use(ed) "The BAT!" - Could you please extend the courtesy of editing your posts to include the version number you are using?  Just saying "the latest version" is not very helpful, especially given Ritlab's versioning?

I assumed that the "latest version" statement basically meant including the last paid update, rather than not. Not necessarily a simple matter since that didn't come as a vanilla v4.
Anyway, I'm currently on 4.2.36.4; which is the latest version.

Dormouse

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • Posts: 1,044
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: What's the best The BAT! version?
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2010, 02:34:39 PM »
I knew that posting about Outlook would be controversial ...  So be it! I like Outlook  :-[

I don't know about controversial, just something I've never quite been able to understand. And you are in good company, because Carol also likes it, IIRC. For me, it has always caused headaches or frustrations on a reasonably regular basis which other progs haven't. But, if that's not your experience, then it certainly makes sense to use something you have already installed. And if you LOVE it, you won't want to be without it anyway - for better or worse   ;D

Tuxman

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 1,764
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: What's the best The BAT! version?
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2010, 06:43:58 PM »
The Bat! is a solid mailing application. I spend some time with it now and then, and if I wouldn't be a Thunderbird-addict, I would probably use it exclusively. It's just that it came too late.  :-[

CodeTRUCKER

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 1,060
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: What's the best The BAT! version?
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2010, 10:56:41 AM »
Oops! ...the whole point of this thread was to try to find out "why" folks liked a specific version of The BAT! over the previous version they had, but I realized I did not ask that specific question at first.  I have corrected that in the initial post. 

If those who have posted previously can expand your original answer to include this answer, it would be appreciated.  :up:

Dormouse

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • Posts: 1,044
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: What's the best The BAT! version?
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2010, 01:20:43 PM »
For me, there is nothing better nor worse with the version that I use to 4.0.34