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Poll

How much soda (pop) do you drink?

Absolutely NONE. Never.
Very little. 1 or 2drinks  a week.
A glass/bottle/can a day: < 500 ml
More than 500 ml per day and < 1 liter
More than 1 litre per day
Rarely... Very rarely...

Last post Author Topic: How much soda (pop) do you drink?  (Read 17325 times)

tomos

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Re: How much soda (pop) do you drink?
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2010, 04:18:14 AM »
This guy I find very interesting - he regularly writes for scientific mags (no, I dont read them) and has a very scientific approach in his newsletter (which info is unfortunately is not available online). Here's a good link for a summary though - http://www.thepaleodiet.com/faqs/
The message:
we had a pretty standard diet for a huge timespan, this has only changed since the introduction of farming (of grain in particular).
Our bodies have not adjusted towards this relatively new food etc. etc. (Of course sugar is another new food for us...)

So his approach is to chuck the carbos (concentrated/processed - grain causes us most problems, but also potato, not sure about rice). Also not eat grain-or-corn-fed beef (as it's an unnatural diet for cattle too which causes a lot of health problems for them and indirectly for us as well)- rather eat grass-fed beef (I dont know about pigmeat - pigs would have eaten anything).
And no again, I havent tried it :) but I do eat more protein now than I used to.
Tom
« Last Edit: October 12, 2010, 04:19:51 AM by tomos »

y0himba

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Re: How much soda (pop) do you drink?
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2010, 04:57:42 AM »
Simple answer-I drink none.
My Web Site:  http://www.y0himba.net

Fred Nerd

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Re: How much soda (pop) do you drink?
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2010, 06:31:23 AM »
I haven't watched any videos or read any articles since I'm a bit short for time, but has anyone got started on energy drink?
The new Ice Coffee V (don't know if you have it in USA) is so powerful it HAS to be seriously bad for you.

Get work done quickly though.


MilesAhead

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Re: How much soda (pop) do you drink?
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2010, 01:59:07 PM »
I haven't tried any of them.  I've seen the use of them on Japanese TV shows especially, years before the push started in the USA. I wonder if it's something to do with outsourcing?  The Japanese lost of lot of jobs to Korea. Now we have lost manufacturing jobs to China.  The competition gets tougher for remaining jobs so people inject steroids to avoid being cut? :)
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 02:00:40 PM by MilesAhead »

Deozaan

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Re: How much soda (pop) do you drink?
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2010, 11:37:04 PM »
I finally got around to watching the video. Very, very interesting. I've noticed a lot of foods getting rid of High Fructose Corn Syrups, but they still have fructose and corn syrups, which I guess are still bad for you.


Renegade

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Re: How much soda (pop) do you drink?
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2010, 12:00:38 AM »
I finally got around to watching the video. Very, very interesting. I've noticed a lot of foods getting rid of High Fructose Corn Syrups, but they still have fructose and corn syrups, which I guess are still bad for you.

It's pretty mind-blowing.

I'm still not sure about the differences in different sources of fructose, but I think they're about the same as far as it goes. i.e. fructose is fructose is fructose. Not sure about that though.

There's a move now to rename HFCS to "corn sugar".
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Deozaan

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Re: How much soda (pop) do you drink?
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2010, 06:54:28 PM »
So, after watching that video on sugar/fructose for 1.5 hours saying calories don't matter, sugar matters, how do you explain this?

For 10 weeks, Mark Haub, a professor of human nutrition at Kansas State University, ate one of these sugary cakelets every three hours, instead of meals. To add variety in his steady stream of Hostess and Little Debbie snacks, Haub munched on Doritos chips, sugary cereals and Oreos, too.

His premise: That in weight loss, pure calorie counting is what matters most -- not the nutritional value of the food.

The premise held up: On his "convenience store diet," he shed 27 pounds in two months.

This is directly contradictory to what Dr. Lustig said in his sugar videos.


Renegade

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Re: How much soda (pop) do you drink?
« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2010, 07:14:11 PM »
So, after watching that video on sugar/fructose for 1.5 hours saying calories don't matter, sugar matters, how do you explain this?

...

This is directly contradictory to what Dr. Lustig said in his sugar videos.

I think that there's more than one road leading to Rome.

Here's a diet that's likely to guarantee weight loss... Tons of celery well above the accepted calorie intake level and crystal meth (may be substituted with heroin). Doesn't mean it's a good diet though.

I think that we're basically talking about INCREDIBLY complex systems (the human body), and that there's simply no end to the different solutions that we could come up with. I think that some solutions will have adverse effects as well.

Also, remember that the single instance there from Dr. Mark Haub is just that. One instance. Dr. Lustig has a significant amount of data and sources.

Dr. Haub does not make the logical fallacy "from one therefore all".

Dr. Lustig's conclusions are reasonable: from many, likely for almost all. We accept there are outliers in systems.

I would guess that there are factors that are not being taken into account that would inform us better about why these 2 seemingly reasonable conclusions/theories are at odds with each other. Particle-wave anyone? :) We really don't know much about the human body as a system. Modern medical science is really still quite primitive.

Anyways, just my $0.02 on the topic.
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tomos

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Re: How much soda (pop) do you drink?
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2010, 04:19:03 AM »
So, after watching that video on sugar/fructose for 1.5 hours saying calories don't matter, sugar matters, how do you explain this?

For 10 weeks, Mark Haub, a professor of human nutrition at Kansas State University, ate one of these sugary cakelets every three hours, instead of meals. To add variety in his steady stream of Hostess and Little Debbie snacks, Haub munched on Doritos chips, sugary cereals and Oreos, too.

His premise: That in weight loss, pure calorie counting is what matters most -- not the nutritional value of the food.

The premise held up: On his "convenience store diet," he shed 27 pounds in two months.

This is directly contradictory to what Dr. Lustig said in his sugar videos.

Good question. That was kind of touched on earlier - coke diet and marsbars diet. I dont know why they work for weight loss. (The body cant afford to put on weight when it's getting such a nutritionally poor diet? or that the combinations of food-types is not there in that diet (read on).)

It bothers me though that this guy is a "professor of human nutrition" and he cant see that all this really proves is that in weight loss, pure calorie counting is what matters most - when you eat a "convenience store diet". This does *not* prove the same for a regular diet (whatever that might be).

And let's face it, a 'diet' like that will probably leave you with diabetes and other health problems fairly quickly.
Ironically my interest in all this stems from the fact I dont/cant put on weight. Because of that, I used to think I could eat anything, but eventually I wrecked my digestion and I eat reasonably healthily now. For a good while (after the wrecking) I ate along the food 'combining'/seperating lines. Idea being that different food types (protein, carbos, fruit, sugary stuff, etc) get digested in different ways in the gut and so should not be eaten together (e.g. protein+veg *or* carbos+veg). What I've stuck with is keeping the sugary stuff seperate. Actually I love the way here in Germany that they have cake in the afternoon (well, at the weekend) - traditionally dinner would be midday, cake sometime mid afternoon after a few hours of digestion. After a good meal I have a lovely aftertaste of savoury food - the idea of chucking something sweet after it is kind of weird to me now...

I dont know if any scientific research has been done on the food separation idea (I dont really care any more either!) but it's almost comical how much it upset traditional nutritionists (possibly people like the guy quoted above, no, not you Deo :p).
Tom

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Re: How much soda (pop) do you drink?
« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2010, 04:49:53 AM »
Actually I love the way here in Germany that they have cake in the afternoon (well, at the weekend) - traditionally dinner would be midday, cake sometime mid afternoon after a few hours of digestion. After a good meal I have a lovely aftertaste of savoury food - the idea of chucking something sweet after it is kind of weird to me now...

That's an interesting observation. I ONLY ever have "dessert" when I'm in North America. Normally, if I have "dessert", it's fruit after a meal. Fruit is very sweet and is a nice way to end a meal. Picked that up in Korea. Fruit is popular for dessert in many places in Asia.

On a kind of tangent, I remember a friend of mine's wife saying, "You all just don't know how to cook or eat in the West." When you look at things, she's right.
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tomos

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Re: How much soda (pop) do you drink?
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2010, 07:27:15 AM »
So, after watching that video on sugar/fructose for 1.5 hours saying calories don't matter, sugar matters, how do you explain this?

For 10 weeks, Mark Haub, a professor of human nutrition at Kansas State University, ate one of these sugary cakelets every three hours, instead of meals. To add variety in his steady stream of Hostess and Little Debbie snacks, Haub munched on Doritos chips, sugary cereals and Oreos, too.

His premise: That in weight loss, pure calorie counting is what matters most -- not the nutritional value of the food.

The premise held up: On his "convenience store diet," he shed 27 pounds in two months.

This is directly contradictory to what Dr. Lustig said in his sugar videos.

Here's a very interesting article about this experiment (I reread Deo's link there as well - it is actually honest & open - he says they dont know what it proves)
The Twinkie Diet for Fat Loss

I think I'll have to reread it to understand it fully...

from http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/ as recommended by Lutz_
Tom

tomos

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Re: How much soda (pop) do you drink?
« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2012, 06:01:44 AM »
This video actually gives you REAL science to back up claims, and not just some namby-pamby soft claims and BS like you usually get. (Very refreshing!)

Sugar the bitter truth

I recommend watching that video very highly. I cannot stress enough just how insightful it is, and how good the information is. Most often you get some wishy-washy BS with no hard science and no real information. This guy is hard core and doesn't dumb things down. He has actual information and explains it intelligently. That being said, put your thinking cap on as it will challenge you unless you are well educated in biochemistry.

Accidentally came across a very good critique of this video here:
The bitter truth about fructose alarmism.
Summary:
it's all about context/quantity. Demonising one thing/factor is not helpful for people's understanding of things. And it appears that he (Lustig) has gotten a lot more carried away than the evidence warrants.
The critique is *not* saying sugar is good for you :p

Gets very well trashed out in the comments, including some debate with Dr. Lustig (author/presenter of the video).
Tom

Renegade

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Re: How much soda (pop) do you drink?
« Reply #37 on: May 29, 2012, 07:23:37 AM »
This video actually gives you REAL science to back up claims, and not just some namby-pamby soft claims and BS like you usually get. (Very refreshing!)

Sugar the bitter truth

I recommend watching that video very highly. I cannot stress enough just how insightful it is, and how good the information is. Most often you get some wishy-washy BS with no hard science and no real information. This guy is hard core and doesn't dumb things down. He has actual information and explains it intelligently. That being said, put your thinking cap on as it will challenge you unless you are well educated in biochemistry.

Accidentally came across a very good critique of this video here:
The bitter truth about fructose alarmism.
Summary:
it's all about context/quantity. Demonising one thing/factor is not helpful for people's understanding of things. And it appears that he (Lustig) has gotten a lot more carried away than the evidence warrants.
The critique is *not* saying sugar is good for you :p

Gets very well trashed out in the comments, including some debate with Dr. Lustig (author/presenter of the video).

Thanks for the update there!

A couple interesting comments:

http://www.alanarago...larmism/#comment-983

http://www.alanarago...armism/#comment-1012

I bailed after so long... the comments go on FOREVER! Read well below that, but...

To put it in context, the page is over 100,000 words...

However, with respect to the issue of Japan and added sugar, there's a very big problem with what most people are talking about there.

The issue is "added sugar". Desserts across Asia tend to be rice, coconut, sugar cane, and bean based, with no added sugar (feel free to throw in some more). They're sweet enough as they are. I saw a lot on that, but nobody seemed to quite understand the nature of what desserts are there. So while it's not really true that the Japanese eat "no added sugar", it's still largely true in many ways, especially when you compare it to the west.

Oh, and if you're up for a beautiful drink, don't go for "dwarf sugar cane" drinks. They suck. Just go for plain old normal sugar cane drinks. They're WONDERFUL~! :D

Whenever I get over to SE Asia, I drink my face off with fresh fruit drinks and smoothies. You just can't beat them. (Though, if you order lime/lemon juice, make sure to tell them not to add too much sugar, as they do add it to that.)

But, I will be keeping that tab open in my browser and reading more over the next few days. It's not a single sitting read... (Just skimming a lot of it and stopping to read here and there -- it's LOOOOOONNNNNGGGG...)
 
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tomos

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Re: How much soda (pop) do you drink?
« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2012, 07:54:44 AM »
It's nice to see it get trashed out a bit - although it can get a bit sidetracked (like the Japan-sugar-in-diet thing, which I felt really wasnt of much importance beyond calling Lustig to task for generalising inaccurately).

Yeah, I bailed out too on the comments ;-) or I skimmed a lot, especially looking for responses to an interesting comment.
Tom

tomos

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Re: How much soda (pop) do you drink?
« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2012, 03:46:53 PM »
On the obesity front, I believe antibiotics and growth hormones are still almost universally used in animal farming in the States(?)
AFAIK antibiotics are restricted in the EU, and growth hormones are completely banned.

This article below speculates on antibiotics being a major cause of obesity.
Commenters suggest growth hormones, and of course the logical eat too much and dont exercise excuse...

"Could antibiotics be causing the obesity epidemic?"
http://www.smartplan...ic/13552?tag=nl.e660
Tom

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Re: How much soda (pop) do you drink?
« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2012, 04:09:59 PM »
I drink way too much soda. And never ever the diet stuff- I'll take my chances with the high fructose corn syrup rather than flirt with substitutes like Aspartame, which may be linked to neurological disorders. Total consumption works out to 1-2 liters a day depending on working conditions and ambient temperature. But I am very careful to sip it gradually through the day, as the steady supply of sugar dampens out fluctuations that cause mood swings. Again, I'd rather chance the corn syrup than deal with other chemicals whose effects are not as well known or introduce side effects.

But all that aside, if you plan your meals factoring in the energy from that sugar, the only thing you're really risking is the effects of sugar and insulin. Obesity can be avoided by reducing food intake to balance out the energy from the sugar, and as long as it is sipped instead of slammed you get a nice stable energy burn all day long without the rise and fall of the normal 3 meals a day causing noticeable changes in mood and energy level.

On the obesity front, I believe antibiotics and growth hormones are still almost universally used in animal farming in the States(?)

Nope. Here in New York we're allowed to use antibiotics, and some farms do use different growth hormones such as BST. But these products have a withholding period. After treating the animal with them, any food produced by them must be discarded for a set time period, be it something they produce while alive like milk, or the meat yielded by their slaughter.

There is also strict quality control for food entering the public market:

For instance, when the truck comes to collect the milk produced by a farm, a sample of the holding tank is taken and analyzed to check the quality of the product and ensure it is not contaminated. Any farmer that produces a "hot" tank which fails the quality checks must then pay for the entire truckload at their expense, and the entire truckload is thrown away.  

Small farms will often benefit from going organic though, which to maintain the status of means that only bare minimum vaccinations for the animals are allowed, all other veterinarian tasks must rely on natural methods and animals can only be fed using feedstock of organic origin, which is recommended to be grown on-site but can be trucked in from other certified sources.

"Could antibiotics be causing the obesity epidemic?"
http://www.smartplan...ic/13552?tag=nl.e660

Sounds like someone doesn't know what antibiotics are.

An antibiotic is a substance like Penicillin (which is widely used in agriculture as point of fact, I still have a vial of it in the refrigerator) that is able to neutralize bacteria. They are used in humans too for certain types of infections, although the original Penicillin is no longer used in humans due to widespread sensitivity to it and antibiotic resistance effects.

Growth hormones on the other hand could most definitely be bleeding through into humans, and almost certainly are affecting us. They use a shorter hold-down period than antibiotics, allowing for higher concentrations in the end products to reach the consumer. Effects include people being taller and heavier, but also less obvious ones such as internal organs having abnormal sizes or properties. There are some that are also known to alter one's physical appearance given sufficient exposure- which often is cumulative. I have heard that the hormone BST used on the dairy farm is known to bleed through to commercially available milk supplies.

tomos

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Re: How much soda (pop) do you drink?
« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2012, 03:00:19 AM »
"Could antibiotics be causing the obesity epidemic?"
http://www.smartplan...ic/13552?tag=nl.e660

Sounds like someone doesn't know what antibiotics are.

An antibiotic is a substance like Penicillin (which is widely used in agriculture as point of fact, I still have a vial of it in the refrigerator) that is able to neutralize bacteria. They are used in humans too for certain types of infections, although the original Penicillin is no longer used in humans due to widespread sensitivity to it and antibiotic resistance effects.

It's clear what antibiotics are - the article is talking about side-effects of taking them long term and early in life. I presume that if animals are regularly given antibiotics -and you eat that meat every day- that you will be getting a regular low dose. So, it seems reasonable to worry about side-effects (and while obesity is obviously a problem, I think there are a lot of other possible problems - as you also point out with growth hormones).
Tom

jadinolf

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Re: How much soda (pop) do you drink?
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2012, 08:48:11 AM »
None here since 2009.

Don't miss it.

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Renegade

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Re: How much soda (pop) do you drink?
« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2012, 09:22:55 AM »
None here since 2009.

Don't miss it.

WOW~! That's a LONG time!

I'm now drinking maybe 1 a month max. Heck, I've even stopped drinking coke or ginger ale with my bourbon. (Water & bourbon instead.)

I remember a number of years ago when I stopped entirely, but every now and then I'd have some pop, and I'd feel like crap. It just made me feel icky and sick inside. A weird, sticky-buzzy kind of ickyness. Not sure how to describe it - not good.

However, on my TODO list is to start making homemade, healthy soda. Yes... It is possible... You can have healthy soda -- if you make it yourself. (Search for something like this: https://duckduckgo.c...lacto-fermented+soda )
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SeraphimLabs

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Re: How much soda (pop) do you drink?
« Reply #44 on: August 28, 2012, 12:46:35 PM »
It's clear what antibiotics are - the article is talking about side-effects of taking them long term and early in life. I presume that if animals are regularly given antibiotics -and you eat that meat every day- that you will be getting a regular low dose. So, it seems reasonable to worry about side-effects (and while obesity is obviously a problem, I think there are a lot of other possible problems - as you also point out with growth hormones).

But that's not how they are used. Antibiotics should only be given when there is some type of bacterial infection, such as an abscess or confirmed illness. They are not by any means used on a regular basis, all that does is encourages antibiotic resistance due to residues. Not only that, but I already mentioned the restrictions- how animals treated with such cannot be used for food until a set time period depending on the product expires so as to allow it to do it's job and be broken down by their body. Although even that holding duration still leaves some residue in the products, it's below state and federal guidelines for contamination.

However supplements and growth hormones don't usually have such restrictions, and are intended for regular dosage to get the required effects. Those most certainly do bleed through to the grocery store shelf, where they will have a largely-undocumented impact on the human body.

tomos

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Re: How much soda (pop) do you drink?
« Reply #45 on: August 28, 2012, 02:54:58 PM »
^ understand your point now, thanks.
(I had thought that they were given almost on a drip basis in the US)
Tom

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Re: How much soda (pop) do you drink?
« Reply #46 on: August 28, 2012, 03:00:48 PM »
However, on my TODO list is to start making homemade, healthy soda

that reminded me of a video mouser posted a couple of years ago:

Tom

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Re: How much soda (pop) do you drink?
« Reply #47 on: September 01, 2012, 07:42:53 PM »
That video was interesting. A world of products I had no clue existed. :)

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Re: How much soda (pop) do you drink?
« Reply #48 on: September 03, 2012, 06:47:31 PM »
This video actually gives you REAL science to back up claims, and not just some namby-pamby soft claims and BS like you usually get. (Very refreshing!)

Quote
I recommend watching that video very highly. I cannot stress enough just how insightful it is, and how good the information is. Most often you get some wishy-washy BS with no hard science and no real information. This guy is hard core and doesn't dumb things down. He has actual information and explains it intelligently. That being said, put your thinking cap on as it will challenge you unless you are well educated in biochemistry.

Thanks for the video.  The book the guy mentioned by John Yudkin:

  Pure, White and Deadly

Sounds quite interesting too -- but out of print...



According to:

  http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36157-6.html#53

The book may be back in print around 2012-11.



The following site was brought up in the video:

  SweetSurprise.com - The Facts about High Fructose Corn Syrup



Also came across this bit on Linus Pauling and John Yudkin:

  http://paulingblog.wordpress.com/2012/01/19/john-yudkin-linus-pauling-and-the-sugar-question/
« Last Edit: September 04, 2012, 02:50:15 AM by ewemoa »

IainB

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Re: How much soda (pop) do you drink?
« Reply #49 on: September 03, 2012, 09:07:07 PM »
I recommend watching that video very highly.
So, I took my laptop up to the roof of a 9-storey apartment block and watched it there...