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Author Topic: Tipping - Why does this appear to be a "requirement"?  (Read 11036 times)
Stoic Joker
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« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2010, 11:35:07 AM »

I definitely think removing tipping as an incentive with all of the crap they have to put up with would make for worse service.  It does need to be there as an incentive to do better (and a reward for those that do)- humans don't perform their best without such incentives in customer service- it's a proven fact.  However, when you can give perfect service and get zero for tip, that does indicate the something is broken...
Quite true, and if it happened frequently enough over an extended period of time - One might just be inclined to muster up enough audacity to grumble about it aloud...
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wraith808
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« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2010, 12:29:38 PM »

That's just it. You do not need to remove it, but you do need to remove the need for tips to be looked at as a primary portion of the income. Instead, raise pay to minimum wage rates, and then have tips serve as an EXTRA incentive for good service.

This will necessitate and increase in the prices for such goods that the services support (i.e. your $30 steak becomes a $45 steak... or even more).  Would the public go for such a drastic inflation?  And I think that I underestimate the price of the increase to cover such increases in salary...
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Stoic Joker
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« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2010, 12:56:29 PM »

Would the public go for such a drastic inflation?  And I think that I underestimate the price of the increase to cover such increases in salary...
As an example: Barmaids here are typically paid $20 for a shift - which can run up to 10hrs due to after hours cleanup activities - the rest of their "wage" is tips. ...I'd hate to think what a beer would cost if they were getting paid a flat/straight wage.  Cry
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Renegade
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« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2010, 12:10:11 PM »

It will never improve. It's an entirely hopeless industry and cause.

People must eat. Period. We are lazy. We will eat out. We will eat when the servers spit in our faces and **** on our plates. The worst service in the world will not stop us from being lazy. Cooking at home is work. There is no incentive beyond tips.

To
Insure
Prompt(ness)
Service

Pffft~!

Serving (at many places) requires almost no skill beyond the ability to breathe in order to get into the industry at some point. There will always be a workforce for the industry.

Large workforce = low wages.

Higher wages won't help either though.

Here in Australia servers have much higher wages and the service is crap. Complete garbage. I have not been to a restaurant yet with decent service here. Not one.

Hopeless. Completely hopeless.

Sigh...
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Renegade
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« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2010, 12:13:39 PM »

Would the public go for such a drastic inflation?  And I think that I underestimate the price of the increase to cover such increases in salary...
As an example: Barmaids here are typically paid $20 for a shift - which can run up to 10hrs due to after hours cleanup activities - the rest of their "wage" is tips. ...I'd hate to think what a beer would cost if they were getting paid a flat/straight wage.  Cry

In Florida? $20? That's beyond insane.

As for the price of a beer... It won't change too much. People just won't pay, and that will keep it down.

At $15 or MORE for a drink at some restaurants here, I simply don't drink. I have to drive anyways though...
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deefrawley
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« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2010, 10:00:25 PM »

Renegade, if everytime you go out you are getting bad service and paying $15 a drink then you are clearly going to the wrong places.

Also being from Australia, I find the idea of mandatory tipping strange. I'll often round up so I don't get a pocket full of change but that is out of convenience and at my discretion. Feeling an obligation to supplement someone else's wage would make me feel uncomfortable.
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J-Mac
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« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2010, 10:36:06 PM »

As Joe Cabot said to Mr. Pink regarding tipping the waitress...

Quote
"Shut up. What do you mean, you don't believe in it? Cough up a buck, you cheap bastard."

Jim
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« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2010, 10:40:00 PM »

I tip anyone and everyone who serves me food. Bar none.

Yes, I tip at McDonald's, I tip at food stands, I tip at all take-out counters. Get over it and stop acting like a buch of cheap bastards!!

BTW, the quote in my last post was from the very memorable diner/tipping scene in "Reservoir Dogs".  Thmbsup

Jim
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Josh
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« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2010, 06:42:25 AM »

Jim,

It has NOTHING to do with being cheap. It has to do with this becoming a requirement and expected at almost any place I visit. Why should I be forced to supplement someones income because the establishment refuses to pay them even minimum wage? Why should I tip someone who is rude to me when I am paying their employer for them not to be? You can tip all you want, that's fine. I tip when I deem it appropriate. I will not tip at a fast food restaurant. I will not tip you for a 30 second encounter in which you prepare and hand me an ice cream cone. That is why I am paying for your product. I am not paying for it just to turn around and pay you again for the same service.

However, I will not tip if I feel that the service does not merit it. I will also ask for a refund of any tips deemed mandatory. If I go to a restaurant and they tell me that gratuity is automatically included, I ask for it back immediately. How do I know the tip is going to the employee who served me?

Sorry, but tipping has gotten out of control and for restaurants to make that more then 50% of someone's salary is wrong. The restaurant chains need to change and pay their employees decently.
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Strength in Knowledge
Stoic Joker
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« Reply #34 on: September 16, 2010, 06:52:37 AM »

In Florida? $20? That's beyond insane.

As for the price of a beer... It won't change too much. People just won't pay, and that will keep it down.
Most folks tip the barmaids/tenders well here - It's kind of an understood mandate - and it quickly reflects on the level/quality of service...

The good old dive bar beer joint (my favorite kind) is a dieing (dead actually) breed due to the insane amount of taxes placed on alcholic beverages (which is why I went bankrupt in one). The margin is so tight that if wages were "normalized" draft beer would easily hit $10 a glass (they're a buck or two now).
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justice
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« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2010, 07:29:29 AM »

As a European perhaps someone can enlighten me what the word minimum means in the term minimum wage if an establishment is allowed to pay less than that? Perhaps, take away the tips and make the portions smaller accordingly?
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cmpm
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« Reply #36 on: September 16, 2010, 07:54:55 AM »

Some info to figure out.

This is US government, so it's a CF.

http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/america.htm

http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/wages/minimumwage.htm

http://www.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

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wraith808
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« Reply #37 on: September 16, 2010, 08:13:56 AM »

Sorry, but tipping has gotten out of control and for restaurants to make that more then 50% of someone's salary is wrong. The restaurant chains need to change and pay their employees decently.

And again, are we as American's prepared for the other side of that, i.e. the increase in what we're actually purchasing?  And the decrease in service quality?
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justice
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« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2010, 08:17:08 AM »

why would you serve worse if you get more basic pay? Less worries and it's not people will stop tipping.
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« Reply #39 on: September 16, 2010, 08:21:29 AM »

I am ready for it. Bring it on if it means better pay for the people serving me. I will pay for service at a restaurant. The point of a restaurant is a place to go out to eat and have a good meal without having to work for it. It is a premium. Going out to eat SHOULD NOT BE an every day thing. It should be used for a celebration, a date night for a long time married or dating couple, or some other special occasion. That is the only time, minus chinese food or pizza, that my family and I go out to eat. I am willing to pay the premium for it if it means I get service worth paying for.
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« Reply #40 on: September 16, 2010, 11:28:41 AM »

If its bad service from the server just leave em 9 cents a nickel and 4 pennies...they should get the hint. (Not worth a dime.)

It has to be a nickel and 4 pennies though so they should know you left it like that on purpose.
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wraith808
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« Reply #41 on: September 16, 2010, 11:49:53 AM »

why would you serve worse if you get more basic pay? Less worries and it's not people will stop tipping.

Did you not see the above commentary on service in Europe?  It's human nature... if you don't have to work harder to get the extra money, then the average quality of service will decrease.
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« Reply #42 on: September 16, 2010, 12:32:29 PM »

personally i'd much rather pay higher prices and have a waiter who isn't trying to be fake nice hoping to get a good tip, and just being like a normal person on a job.  i very much dislike the fake game of trying to kiss the ass of the customers hoping they will give you a good tip.

if we follow the logic of tipping to it's natural conclusion, we'd be tipping everyone -- cops, airplane pilots, bus drivers, etc.  i don't think that's a good idea.
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superboyac
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« Reply #43 on: September 16, 2010, 12:52:03 PM »

personally i'd much rather pay higher prices and have a waiter who isn't trying to be fake nice hoping to get a good tip, and just being like a normal person on a job.  i very much dislike the fake game of trying to kiss the ass of the customers hoping they will give you a good tip.

if we follow the logic of tipping to it's natural conclusion, we'd be tipping everyone -- cops, airplane pilots, bus drivers, etc.  i don't think that's a good idea.
+1
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« Reply #44 on: September 16, 2010, 02:47:36 PM »

personally i'd much rather pay higher prices and have a waiter who isn't trying to be fake nice hoping to get a good tip, and just being like a normal person on a job.  i very much dislike the fake game of trying to kiss the ass of the customers hoping they will give you a good tip.

if we follow the logic of tipping to it's natural conclusion, we'd be tipping everyone -- cops, airplane pilots, bus drivers, etc.  i don't think that's a good idea.
If a cop would take the time to just wing me as opposed to taking a center mass shot I would think that would be worth some kind of gratuity.
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wraith808
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« Reply #45 on: September 16, 2010, 02:59:58 PM »

personally i'd much rather pay higher prices and have a waiter who isn't trying to be fake nice hoping to get a good tip, and just being like a normal person on a job.  i very much dislike the fake game of trying to kiss the ass of the customers hoping they will give you a good tip.

if we follow the logic of tipping to it's natural conclusion, we'd be tipping everyone -- cops, airplane pilots, bus drivers, etc.  i don't think that's a good idea.
If a cop would take the time to just wing me as opposed to taking a center mass shot I would think that would be worth some kind of gratuity.

Hilarious!
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mouser
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« Reply #46 on: September 16, 2010, 03:49:03 PM »

Quote
If a cop would take the time to just wing me as opposed to taking a center mass shot I would think that would be worth some kind of gratuity.
Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Renegade
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« Reply #47 on: September 16, 2010, 03:56:12 PM »

if we follow the logic of tipping to it's natural conclusion, we'd be tipping everyone -- cops, airplane pilots, bus drivers, etc.  i don't think that's a good idea.

Actually, in a lot of places you DO tip the police. Bureaucrats. Politicians. Judges. Most people here would call it corruption. (I'm not trying to be a smart ass there.) But if you want to call a spade a bloody shovel, it's just another form of tipping that happens to be publicly unacceptable in a lot of places. (Errr... maybe I'm stretching a little bit, but not much. smiley )

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J-Mac
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« Reply #48 on: September 16, 2010, 08:56:07 PM »

Now tipping is comparable to bribing public officials and law enforcement? Oh man, even Mr. Pink didn't go there.

This thread gets better with each post! I almost expect Godwin's Law to come into play soon!   cheesy

Jim
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justice
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« Reply #49 on: September 17, 2010, 04:49:55 AM »

why would you serve worse if you get more basic pay? Less worries and it's not people will stop tipping.

Did you not see the above commentary on service in Europe?
Yes and I disagree with that statement, one waiter in london is not proof of london, a country or a continent. it's just an experience of a moment in time by one person in one day.
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