Main Area and Open Discussion > General Software Discussion
setup alternatives on blogger and wordpress
Steven Avery:
Hi Folks,
In this thread I really want here a little discussion of the basic alternatives on blogger and wordpress, both of which seem to have excellent blogging facilities. There are dozens of worthwhile alternatives, they may be mentioned, however it seems the prominence of the big two is justified by features, simplicity, etc. so they will be the primary focus for simple "get-up-and-running-and-share-away".
Earlier we were discussing setting up server environments on your PC, however it seems these two can be set up in 3 different ways.
1) running on the web, hosted by wordpress or blogger (www.yourname.wordpress.com www.yourname.blogger.com)
2) running on the web, hosted by your own url
3) running on your local (pseudo)-server, uploaded to your own url (or hosted on your pc as server)
Offhand I am not sure what the advantages to 3 might be .. unless there was some intensive stuff going on where a local connection is faster. Or, more simply (3) is simply for "set-up" then upload to your (2)? .. then continue from there with web management ? Rather than ask your web host to do the install ? Which simplicity will vary from host to host. I'm a little perplexed.
The simple fact of email posting to the blog, even pics and stuff (testing needed to see if inline .jpg will work on both, an important question), seems to tremendously simplify the actual blog posts. I played with the Wordpress editor and was not impressed, so Eudora, or an alternative if it words better, comes to play. Of course you have to go online for comment moderation, dashboard tweaking and stuff like that.
One major first question is simple .. in initial days, is there any disadvantage in starting with the wordpress or blogger link ? Are they special efforts or costs or difficulty when you later try to port the blog en toto over to your own domain ? Should you try from day one to have your domain as the host ? And, if you start with their hosting, should you first set up your host with a URL redirection to where you might think you go later, so that you have a permanent path ? I know there is a possibility of a fee when you transfer stuff out, like with forums, $50 or so would not be a big hurt, but I really wonder about all this.
Also I am thinking about the best way to handle the issue of unusual name or topic blogs, one account or multiple accounts. Clearly you could set up one account and have multiple blogger blogs (not sure about wordpress, presumably so). Another alternative seems to be to set up a gmail account [email protected] and the blog with the corresponding name ..e.g myunusualblog .. and then have gmail keep a copy of the mail and send one down to your home inbox too. This way you have nice coordinated control, blog by blog (I will likely end up with about 3, on related yet distinct Bible topics) .. where you sign in to the gmail accounts, one by one, and see the blog activity when not home, and simply filter properly at home. Make sense ?
Note: It would be nice if gmail had a url method to pass the user name and password, but that might be asking a bit. Then the url would go right into linkshelf.
However in my proposed method the gmail username wll be the blog name anyway, making it fairly simple even if the three blogs are distinct. The only significant loss is that a "blogger" looking at "your blogs", a nice feature, does not see them all together. Your thoughts ?
I'm not sure if all this is sensible, feel free to drift afield, and share away. I'll hopefully invite you to my new blog or two tomorrow, to compare and share.
(One glitch already, I set up a blogger account under the wrong name, deleted it hoping to set it up under the right name, freezing the name as unavailable, I am asking about that on blogger forum.)
Thanks.
Steven Avery
Queens, NY
app103:
I have a lot of Blogger blogs under a single account, and I am pretty experienced with it...enough to answer most of your questions about it.
Blogger only offers the option for them to host the blog for you on a blogspot.com subdomain, or you could point your own domain name at it. They do not offer the option to host it on your own server, any other web host, or locally on your pc.
Offhand I am not sure what the advantages to 3 might be .. unless there was some intensive stuff going on where a local connection is faster. Or, more simply (3) is simply for "set-up" then upload to your (2)? .. then continue from there with web management ? Rather than ask your web host to do the install ? Which simplicity will vary from host to host. I'm a little perplexed.
--- End quote ---
The advantage to that is when you are creating, tweaking, or testing templates and plugins, you are not working on a live site, so there is no risk of trashing your site by accident.
The simple fact of email posting to the blog, even pics and stuff (testing needed to see if inline .jpg will work on both, an important question), seems to tremendously simplify the actual blog posts. I played with the Wordpress editor and was not impressed, so Eudora, or an alternative if it words better, comes to play.
--- End quote ---
Try Windows Live Writer...it's wonderful and can handle multiple blogs and many blogging platforms.
Of course you have to go online for comment moderation, dashboard tweaking and stuff like that.
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Or you can use Disqus and moderate comments by email, like I do. You can mark as spam, delete, or reply to them. It works on both Wordpress and Blogger.
One major first question is simple .. in initial days, is there any disadvantage in starting with the wordpress or blogger link ? Are they special efforts or costs or difficulty when you later try to port the blog en toto over to your own domain ? Should you try from day one to have your domain as the host ? And, if you start with their hosting, should you first set up your host with a URL redirection to where you might think you go later, so that you have a permanent path ? I know there is a possibility of a fee when you transfer stuff out, like with forums, $50 or so would not be a big hurt, but I really wonder about all this.
--- End quote ---
The best way to do it is to start with their hosting and your own domain name. That way you won't be starting from scratch when you move. Neither of the services have URL redirection for when you move. The only thing you can do if you decide to move to your own host and you haven't been using your own domain name all along, is put up a last post with the new URL to tell your visitors were to go.
As far as exporting your content for moving, Blogger has this, and Wordpress can import it. And it doesn't cost anything to export your blog. (it's something you should do on a regular basis any way, just for backup purposes)
Also I am thinking about the best way to handle the issue of unusual name or topic blogs, one account or multiple accounts.
--- End quote ---
I keep all my Blogger blogs under a single account. I rarely ever have to log into my Blogger account. I don't log in to post since I use Windows Live Writer and I don't have to log in to moderate comments because I use Disqus.
(One glitch already, I set up a blogger account under the wrong name, deleted it hoping to set it up under the right name, freezing the name as unavailable, I am asking about that on blogger forum.)
--- End quote ---
They don't release the deleted blog names right away. Sometimes it takes months after a deletion before they release them. Posting on their forum will not help. It's all automated.
Now, for some more info...
If you want more control over what you can do with your blog but still have the free hosting, Blogger is the better option when compared to wordpress.com, for the simple reason that wordpress.com doesn't allow you to use unapproved plugins and they don't allow the use of javascript. This will be important to you the day you want to add some sort of ads, widgets, or other custom stuff.
Blogger also has feeds for each tag built in, so you can easily do cool stuff like this. The recent posts on my sidebar is also powered by those individual feeds.
Blogger just added built in analytics, comment spam detection (useful if you don't use Disqus), and static pages. If you want a contact form, you can create one in Google Docs and have it send you an email alert whenever anyone uses it. It's very easy to insert the code they give you into a static page on Blogger, but wordpress.com won't allow you to use it on their site. (this is the one I made for my dad)
briancoto9:
Steven,
I would suggest using a program installed on the computer to do the posting. Email posting is a good option, but using a program will let you post to several blogs from one interface, attach posts to categories that are on the blog you are posting on at the moment, etc.
I am using BlogDesk, shareware for the Windows pc. It supports Wordpress, Movable Type, Drupal, Serendipity, and several more (no blogger though). I know there is one that is even better for the Mac, but cannot recall it just now.
Check it out. :Thmbsup:
Brian
Steven Avery:
Hi Folks,
A quick thanks for the great help. This weekend I plan on doing some test work (e.g. emailing .jpg is a big issue to see, or using the editor recommended) on both environments, more a bit later. It does seem that a good blog can be the central point for other aspects (special web pages, forums, mild discussion, etc) with less muss and fuss.
Exactly the type of feedback needed. More laters :).
Here are my two test-only blogs .. In blogger the Eudora pic did not take directly, I added it by hand by Abbyy-->file and then Blogger upload.
http://heavenlywitnessestest.wordpress.com/
http://purebibletest.blogspot.com/
So far I have been testing Eudora and Windows Live Writer. I can see that WLW has a major advantage in pic-to-blog .. one that alone is enough to make it the standard.
Big surprise .. Wordpress took the Eudora inline .jpg pic perfectly ! .. hmmmm .. and a nice large size ... but .. wait .. the color and maybe font size was lost so far.
The decision between WLW and Eudora now leans strongly to WLW. Oh, it looks like WLW also has an "Image Size" option, that can avoid the later adjustment.
Next .. compare BlogDesk (no Blogger though) and anything else interesting to WLW. I see that WLW surprises a lot of folks for the quality of the MS app so it is clearly acceptable from the get-go. A bit shocked ! shocked ! to actually maybe like a specialty MS app.
Wait .. more important now ... email control of commenting .. Disqus .> I tried to install on blogger . it shows up in the Page Elements but not on the page. Hmmm.. Comments are enabled properly. So testing this out is the next project .. after that I can probably post immediately .. haven't tried Wordpress-Disqus yet .. also have not decided on the redirection issue (that can wait a few days anyway).
Ok.. Disqus works fine Blogger.
Disqus install on WordPress says it is for "WordPress (self-hosted)" and I do not see PlugIns on the Dashboard site. So for Disqus on WordPress I think .. ? .. it only applies after the hosting is switched.
Apparently there are three main players in email control, and other comment enhancements, of WordPress comment:
a) WordPress plug-ins
b) Disqus
c) Intense Debate
With Disqus holding a "cutting edge" edge over ID .. especially in interface and stuff that does not matter to me like social networking .. while ID has a slightly closer integration with WP (owned by the same company maybe ?).
. I can see how in a mixed environment of blogs of more than one type (WordPress and Blogger) Disqus has an immediate advantage. So do I try to switch away to self-hosting WordPress quicker ? .. or wait .. (not looking for complicated comment threads in the beginning anyway). And do I understand this properly.
Now I number of people consider external comment systems:
"a solution in search of a problem"
.. that for many environments the built-in systems work just fine, thank you.
http://www.wptavern.com/forum/plugins-hacks/841-disqus-intense-debate.html
Since I have easy, quick access to the net pretty much wherever I am, I may go the internal comment route, initially, and then maybe only switch on Blogger, where the variables are less (ie. you are on their platform anyway, so you do not think of the problem of moving the lock with the stock and barrel) and because WordPress is strong on native plugins anyway.
One possible conclusion .. if your blogs are going to be 1, 2, 3 .. and comments is auxiliary (e.g. you direct intense discussion to a web discussion forum) these external comment forums may be overkill .. they may shine more on a real multi-blog setup .. to avoid a lot of ins and outs between blogs, one-point control.
So far the score is :
Wordpress and Blogger - a bit of both .. Wordpress looking more neato hefty for certain long-term usage, Blogger looks like fun, both are very nice and the way to tell more is to use one from Column A and one from Column B.
Windows Live Writer
leader of the pack (e.g blogdesk did not handle pics internally, a major aspect for me, as simply)
Commenting
Wordpress .. native system plus plug-in, if available on WP host, or later when self-host if not available now
Blogger - Disqus a possibility, close call, probably start clean for the first weeks using standard Blogger
Shalom,
Steven
Steven Avery:
Hi Folks,
Here are a few things I have noticed on the Blogger - Windows Live Writer combo.
Some of this I can probably try the WLW forums, perhaps these two.
http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en/writergeneral/threads
http://www.windowslivehelp.com/forums.aspx?productid=9
And the blogger forums, however the blogger help forum looks only so-so.
http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/blogger?hl=en&utm_source=HC&utm_medium=leftnav&utm_campaign=blogger
And blogger tricks is a bit specialty but seems pretty helpful.
http://forum.bloggertricks.com/
1) The default of WLW seems to double-space on a carriage-return. I can get around this by combining Eudora and WLW, is there a direct method ? I did just find in Blogger Setting->Formatting "Convert Line Breaks", perhaps changing from Yes to No is worth a try, however the concern looks to be in WLW, not Blogger.
2) Similarly, I do not see a WLW toolbar item for "remove formatting" .. again I can work that through Eudora, but if it is doable directly ?
3) Sizing the image properly in WLW seems to require some caution. I did not find the "Image Size" setting that I read about, referenced above... yet that might be "Default Picture Size" .. presumably you set that up so that the default is a nice width without going over onto the "right bar" with names of posts and such. ie. whatever makes sense for your current template. And then this could need tweaking if you have a lot of pics and then change the template ? (My next post will have a pic, using Abbyy Screenreader, not super-sharp but sufficient.) I noticed that there is a setting->formatting called "Enable float alignment" (Default = Yes) that may be relevant to try.
===========================================
And, importantly, it looks like Blogger immediately loses a lot of the spacing (e.g. blank lines that create a paragraph effect) the moment you go into Blogger to do editing of a post that was created in WLW. The workaround is to delete and republish, or to add spacing in various ways, neither of which is elegant. Am I missing something ? Perhaps Quick Editing does not lose ? This was surprising.
And I think I would like to try the initial blog posts, month-by-month, to be top-down rather than the more-common upside down most-recent-first within blogs. Is this sensible ? I think I saw that in Wordpress but perhaps it is not available in Blogger ?
=======================================
And I started live today with:
Pure Bible blog - http://purebible.blogspot.com/
while still maintaining the test forum.
And I am also considering the blogger template situation, suggestions welcome.
Shalom,
Steven
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