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The Fallacy of One Thing Leading to Another

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Renegade:
Wow. That someone would take the time to write a game to run a concentration camp... Stunning...

But I don't really see all that much difference between playing a rape/murder game and watching the 6 o'clock news; it's full of it, and it's only entertainment. Either way, it's using rape/murder/disaster as entertainment. One is fake/digital, and the other is real. So which is sicker?

JavaJones:
There's a definite difference from observing a situation and being *in control* of it. Watching the news, you may get a little "thrill", a heightened emotional state, from hearing about rape or murder due to the strong consequences and meaning in society. But you don't have any choice to make it happen or stop it from happening, so it's a pretty passive experience. You can choose to watch the news or not, but the rape/murder/whatever happened whether you watch or not.

It's different with a game that you actively control and in which you can influence the outcome. Choosing to rape or kill someone, and especially doing so in a context where there is no normally acceptable moral justification (e.g. if you're in a war, killing someone is "ok"), requires you to either disconnect from, or fundamentally alter your "moral compass". At the very least, you're making a conscious decision to make something happen that you know is hurtful and has significant consequences, at least in the game world. It's much different from just hearing about or observing something similar happening. Granted that it's all "imaginary", but it is simulation of real-life events, actions, and in many cases consequences, so it's hard to argue that there's no relationship at all.

That being said I am not someone who believes that games *cause* violent behavior in otherwise normal people. The fact that games aren't real and allow you to do these things *without* real-life consequences is important, and "play" is a key part of our development and life overall through adulthood. "Violent" play has been a part of human life probably since there have been humans, and animals do it too. I don't think there's any clear-cut answer, but I do think it's important to consider the difference between observing something happening and actually causing it to happen, whether virtual or otherwise.

- Oshyan

Paul Keith:
it is simulation of real-life events, actions, and in many cases consequences, so it's hard to argue that there's no relationship at all.
--- End quote ---

This is false actually.

I mentioned this under the comments of that topic but most rape games or other simulations do not so much represent rape but more of a form of non-consent fantasy.

The same holds true for most violent videogames which is why the JFK simulator despite being less of a game and more of an attempted simulation through the eyes of the killer caused such a reaction.

The observation argument also holds no water as many simulations are merely "clicks" and then observe rather than real time actions and what few active control you have is silly and annoying and it involves rotating your mouse around a certain area. It's more like a future malware simulator if anything.

Another reason why the argument holds very little water is that even non-games like comics and videos of digital rape are perceived as negative/only for pathetic people or downright evil to view.

Finally in the macro aspect of it all, war games do not provide or produce any true moral justification of war otherwise developed countries would be very anti-war and informed of it's consequences. War games and other violent pseudo-realistic games are there to provide a more detached view of war - one closer to the movie Full Metal Jacket than say Platoon - with more realistic physics but not really more realistic morality.

Deozaan:
most rape games or other simulations do not so much represent rape but more of a form of non-consent fantasy.-Paul Keith (July 10, 2010, 04:22 PM)
--- End quote ---

Don't try to make it sound less like rape. Rape is rape.


Unless... maybe all those violent games or simulations do not so much represent killing people but more a form of non-consent assisted euthanasia.

tomos:
The big question really is how all sides can come to accept each other's terms.
-Paul Keith (July 09, 2010, 09:16 PM)
--- End quote ---

No Paul,
I dont have to accept anyone's 'terms' here. I simply say this stuff [rape game] is unacceptable.

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