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The Fallacy of One Thing Leading to Another

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Paul Keith:
Its funny because there is so much hypocrisy.

In Japan the rape rates are so low, obviously the erotic things they produce must help them cope, but they are deemed as 'disgusting.'

And also ever since VHS and porn came out rape rates have dropped about 70%.

YES rape is totally wrong but it's a video game. If you choose do it outside, then you are a sick person.
Just like how if you play GTA you are NOT guaranteed to go and shoot hookers and carjack. Those options are made by people, not forced. Video games do not have a gun to their head, saying do this and do that. So why is a common sexual fantasy like rape looked at as obscene? Cause it's not the 'right' thing and people tend to think one thing always leads to another.

But shooting heads off and blowing up limbs? That's all day.

The world today is hurt so easily by pixels.. I'm sorry, just venting!

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I had a longer comment underneath the topic but this one is much shorter and is much easier shareable although I have my doubts that it's much better at making the argument for the controversial side.





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tomos:
There is surely lots of hypocrisy in this world.
But because 'shooting heads off and blowing up limbs' is "acceptable" doesnt mean that something else should be acceptable.

I'm maybe not a good guage of this - I'm no gamer. But, when I was growing up horror films were hugely popular. There's something there, some reason people want (need?) them. I'm not sure why. With the erotic stuff I reckon it's more straight forward:-
most societies distort and/or supress [ I dont even know what to call it - sexuality; the 'natural' course of events - whatever that is: most of us dont seem to know any more. I'm 46 yrs old and feel like I'm only starting to figure it out - YMWV ]. In fact I wouldnt be suprised if that's where the love of violence is coming from too..

So, while I think banning the symptoms of a problem are not a real solution, I think apologising for them is no solution either [edit] - although maybe no harm to get people thinking [/edit]

iphigenie:
1. People are not addicted to violence, they are addicted to strong emotions - and horror and violence are the easiest way to achieve strong emotions within visual media, so they are the most common.
2. Most games which depict criminal behaviour as entertaining and cool have been criticised, it is only the war violence that gets almost no criticism.
3. Rape is different because it is more common, and so often excused away. It's a crime that is already too common and glamorous to be encouraged or made sexy in any way

We have a rape culture, where it is often excused, underreported, underpunished and often blamed on the victim. This does not happen with other kinds of crime and violence.

You probably interact on a daily basis with women to which it has happened, and who might never have reported it, or have. Either way, they know to hide it because, after all, society has decreed that rape is not the fault of the rapist but of the victim.

In that context making a game out of it *is* a problem. It contributes to the rape culture around.

And I am totally clear that a game is not likely to make someone buy a gun and blow someone up, it would take a lot more than that, but with rape, there's a lot less inhibition to overcome

We live in a legal system where there is a lot excusing rape (in part simply because it is controlled by men, and all men can imagine being accused of rape), a culture a implying men are entitled to sex, a lot even making rape a cool/powerful thing for a man to do in arts of culture, that I think the barrier to overcome to go from thought to action is much lower - and I am not so sure that in these cases the game cannot give that little bit of unihibition that will make a guy go from "hmm, she's a bit too drunk let's play it safe" to "hey, she's a bit drunk, get her another drink, lucky score!!!" - especially in a group

Honestly if I think about myself I would not want to be alone anywhere with someone who gets their kicks off from a game like this - and even if you are a man, think about your daughter, sister, friends - would you be comfortable letting them get a lift home one evening from someone you know likes playing this? or who has spent 6 months creating that game?

and also The point is “oh my god, this game is going to make rapists think that people are on their side.”  Which, of course, too many people actually are already, through their rape apologist jokes and excuses.  The premise of the game reinforces the idea of rape as okay and not a big deal.  It reinforces the idea that women exist for the sexual pleasure and abuse of men.  And the preview of the game Boing Boing, which does not include any actual rapes but only attempted rapes, also ends up reinforcing the dangerous and stereotypical idea of your “real” rape victim who always cries, calls out in distress and overall completely breaks down at actual violence or threats of it.
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So yes, partly there is a hypocrisy in our society that is more sensitive to sex than violence - but there is also a hypocrisy around rape that blames the victim far too often... and in that context, the game is just about every kind of wrong

Deozaan:
In Japan the rape rates are so low, obviously the erotic things they produce must help them cope, but they are deemed as 'disgusting.'-Paul Keith (July 07, 2010, 08:44 PM)
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Funny that you say there's a fallacy of saying one thing leads to another ("rape games lead to more rape!") while at the same time saying one thing leads to another ("rape games reduce rape!").

I just don't see the difference between a rape game and a game that would allow you to have sex with children. Just because there are pedophiles out there doesn't mean we should let them prey on digital children.

And yes I think there's a difference (not as much hypocrisy) with violent games because probably most people as kids play some kind of game (cops and robbers, cowboys and indians, etc.) where someone plays the good guys and some play the bad guys. The bad guys go around stealing and looting and killing and trying to get away and the good guys try to capture (or kill) the bad guys. So in violent games, usually there's a reason given to be so violent, though often the excuse is very flimsy. Reasons such as, "The gates of Hell have opened up and are spawning demons and you're the only one who can stop it!" or "You're a criminal and you can't get caught, no matter the cost!" Even if what you're doing in the video game is wrong (killing for no good reason) you can accept it because you're "playing the role" of the robber/indian/bad guy who is supposed to do those things and try to get away with it.

I guess what I'm saying is that there really isn't any situation in which rape or pedophilia is acceptable, but with violence we can all imagine instances and circumstances in which we could be sympathetic to killing another person. Almost every movie (and quite a few TV shows) that comes out these days gives us a reason to justify killing. Self defense, revenge, protecting/rescuing others, etc. But no one in their right mind should think there's a time and a place where pedophilia or rape are acceptable.

Paul Keith:
Funny that you say there's a fallacy of saying one thing leads to another ("rape games lead to more rape!") while at the same time saying one thing leads to another ("rape games reduce rape!").
--- End quote ---

Sorry if this wasn't made clear, the post is not mine.

I just don't see the difference between a rape game and a game that would allow you to have sex with children. Just because there are pedophiles out there doesn't mean we should let them prey on digital children.
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I'm not trying to argue for that person but yes, the underlined is one of the key problems.

The big question really is how all sides can come to accept each other's terms.

because probably most people as kids play some kind of game (cops and robbers, cowboys and indians, etc.)
--- End quote ---

...and yet it is exactly those games that often contribute to wars.

This is a bit too far fetch for many though. (For example after the rage of revenge came post 9/11 it is very easy to flip it off as being tricked by the president rather than letting our emotions override any attempt to research the possible cause of such terrorist acts)

...but this is the way with any wicked problem. I guess I'm just mentioning this here as no different from how I approached that thread - sometimes before we can properly address the words we need to start addressing how we make excuses for one similar item and how we brand another similar item as evil and another as good.

Yet it's not possible. That would have to mean we have to feel bad about playing violent games. We would have to admit that most self-defense in games is faulty, we would have to admit that most revenge in games is written like cops and robbers rather than true tragedies, we would have to admit we're not protecting others just being lured to give ourselves an excuse to go all-out mayhem on digital characters, we would have to admit that we're basically rescuing fake people and that if we truly want to rescue lots of people we can better off serve using this time to truly rescue people that are in third world countries, poverty sections of our cities, minorities under siege...I'm not saying we should do this because I myself am not doing many of these things. I'm just trying to point out the complications - and let us not forget, sex isn't really that much less controversial even today. We can on hand have a society that publicly make sex scandal videos profitable and accuse troubled celebrities of needing to go into porn and yet similarly as a public we can look scornfully at a person not wearing underwear that was captured on photo even if what was shown is just the a lewd low quality version of what people end up knowing when they grow up anyway. Truly it is a conundrum of how we argue which things lead to another and which other thing doesn't lead to another or leads less to another.

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