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Last post Author Topic: App Culture vs. Free Culture  (Read 11500 times)

Eóin

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Re: App Culture vs. Free Culture
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2010, 11:29:39 AM »
I don't really see any problems with App Stores as yet another source of software.

If they were exclusive sources then yes, that'd be a big issue but that will never happen on the PC or the Mac. I'd even go so far as to suggest it will un-happen on the iPhone/Pad soon enough when the trade regulators in EU and possibly US do proper investigations.

Stoic Joker

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Re: App Culture vs. Free Culture
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2010, 12:19:06 PM »
This is one of those topics I try to stay out of, due to my tendency to reflexively attack any/everything Apple. However...

I would like to make note that I whole heartedly agree with Renegade, Mouser, & App103's last posts as they outline a clear and pragmatic picture of what is (and is about to) go horribly wrong if this "Business Model" starts to catch on.

mouser

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Re: App Culture vs. Free Culture
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2010, 02:06:30 PM »
Related article:
http://infoworld.com...rmine-developers-559

Screenshot - 7_9_2010 , 2_05_29 PM_thumb.png

Quote
Developers are rightly troubled by the often draconian-seeming policies at Apple's iPhone App Store. But according to analysts at Forrester Research, Apple's model represents more than just an overweening SDK license agreement. It's an entirely new relationship between software vendors and consumers, one that Forrester has dubbed "curated computing."

wraith808

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Re: App Culture vs. Free Culture
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2010, 02:34:49 PM »
Don't forget that despite not coding one line in your app, Apple willingly takes 30% of your profit off the top. That's effing greedy, folks!
As does Google if you sale in their market, and I believe Microsoft said their mobile store would be the same or similar.  Is 30% that bad when you consider it means you don't have to set up a store, actually handle credit card fees, or pay for the bandwidth? I'm seriously asking as it doesn't seem that bad to me.

I dislike Apple's policies and the corporate attitude they project, but I'm not sure I see this 70-30 split being so outrageous.


Now the fact that a developer interested in selling an iOS app to non-jailbreaking users has no other choice but to accept Apple's 70-30 deal is absolutely maddening.

Don't forget there are 2 other issues involved:

1. You can't try before you buy, so there is a risk involved with buying crap and not being able to get your money back.

The best companies provide a free 'trial' version or one supported by apps, and a paid version that either gives more features or removes the ads, so there is some leeway here, even if it's just the developers getting around the problem.

rxantos

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Re: App Culture vs. Free Culture
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2010, 12:01:37 PM »
The article forgot:

- The cheating factor. Apple restricts the use of some of its API only to  Apple. If your application uses those parts of their API, its not accepted. Unless you are google. :)


Capitalism only works where there is no party controlling the market. So concentrating too much decision power on a company that might also be your competitor is always a bad idea. Is like having the bad parts of Comunism (one party decides what goes on), without having any of the good parts.

BTW: Whats up with EVERY web site REQUIRING to register to post comments. I guess that freedom of speech is not a popular this days. (without the option of anonimity without need to lie, freedom of speech cannot exist).

zridling

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Re: App Culture vs. Free Culture
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2010, 06:11:06 PM »
The article forgot: The cheating factor. Apple restricts the use of some of its API only to  Apple. If your application uses those parts of their API, its not accepted. Unless you are google. :)

This is why Android (Linux) will dominate the mobile market in a couple of years, now that Apple is increasingly looking like a very ugly company that's easy to hate, oh, and that Apple's iPhone design flaws have been independently confirmed.

android_logo_sm.jpg

Users can even build their own mobile apps, however crude or simple. How fun is scripting for most of us? Dumb that down and you've got an even more powerful toy (er, tool) in your hand.

Capitalism only works where there is no party controlling the market. So concentrating too much decision power on a company that might also be your competitor is always a bad idea. Is like having the bad parts of Comunism (one party decides what goes on), without having any of the good parts.

Unless it's a form of "state capitalism," widely practiced around the world by China, India, Brazil, Russia, Saudi Arabia, et al., the goal of which is to keep a political party in control and ensure that its industries keep people working and make money for the state -- or in this case, to keep a corporation in strict control of its customers.

steeladept

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Re: App Culture vs. Free Culture
« Reply #31 on: July 13, 2010, 12:56:46 PM »
I want to clarify one little thing - In the case of APPLE'S app store, I agree whole-heartedly.  As a business model, though, I find nothing wrong with it or the way it charges.  What get's me is there IS a thriving app store (Cydia) competing with Apple that Apple is allowed to get away with locking out by locking down their iCrap to prevent access. Then people have to learn how to jailbreak it and then they no longer can get updates.  This is protectionism if I ever saw it, yet no one in the Justice department will follow-through on ANY of the allegations.  Meanwhile, throw a stick Microsoft or Google's way, and you get a thousand lawsuits stating they threw it >:(


hawk762

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Re: App Culture vs. Free Culture
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2010, 12:43:12 PM »
wow there are a lot of very wise and educated people here, and i think both side have made very valid points. as a lowly consumer who knows very little about how things work (software hardware, all i do is plug in and surf ) i can say i share the concern about big business pushing out the little guy, they do it so often in so many fields you would be crazy not to consider a sinister outcome. only if you squeeze them out than you cease to have the exorbitant cash flow necessary tell people about it! very few people will hunt down the info, most only acknowledge the products they've heard of, and wouldn't trust (thanks to many destructive hackers) a product being submitted by an individual, as getting a monetary judgement against a hacker who permanently damaged your system would be next to impossible!

1NR1

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Re: App Culture vs. Free Culture
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2010, 02:52:04 AM »
Well, I suppose I'll be chastised (flamed is it?) for this, yet my misspent youth and the anarchistic force in me insists I speak up. I'll make it brief: It's time to burn and loot.

the APP store pirates of the world have done a magnificent job of changing the thinking of a generation, and at the same time performed their public relations legerdemain of hiding the truth. If those who believe the internet, the WWW, the frequency spectrum, DOES NOT belong to corporations that simply declare their size dictates ownership, do not begin now to make a noise that reverberates for decades, kiss donation coding good bye.  Hasta la vista freeware.

Called for above is my philosophy of go big or go away...don't JUST burn...don't JUST loot. However with experience and age and a few wounded causes comes respect for reality. You still need to keep up a fight with many many short jabs and an occasional knockout punch.  Keep in mind the other side is trying the same thing.

You still need to go BIG, but from the inside. And that's my thesis.  I'll leave the specifics to you as to how to go about keeping the next generation of coders from selling out.

Renegade

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Re: App Culture vs. Free Culture
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2010, 04:22:12 PM »
Well, I suppose I'll be chastised (flamed is it?) for this, yet my misspent youth and the anarchistic force in me insists I speak up. I'll make it brief: It's time to burn and loot.

the APP store pirates of the world have done a magnificent job of changing the thinking of a generation, and at the same time performed their public relations legerdemain of hiding the truth. If those who believe the internet, the WWW, the frequency spectrum, DOES NOT belong to corporations that simply declare their size dictates ownership, do not begin now to make a noise that reverberates for decades, kiss donation coding good bye.  Hasta la vista freeware.

Called for above is my philosophy of go big or go away...don't JUST burn...don't JUST loot. However with experience and age and a few wounded causes comes respect for reality. You still need to keep up a fight with many many short jabs and an occasional knockout punch.  Keep in mind the other side is trying the same thing.

You still need to go BIG, but from the inside. And that's my thesis.  I'll leave the specifics to you as to how to go about keeping the next generation of coders from selling out.

Well, if you're looking for it, I might as well start. ;)

It'll never happen. The moment someone gives up a profitable market because of some principle, someone else without that principle will step in. Apple has a non-stop flow of enough content to their store that they don't need to worry. And they know it will never stop.

Basically, it's like people dropping money on the ground -- someone will pick it up.

Oh, in other news... Google is running to China for forgiveness... they want to do business there now... Sound familiar?
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

1NR1

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Re: App Culture vs. Free Culture
« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2010, 07:41:13 AM »
Thanks for the quick playback.  Well...If you are referring to selling out, you are probably right.    A shift in thinking has as much chance as a di-polar reversal before Tuesday. Either way I'll continue jamming for a counter revolution.  8)
NR
 

Renegade

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Re: App Culture vs. Free Culture
« Reply #36 on: July 31, 2010, 05:46:22 PM »
...Either way I'll continue jamming for a counter revolution.  8)

Sigh... Yeah... It's nice to dream... :( I'll cross my fingers, but I really don't expect much. Heck, I'd pick up free money, so I suppose that there's no way I could expect anything at all.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker