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Author Topic: This Mac devotee is moving to Linux  (Read 4693 times)

zridling

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This Mac devotee is moving to Linux
« on: June 21, 2010, 10:32:16 AM »
Dan Gillmore says enough is enough and he's checking out of Steve Jobs' pleasure prison:

I realize that I won't persuade the many people who prefer to live in gated communities, believing they can leave any time they wish. But switching costs will only get higher over time for those who choose to live in the Apple ecosystem.

mac-to-linux.jpg

That leaves, for practical purposes, Linux, which is freely available and not controlled by any one company. Linux is anything but a walled garden. It's almost nothing but choice, with all the good and bad that comes with it. Linux comes in all kinds of flavors. Volunteers around the world, who value freedom of choice and the ability to modify what they use, have created an ecosystem of their own -- software based on the concept that you, not Steve Jobs or Steve Ballmer, should have control over what you own.

Curt

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Re: This Mac devotee is moving to Linux
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2010, 11:56:51 AM »
Women don't care much about if an operating system is "free" or in a "walled garden", but if the system is easy to understand how to use. And this is exactly where Linux is failing BIG time. The very way a Linux works, proves beyond reasonable doubt that it is a system written by male geeks, for male geeks. Nowadays the authors are told Linux must be easier to operate, so some of the Linux software authors try adding userfriendly procedures, but so far only "some" & "try". There are still so many details under the surface where a request for help will result in an answer including geek talk impossible to understand for normal people (man or woman!).

My point is, that Linux never will be a major system until women easily can operate it.
- and this should give people like me a chance as well ;-)

40hz

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Re: This Mac devotee is moving to Linux
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2010, 12:18:47 PM »
^ My GF is a Mint user. Does that count?  8)

Carol Haynes

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Re: This Mac devotee is moving to Linux
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2010, 01:00:32 PM »
I would use Linux if ...

  • there was decent software for graphics and video (at least as function as Photoshop Elements and Sony Vegas
  • decent office software (not OpenOffice)
  • any sort of drivers that work with all-in-one network based printers from major players (and in particular Canon)
  • drivers that work with wifi (not just a small selection of esoteric hardware that you can't buy)

40hz

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Re: This Mac devotee is moving to Linux
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2010, 01:25:28 PM »
@Carol - I was pleasently surprised to find Ubu's 10.04 wifi handled anything I own including one oddball USB MIMO adapter which never worked with any other version of NIX I tried it with. 

"Plug&Pray" picked it up on installation. All I had to do was pick the SSID and enter the password. It even correctly identified the protocol and encryption type.

I'm used to ditzing around getting wifi to work. This time out, I needed no drivers or firmware hacks. I booted to my desktop and was politely informed that WAPs were in range to connect to. (I almost fainted!)

Give the live CD a try. You may find some joy with that yet.  :Thmbsup:

daddydave

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Re: This Mac devotee is moving to Linux
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2010, 01:39:03 PM »

I'm used to ditzing around getting wifi to work. This time out, I needed no drivers or firmware hacks. I booted to my desktop and was politely informed that WAPs were in range to connect to. (I almost fainted!)

Give the live CD a try. You may find some joy with that yet.  :Thmbsup:

Good to hear. And may I  assume WPA works out of the box, too?

Lack of wireless/WPA support for random wi-fi cards was always a barrier for me last few rounds with Linux. Although nowadays I use powerline networking, which appears as ethernet, so it wouldn't matter.
If bad things happen to other people, it's karma. If bad things happen to me, it's kismat!
« Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 01:49:15 PM by daddydave »

Jibz

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Re: This Mac devotee is moving to Linux
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2010, 01:57:44 PM »
  • there was decent software for graphics and video (at least as function as Photoshop Elements and Sony Vegas

I actually find myself using Gimp most of the time, even though I am running Windows and have both that and Photoshop Elements installed.

I like the more 'open' workspace and it can do the same photo fixing I used to do in PSE.

40hz

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Re: This Mac devotee is moving to Linux
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2010, 02:06:18 PM »
I  assume WPA works out of the box, too?

Did for me on an older Intel box using a Belkin Wireless G+ MIMO USB which has been sporadically fussy under Windows.

It connected to my low-security home router (which is using WPA-PSK) without a blip. The supplicant monitor reported the signal as 'excellent.' Under Windows it's usually only 'good' or 'very good.' Files seem to download a touch quicker under Ubuntu so I'm guessing what it's reporting is really a better signal. That or possibly better system efficiency (HD access, network overhead, etc.) overall.

Like I said, I almost fainted!  ;D

« Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 02:08:31 PM by 40hz »

Carol Haynes

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Re: This Mac devotee is moving to Linux
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2010, 02:19:17 PM »
Interesting to hear that WiFi is getting there.

GIMP - nah ... absolutely hate it ... it always feels as though someone has randomly spewed incomprehensible windows all over the screen and it isn't designed for print media (it was specifically designed for web images - and yes I know it can be used for more but ...). I know PhotoShop is complicated too but I do like Photoshop and have invested a lot of money in it over the years. Now if Adobe want to expand to Linux too ... (yes I know there is a gimp skin that makes it look a little bit like photoshop but the underlying software is not brilliant IMHO).

For me printer support is the biggest bugbear ... I know you can use standard 'generic' drivers to get something out but over years I have tried with various printers and have yet to find one that produces a decent printout from Linux. As for all-in-one printers you can forget it. I love my Canon printer and it is fantastic that I can stand in another room and scan an image directly to any computer on the network. I have yet to find any kind of scanner driver that works with any scanner on Linux - let alone a decent driver that takes advantage of all the features.

rjbull

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Re: This Mac devotee is moving to Linux
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2010, 02:57:12 PM »
I would use Linux if ...

But, would you, really?  You run a PC support business.  Isn't that a de facto Windows support business?

Quote
  • any sort of drivers that work with all-in-one network based printers from major players (and in particular Canon)

Which Canon MFPs do you like?

40hz

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Re: This Mac devotee is moving to Linux
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2010, 03:05:45 PM »
and it isn't designed for print media

Bingo. That's it's one downfall as far as I'm concerned. That and how different the interface is. I'm pretty comfortable with Photoshop although I'd hardly call it an intuitive program. The GIMPshop hack makes the GIMP a little less of a jolt to use since it emulates a good bit of the Photoshop look & feel, but it's still not completely identical.

Gimpshop_1.pngThis Mac devotee is moving to Linux

I know you can use standard 'generic' drivers to get something out but over years I have tried with various printers and have yet to find one that produces a decent printout from Linux.

I've found the drivers for the more popular HP Laserjets to be very good. Both the HP-PCL and the Postscript drivers produce very high quality results. (But maybe that's because HP is writing NIX drivers while companies like Canon aren't? Makes me wonder if there's some sort of "understanding" they have with Microsoft about that...)

Carol Haynes

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Re: This Mac devotee is moving to Linux
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2010, 03:28:58 PM »
I would use Linux if ...

But, would you, really?  You run a PC support business.  Isn't that a de facto Windows support business?

Mostly true but I do support Mac systems and very occasionally Linux raises its head.

I multiboot Windows XP, Vista and 7. If I could I would include MacOSX (but not to the point of spending a fortune on Apple hardware - though I have been tempeted by one of those boxes that looks like a white brick). If it was useful to do so I would also multiboot a Linux distro or two.

As for my own desktop I would have no particular problem using Linux if I could run the software I need but I don't really see the point of running Linux when I would need to install VMWare just to function.

Quote
Quote
  • any sort of drivers that work with all-in-one network based printers from major players (and in particular Canon)

Which Canon MFPs do you like?

I am using a Canon Pixma MX850 at the moment as my main printer network attached MFP and a Canon Pixma ip5000 as a subsidiary shared USB printer.

The reason I use canon printers is the quality of output. I used to use HP printers but don't think the quality is as good and also HP software stinks (99% of printer problems I encounter seem to be caused by HP software). Last time I used Epson was in dot matrix days - I haven't been hugely impressed with what I have seen since.

40hz

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Re: This Mac devotee is moving to Linux
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2010, 03:34:08 PM »
I would use Linux if ...

But, would you, really?  You run a PC support business.  Isn't that a de facto Windows support business?


I don't think that in itself would be an issue for most PC wonks..

I'm an MS Partner. I run a PC support business. (Which is de facto a 95% Windows/Windows Server business BTW.) But for 50% of what I do, I like Linux better.

And if I weren't supporting Windows as my business, I'd personally be running about 90% on Linux - and that's despite the fact I very much like Windows 7 and Server 2k3/2k8!

It's no knock on Microsoft. They sell a very capable OS. It's just that I much prefer the way a UNIX-like system works.

Maybe it's because UNIX was the first OS I learned well enough that I actually felt like I knew what I was doing. Or maybe it's because it's just so open-ended about how you can up and do things. Or maybe it's just so much more fun than either Windows or OSX.

So I think it all comes down to how open you are to something different; what you want/need to accomplish; and how much time you have to put into it in order to become proficient.

In fairness, most Linux users are like green belts in Taekwondo. They know enough to be dangerous - but nowhere near enough to be effective.

But that still doesn't stop them from praising and promoting Taekwondo every chance they get.  ;D



« Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 03:38:57 PM by 40hz »

Stoic Joker

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Re: This Mac devotee is moving to Linux
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2010, 03:41:32 PM »
If a printer uses a straight PCL driver, and it is either a direct IP or parallel connection (USB is its own kettel of pain) then any brand PCL driver will work. PCL is PCL, find something with the same basic (drawers & duplexing) layout and it'll most likely work just fine regardless of brand.

cranioscopical

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Re: This Mac devotee is moving to Linux
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2010, 03:52:29 PM »
I am using a Canon Pixma MX850
Not the point of this thread I know, but I've found this printer to be so good that I just had to add  :up: :up: :up:

zridling

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Re: This Mac devotee is moving to Linux
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2010, 06:32:12 PM »
The 1-2% user base of Linux (larger outside the US) is just not enough to attract a commercial graphics vendor. It got a text editor to come along in UltraEdit, but Carol speaks for many a Windows user in her fondness for and skill with Photoshop.

Women don't care much about if an operating system is "free" or in a "walled garden", but if the system is easy to understand how to use. And this is exactly where Linux is failing BIG time. My point is, that Linux never will be a major system until women easily can operate it.

Women, really? I'd say the youngest and the oldest among us. Curt, from installation to software management to disc burning and to security, it doesn't get much easier than today's KDE. If it were, I would have never bothered since I don't have the time I once had to futz with my system. If you combine the fact that more people than ever spend their online time among social and SaaS sites, the Apple user Dan Gillmore just doesn't want to be walled into buying Apple products in perpetuity.

The very way a Linux works, proves beyond reasonable doubt that it is a system written by male geeks, for male geeks.

Why yes, yes it was. Linus Torvalds, et al. I'm sure you know the story by now, and much of that legacy was embedded by Unix-think.

Nowadays the authors are told Linux must be easier to operate, so some of the Linux software authors try adding userfriendly procedures, but so far only "some" & "try". There are still so many details under the surface where a request for help will result in an answer including geek talk impossible to understand for normal people (man or woman!).

I'm curious, can you give an example? I presume you're talking about the BASH shell, where you might enter commands like this or this? If so, I haven't opened a shell window in a long time on my openSUSE system. I could, but like Windows, there's rarely a need for the common user under KDE.

Carol Haynes

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Re: This Mac devotee is moving to Linux
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2010, 06:35:16 PM »
I am using a Canon Pixma MX850
Not the point of this thread I know, but I've found this printer to be so good that I just had to add  :up: :up: :up:


LOL - I'll add another few  :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup:

Innuendo

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Re: This Mac devotee is moving to Linux
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2010, 08:55:47 PM »
My point is, that Linux never will be a major system until women easily can operate it.
- and this should give people like me a chance as well ;-)

But...but...Curt! I thought the deficiency of women not being able to operate it was solved with the release of Hannah Montana Linux!

hannah-montana-linux2[8].jpg

rgdot

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Re: This Mac devotee is moving to Linux
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2010, 07:46:01 AM »
^ That's it I am now using Linux  :P

The masses you are talking about has problems using Windows too. A geek will notice that the reason the print output is poor or not working is because of Ubuntu's lack of driver support, another person will almost certainly not. Despite mass adoption and all that stuff we are still not at a point where users can 'fully' play and work with Windows out of the box. I still get questions about where to plug in the USB, and not only from grandparents.

What I am getting at is the entry point to computers is still an open entry point. If a Linux loaded computer is sitting at a shop and the customer has some familiarity with (through marketing for example) it then it has a chance and the person wouldn't know the difference between 'no linux driver support' and 'windows BSOD' when something doesn't work


skwire

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Re: This Mac devotee is moving to Linux
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2010, 04:47:09 PM »
I am using a Canon Pixma MX850
Not the point of this thread I know, but I've found this printer to be so good that I just had to add  :up: :up: :up:

Agreed.  We have one, too, and love it.  It gets quite a workout during school months as my daughters get older.