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How to Sell Linux to Schools
zridling:
(allowing a tangent)
[Renegade]: Why would anyone want to learn software that once they get out in the real world, they'll never use again? OpenOffice is a good example. While it does have its foot in some poor markets, it's simply not used widely in the corporate world. Has anyone ever received a "Calc file" from anyone, or did you receive an "Excel file"? Actually, OpenOffice is done pretty well, and the skills you learn in it will translate into Microsoft Office pretty easily, so it's not really all that great of an example in that aspect.
--- End quote ---
It's neither the program nor the OS so much as its adherence to open document formats and open standards. If I have to buy your software (Excel) just to read your file, I will never do that. Why [do school boards] force taxpayers to fund a private corporation's products? Simply put, we're all broke out here. It's time to tell Microsoft to get its money from someone else, even if it's only $3.*
___________________________
*In full disclosure, I also don't want my tax dollars funding wars, AIG, GM, Dick Cheney's Secret Service Secret Service protection, and any number of things. But I realize that realpolitick doesn't offer me a choice.
PS: Oracle is doing a good job already of killing off OpenOffice.
Renegade:
(allowing a tangent)
[Renegade]: Why would anyone want to learn software that once they get out in the real world, they'll never use again? OpenOffice is a good example. While it does have its foot in some poor markets, it's simply not used widely in the corporate world. Has anyone ever received a "Calc file" from anyone, or did you receive an "Excel file"? Actually, OpenOffice is done pretty well, and the skills you learn in it will translate into Microsoft Office pretty easily, so it's not really all that great of an example in that aspect.
--- End quote ---
It's neither the program nor the OS so much as its adherence to open document formats and open standards. If I have to buy your software (Excel) just to read your file, I will never do that. Why [do school boards] force taxpayers to fund a private corporation's products? Simply put, we're all broke out here. It's time to tell Microsoft to get its money from someone else, even if it's only $3.*
___________________________
*In full disclosure, I also don't want my tax dollars funding wars, AIG, GM, Dick Cheney's Secret Service Secret Service protection, and any number of things. But I realize that realpolitick doesn't offer me a choice.
PS: Oracle is doing a good job already of killing off OpenOffice.
-zridling (June 03, 2010, 12:24 AM)
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While I think you have a very good point about open document formats, I have some good/bad news. The Microsoft document formats are all open and/or standards.
The Office Open XML specification has been standardised both by Ecma and, in a later edition, by ISO and IEC as an International Standard (ISO/IEC 29500).w
Microsoft file format specifications at MSDN
In order to publish a document, you must have some kind of a specification for the file format. That's just trivial.
But Microsoft's Open Office XML file format is no less open than the Open Document Format. Who here contributes to ODF? If you tried, would you get anywhere? Of course not. Whether the organization creating the specification claims to be OS or FOSS or commercial or whatever, the fact remains that they are closed to outsiders.
Just try walking into the FSF or whatever and telling them that since things are "open" and "free", you'd like to change the GPL wording. Not gonna happen. Just because something is "open" doesn't mean that everyone gets a say or gets input.
Now, you can get a job working for Microsoft or OpenOffice or whoever, and then you can have input into their file formats, but until then, there is no functional difference.
You're not *paying* to open Microsoft documents when you purchase Microsoft Office.
You're paying because everyone else that tries to open Microsoft documents just doesn't get it right and can't manage it properly.
You either get half-assed or you pay for MS products. That doesn't make MS formats any less open than their so-called "open source" alternatives. Nobody uses OpenOffice because they simply can't open or write other document formats properly, and that's just unacceptable in business. It's cheaper to pay for software that works than to fight with software that doesn't work. (OpenOffice support for other file formats may have improved significantly since I last used it, but it would have to be an incredible leap forward to even consider looking at again.)
Why [do school boards] force taxpayers to fund a private corporation's products?
--- End quote ---
But there's no way to get around paying for things. Should schools force student to wipe their butts with leaves or old newspapers because if they purchase toilet paper they're giving money to a corporation that works for profit? All the paper, pencils, cleaning materials, and everything else inside the schools come from companies that produce products for profit. Why should software be different? [[If there's a better free product (I don't think leaves or old newspapers are better), then sure. But there isn't a better product than Microsoft Office. It's simply the best, and it's the best by a very large margin. Nothing comes close.]]
By the same token, individuals work for money, so why should we pay teachers just to subsidize their extravagant indulgences in cup noodles? (Teachers are already underpaid.) They're working for profit. I'm sure there are pedophiles that would do the job for free. Ok, that is entirely silly to the point of insanity. The point is that we need to pay for things. There's no free lunch out there.
But you're absolutely right about funding wars. I sure as hell don't want to pay to kill people. Errr... That's not totally true. I'd pay to see a mass slaughter of politicians, bankers, and financiers! :P :D Something set in an arena on pay-per-view sounds good to me. :)
Same thing for incompetent companies. Why should we bail them out? I'd be perfectly happy to see AIG (or whoever) crash and burn, and let the cards fall where they may. (Though I am softer when it comes to companies like GM as they actually create wealth rather than simply manipulate it.)
I'm curious as to how Oracle is killing OpenOffice. I've not really been paying any attention there. Could you post back about it?
Renegade:
Kind of in the same line regarding lock-in and proprietary formats, check this out -- PST SDK for Outlook PST files. Brought to you for free under the Apache 2.0 license by Microsoft.
It makes me wonder what direction MS is going in as they are opening up everything now, while Apple and other companies are becoming MORE proprietary and closed. Will they shift their revenue model and open source Windows? That's a VERY long way away, if ever, but with the kinds of things they are doing, it looks possible.
Josh:
It's neither the program nor the OS so much as its adherence to open document formats and open standards. If I have to buy your software (Excel) just to read your file, I will never do that. Why [do school boards] force taxpayers to fund a private corporation's products? Simply put, we're all broke out here. It's time to tell Microsoft to get its money from someone else, even if it's only $3.*
-zridling (June 03, 2010, 12:24 AM)
--- End quote ---
Microsoft offers free readers for document formats. Their formats are well documented and opened by any number of programs and applications. School boards force taxpayers to pay for things that train their children in things used in the real world. Like it or not, openoffice and ODF are used by a very small minority. Training people on these products would result in a student that is not prepared for what is being used. I have yet to see a job offer that states "Experience with openoffice" or "Adherence to open document standards" as a job requirement. I do, however, see jobs that REQUIRE you know the software used by the company and a majority of it's subsidiaries, partners and clients. That is not only Microsoft Office, but other products that are "proprietary".
I realize you have a big thing for Open Standards and ODF, almost to the point of blindness on any other stance or viewpoint, however this does not change the reality that these standards and products are in the minority. This does not change the fact that many companies do not rely on these open products. As mentioned above, these products often give a sub-standard or incomplete feel. They are not the quality of software needed to train and educate the young workforce. Why spend thousands upon thousands of dollars training staff and teachers to learn a new product and the way it works? Most school courses do not require just basic document editing but actually delve into various features found in these other products. If these products were in the majority, or even the small minority (actually found in use in the business world), then I could see spending time and money in training on them. Point is, these products are not. I do not want my child being taught something she will never use or could cost her a job because she didn't know the competitors product.
40hz:
It makes me wonder what direction MS is going in as they are opening up everything now
-Renegade (June 03, 2010, 03:54 AM)
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Smokescreens and puppet theater is what it is. :P
The current "opening up" is just one more rework of an old Microsoft business strategy that's usually referred to as: Embrace - Extend - Extinguish.
And in support of open standards? Hardly.
Look at Balmer's undisclosed list of 'patents' the Linux OS is allegedly infringing on. Microsoft's management insists they have no intention of suing - but they also refuse to make an official and legally binding statement to that effect. (Can you say 'FUD' boys & girls?)
Microsoft has a history of pushing for "open" when it works to their advantage - or a competitor's or (more importantly) an emerging technology's disadvantage. But the minute Redmond feels it has an opening, they invariably defect from the group and circle their wagons once again.
About the only thing that's really changed is Microsoft has learned to be more subtle about it.
8)
(Lordy, lordy, lordy! Don't they teach history anymore? ;D)
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