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Last post Author Topic: Bought (or thinking of buying) an Apple iPad? You may have been duped!  (Read 7397 times)

Deozaan

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How's that for a sensationalist headline/topic? I figured that with as well as my previous Apple-related thread has gone, I'd start this one up, too.

It’s pretty annoying to always have the iPad compared with Kindle and Nook and to hear all sorts of strange things -

Quote
iPad is the best-selling tablet – selling more than the Kindle tablet.

iPad is going to become the #1 eReader.

Kindle was the best tablet before the iPad came out.

There are two main ideas that are being propagated -
  • The iPad is an eReader and it takes on eReaders like the Kindle and Nook and Sony Reader.
  • The iPad is a Tablet and eReaders are tablets too.

It all makes sense when you dig deeper.

The real competitors the iPad is scared to be compared against

There are actually two categories that the iPad is much closer to than eReaders -
  • Netbooks.
  • Mobile Phones.

Of course, I don't expect this thread to be nearly as controversial as the other one, since generally the folks here at DC agree that Apple is all about marketing and hype. They're amazing at marketing, unfortunately what that really means is that they're really good at lying, and selling that lie for an exorbitant amount.

(thanks Allen for sharing this in your Google Reader feed)


wraith808

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Actually, seeing it made me change my views on the paradigm.  Against my netbook, the iPad does well.  The trade off is in multi-tasking on the netbook vs battery life on the ipad.  I don't use my netbook all that much.  Why?  Because it's pretty much tethered to the wall.  When I'm at home, I use my desktop.  Only in a few cases do I use my netbook.  Then when I go out to work- I don't necessarily get to use it daily.  When I finally get to use it- even on standby- in most cases, the battery is dead or almost dead.

I was a nay sayer, but seeing it in person and broadening my horizons when it came to the use of the netbook made me see things in a new light.  It's not going to work for everyone, but I'm now to the point where for the purposes I bought my netbook, the iPad will work better.

JavaJones

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Wraith, it sounds like you either have a crappy netbook, or a broken/old one. Might goes 9+hrs on battery, about the same as iPad as far as I know. I leave it laying around for weeks not plugged in and it still has basically a full charge. Of course mine is only about a year old, maybe a little less, but still. Is battery life really the only differentiator between the two for you? I guess depending on what you use the thing for that may be legitimate, but for me the keyboard is almost a must, as is multitasking, running any app I want, easy file sharing, built-in webcam for video chat, and a zillion other things the iPad just doesn't do. Basically I use my netbook like an ultra-portable general-purpose computer. I "make do" working on it when I don't want to lug around my larger laptop. It would be a whole lot more "making do" using an iPad. But yeah, if I wasn't trying to do any actual work on it, the iPad might suffice.

- Oshyan

Renegade

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I'm just disappointed that the Microsoft 'tablet-book' (Courier) has been torched. It looked really cool. Just like a real notebook (paper).

As for the iPad, I'm going to pass. This whole thing with Apple changing section 3.3.1 has just put a foul taste in my mouth. That and I'm not terribly impressed with my new iMac. Ubuntu is close enough to OS X that I don't really see any significant difference, except that I like Ubuntu better. I feel kind of gypped and deceived by Apple. That colors my perception there a bit.

The Kindle's screen is specifically designed for reading though. I don't know if the display technology in the iPad can keep up. (Things like eye-strain and readability are key there.) But superior technology is no guarantee for success (beta vs. VHS).

However, I do think that you're right with Apple's lies marketing being able to get them into the market there and to do a very good job of it.
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wraith808

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Wraith, it sounds like you either have a crappy netbook, or a broken/old one.

Nope.  Bought less than a year ago on Amazon.  Top of the line 8.9 Acer Aspire One.  If I want to do any real work, I use my desktop or my laptop.  So this wasn't for real work, but something for the living room and to take around with me- web browsing, writing, e-mail, reading books and comics, taking with me to the gaming session (better than a stack of gaming books).

Might goes 9+hrs on battery, about the same as iPad as far as I know. I leave it laying around for weeks not plugged in and it still has basically a full charge.

9 hours?  What do you have the power settings on?  I go full power all the time b/c the lower power settings feel sluggish.  And from my friends that have it, the iPad is more than 9 hours of usage, but that's not empirical in any way.

The Kindle's screen is specifically designed for reading though. I don't know if the display technology in the iPad can keep up. (Things like eye-strain and readability are key there.)
I read on my iPhone all the time and it's not really a problem other than screen real-estate.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 10:21:25 PM by wraith808 »

JavaJones

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In fairness, the "Courier" thing was probably just a product *concept*. The videos we saw were probably mockups at best. So yeah, great concepts, but could it actually be done the way it was shown? I don't know, and I'm even less confident of Microsoft's ability to do it. ;)

- Oshyan

Deozaan

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Might goes 9+hrs on battery, about the same as iPad as far as I know. I leave it laying around for weeks not plugged in and it still has basically a full charge.

9 hours?  What do you have the power settings on?  I go full power all the time b/c the lower power settings feel sluggish.  And from my friends that have it, the iPad is more than 9 hours of usage, but that's not empirical in any way.

I'm guessing you got a 3-cell battery and JavaJones got a 9-cell battery. I have a 6-cell battery and my netbook lasts about 5-6 hours with "normal" power settings and usage.

The Kindle's screen is specifically designed for reading though. I don't know if the display technology in the iPad can keep up. (Things like eye-strain and readability are key there.) But superior technology is no guarantee for success (beta vs. VHS).

That's just the thing. The iPad isn't really an eReader any more than a Notebook PC or a Smart Phone is an eReader. Yet it's being marketed as the superior eReader.

When you start comparing the iPad with other technologies that are most like it--namely a Smartphone or a Netbook/Notebook--you really start to see how the iPad falls short.

But Apple continues its "Emperor's New Clothes" marketing. It's almost like marketing a Honda motorcycle as the best bicycle around, while some of us are scratching our heads wondering why you wouldn't just go with a Harley-Davidson. That may be a bad analogy, since I'm not into motorcycles and don't know what would be considered low, mid, or top-class in the motorcycle realm, but I hope the idea comes across well.


Stoic Joker

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But Apple continues its "Emperor's New Clothes" marketing. It's almost like marketing a Honda motorcycle as the best bicycle around, while some of us are scratching our heads wondering why you wouldn't just go with a Harley-Davidson. That may be a bad analogy, since I'm not into motorcycles and don't know what would be considered low, mid, or top-class in the motorcycle realm, but I hope the idea comes across well.

As a biker that's been riding Harleys for over 25 years - I'd say you did just fine! :)

wraith808

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I'm guessing you got a 3-cell battery and JavaJones got a 9-cell battery. I have a 6-cell battery and my netbook lasts about 5-6 hours with "normal" power settings and usage.
How heavy is it?  My battery sticks out the back already... I can't imagine how big the other batteries are.  I have a 6-cell.  It advertises 6.5 hours, but it surely doesn't seem like it.  If I keep it up using it sporadically at work, it doesn't last all day, and it seems that it should. 

This is the version that I picked up: http://www.amazon.co...ZFS0/ref=oss_product

When you start comparing the iPad with other technologies that are most like it--namely a Smartphone or a Netbook/Notebook--you really start to see how the iPad falls short.
Why?  I saw James Kendrick on jkOnTheRun talking about how he blogs with his iPad out and about... and there were tons of people saying that he should just stick with his laptop/netbook.  If he's satisfied with it, then why is it so dangerous to others?  If he finds that he doesn't need these other functions to get what he needs done, then where is the need for the other functions?  Like I said, I use my iPhone currently for *most* of my reading, so I don't see where the iPad will feel that much different.  And it will let me do a lot of other things that the nook doesn't do.  And with the digital book wars going on, I like the fact that by getting the iPad I can use (a) my eReader books, (b) my non-drm multiformat books (c) my Kindle books (d) my b&n books.  If I purchased a nook or a Kindle, I'd give up one or more of those categories.  Recently, I wanted to get the new Dresden Files book in digital format.  The only distributor that had the rights to sell it was B&N.  One of my colleagues has a Kindle, and he had to get the dead tree edition.  I don't want the book seller's war to inconvenience me.  In addition, PDFs don't look good on any of them.  I tried to turn my netbook into something to do just that- but in the end, I was trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.  If you need to do a lot of keyboard intensive things, and plan to use it as a mini-laptop, I think a netbook is better.  But for what I do, I've come to increasingly see that the iPad is a good fit.  And if that's the case, then how does it fall short?  They're all tools- use what works for you, not what anyone tells you is right for you, whether it's the company that makes the tools, or the people around you that use them, IMO.  And a lesson that I took away from it also- don't depend on the marketing or anti-marketing efforts, try the device and see if it will fit your workflow.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 08:57:25 AM by wraith808 »

Darwin

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What annoys me is that its success has caused Microsoft and HP to shelve their own tablet plans. The Microsoft Courier was, in my opinion, quite a different machine from the iPad and much more in keeping with what I am looking for in the next generation of portable devices.
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

wraith808

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What annoys me is that its success has caused Microsoft and HP to shelve their own tablet plans. The Microsoft Courier was, in my opinion, quite a different machine from the iPad and much more in keeping with what I am looking for in the next generation of portable devices.

It doesn't seem that Microsoft is shelving Courier as much as it was always a prototype is what I'm taking from the news.  OTOH, I'm sort of stupefied with HP buying Palm.  Palm was good in the day. But I don't think it's so good now...

markan

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OTOH, I'm sort of stupefied with HP buying Palm.  Palm was good in the day. But I don't think it's so good now...

But Palm has an OS suited for appliances which might just be a better fit for a tablet aimed at competing with the iPad than anything MS has. I get the impression that HP would like to be able to offer a full package like Apple can rather than compete against the asian manufacturers as just another Windows OEM.

wraith808

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OTOH, I'm sort of stupefied with HP buying Palm.  Palm was good in the day. But I don't think it's so good now...

But Palm has an OS suited for appliances which might just be a better fit for a tablet aimed at competing with the iPad than anything MS has. I get the impression that HP would like to be able to offer a full package like Apple can rather than compete against the asian manufacturers as just another Windows OEM.

Apple is uniquely situated to do what it is doing IMO.  It's always been an outsider company- on the 'alternate' edge.  HP on the other hand isn't and hasn't.  So it really depends on how they position Palm and how they keep up with the dedicated Palm few- when Palm got away from those is when others were able to muscle in on their market.  But with that done, is there a way back?  I'm not so sure, and if there is, I'm not sure that HP is the company that will be able to pull it off.

Stoic Joker

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I can see the headlines now:
    Will the HPalm explode... Film at 11:00

Stoic Joker

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But for what I do, I've come to increasingly see that the iPad is a good fit.  And if that's the case, then how does it fall short?  They're all tools- use what works for you, not what anyone tells you is right for you, whether it's the company that makes the tools, or the people around you that use them, IMO.  And a lesson that I took away from it also- don't depend on the marketing or anti-marketing efforts, try the device and see if it will fit your workflow.

He's right - Even if I do hate Apple & refuse to buy an iAnything. - Making your own decision is the wisest course.

JavaJones

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Strange Wraith, your Acer has basically the same specs as mine (CPU, RAM, 6 cell battery, just under 3 pounds, etc.) but mine apparently has significantly better battery life. This is what I got: http://www.amazon.co...etbook/dp/B002DYIXMI

It advertises 10 hr life, but I get 9-9.5 regularly. They now have newer models advertising 12hr, so I bet you could get 10-11.

- Oshyan

wraith808

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I wonder what the difference is that makes the difference in battery life.  Mine only advertises 6.5, but yours advertises 10.5.  Strange...

JavaJones

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I don't know, I'm curious too. Also, my battery doesn't stick out or anything, it's not particularly big-seeming. I think it just makes thicker in the back than the front, so it's kind of like a stand almost. :D http://www.liliputin...-unboxing-video.html

- Oshyan

Carol Haynes

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Have you tried contacting Acer and seeing if they can supply a better battery pack - or just buy a spare battery?

wraith808

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Have you tried contacting Acer and seeing if they can supply a better battery pack - or just buy a spare battery?

The battery supplied gets a lifetime that is within the range that I would expect.  If they advertise 6.5 hours, I'd say 5-6 hours is good from my experience with that difference.  They have a 9-cell battery, but it's pretty big.  And carrying around an extra battery just so I can go all day?  Not really appealing.  And, as I stated in my second post, I sort of understated the differences.  I just don't really need a keyboard for my uses, and it actually gets in the way/makes using the device unwieldy for reading, which is my primary use for it, whether that is a book, a comic, or a website.

JavaJones

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Do you actually have an iPad yet? My impression is that the weight and need to constantly hold/prop up the thing actually is a detraction for comfortable long-term reading vs. even a netbook, which can stand in a readable position on its own quite easily. For example I can lay on my side and put my netbook in front of me and read something largely hands free, with only the occasional press of spacebar or arrow keys to move to a new page, but otherwise not needing to hold it up or anything. Same if I am in bed say, putting it up on stomach, or if I'm on the couch putting it on my lap (and inclining the screen a bit). Whereas the iPad, you have more versatile screen positioning, but it doesn't hold itself up, so you're responsible for doing that the entire time you use it. Just something to think about...

- Oshyan

wraith808

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Do you actually have an iPad yet? My impression is that the weight and need to constantly hold/prop up the thing actually is a detraction for comfortable long-term reading vs. even a netbook, which can stand in a readable position on its own quite easily.

I haven't purchased yet, but I have two co-workers who have, and the weight is a bit overstated IMO.  But then again, my first venture into the tablet world was the first Motion Tablet Computer and I used to use that to read, so this is really no comparison as far as weight is concerned. :)

Renegade

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In fairness, the "Courier" thing was probably just a product *concept*. The videos we saw were probably mockups at best. So yeah, great concepts, but could it actually be done the way it was shown? I don't know, and I'm even less confident of Microsoft's ability to do it. ;)

- Oshyan

I have a lot more faith in Microsoft. The best mouse I ever had was a Microsoft mouse. Their keyboards are also excellent. Don't know jack about the Zune though. (I think MS probably should have created a Zune platform for other MP3 players to use to increase interoperability and truly get the social experience rolling.)

Concept or prototype or whatever though, the Courier form factor is simply the absolute coolest of anything remotely like it. I'd buy one for sure, and probably another for my wife as well.

The iPad form factor has failed in the past several times. I think that the "Emperor's new clothes" may be enough to prop it up this time though. We'll see. Will people buy something that they don't use just because it is cool?

My prediction is that the true salvation for the iPad will be the App Store. If the iPad doesn't get truly useful software that fits the form factor, it will fail. The anti-trust case against Apple, and the willingness of developers to risk developing for Apple after Apple's repeated disrespect and contempt for its developers will all be important factors there. Dunno. We'll see.

Still, the iPad has nothing over the Courier when it comes to the coolness of the form factor. Just sad to see Courier shelved.
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Darwin

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Amen to that, brother Renegade, amen to that! I REALLY want a Courier!

Maybe we should start a petition!
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

Renegade

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Amen to that, brother Renegade, amen to that! I REALLY want a Courier!

Maybe we should start a petition!

That just might be an idea. I'll buy a domain name & host a site if anyone wants to help with design and content. And of course we will need some people to help evangelize and get support for the idea.

Anyone interested? Darwin?

Or, we could simply get a Facebook page with a vanity URL. That's a real fast way to get things moving. "IWantACourier" -- "IWannACourier" (iwannacourier) -- or whatever.

Just think about it this way... It's the first portable and FOLDABLE computer!~ Fold it up and take it with you. (I take laptops to be "opened" and not "folded".) It really IS a book. Flip page, scrawl notes, open programs, GSD (the NSFW version of GTD), etc. :P
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker