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The conflict of interest that is Google
Bamse:
If you want to get really depressed consider the big GA. Google is so evil with all those extremely detailed data mining features to manipulate your way to the top. What feeds and encourage screwed up search results right? Who is using GA besides Google? Can you hear the silence? ;) or who is really bothered besides a handful on a few forums? Who take part of this conspiracy? Is there a single corrupted power we conveniently can point at, warn against, link to! - or have many joined forces? Well, focus is wrong when digging in to details about how Google test what can be done with a toolbar, dns-server or whatever. Breaks up ABC order. Fact is most of those producing content, responsible for content are in bed with Google and smiling. Fascinating but tiny issues showing Googles "real" motives for "not evil" claim might not even be true, then or at least today. Google have made many "mistakes", corrected many as well. Google notes was indexed per default when introduced. Personal notebook published to the world. What does it tell you about how they think? Buzz thingy in Gmail is another example. I would be surprised if they do not "test" the waters from time to time. They probably have many people hired with that job description. Don't be so surprised - if a web admin with GA, ads and all don't act so surprised. Goal justify the means.
Btw, when testing a google search result you do remember to do localized search for every region in the world? There is no generic result since long. Using account/personalized web history just make it less meaningful to refer to results. Also goes for those who feel ever so happy by using 3rd party proxy - conditions of search decide results. Google can say, hmm next week lets try to pimp X in Sweden. Quick, take a screenshot! Well correct and false. I think they are way ahead of "researchers" :)
Renegade:
First, let me preface this post by saying that I am reluctant to make this comparison, but it simply is the best one because so many people are familiar with it in-depth. Yes... I'm going into Godwin territory... (This will only be political, and not address the holocaust.)
I also want to make it clear that I am using these examples to set the stage as they form background information for the topic at hand.
The rise of the Nazi party is well documented. Hitler's seizure of power follows small steps that progress towards his ultimate take over of the Reichstag and his ascension to power as dictator.
If you watch the first 3 episodes of Star Wars (I, II, III), Palpatine follows the same basic steps in his rise to Emperor. i.e. This is a familiar theme that is repeated in story telling.
So we fully understand the path where a perceived crisis leads to a solution that erodes some kind of freedom.
Thomas Hobbes wrote the definitive work on this with The Leviathan. He outlines exactly how crises in nature lead us to surrender freedoms to a "sovereign".
This theme is echoed by John Locke as well in his "social contract".
There are many, many, many more works in non-fiction and in history about this exact procession.
I'm not stating anything that isn't well documented.
DIGRESSION TO CURRENT STATE OF AFFAIRS IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Now, when you look at the state of affairs in the USA over the past 40 years or so, you see a clear trend where the "terrorism" theme is introduced in the 1970's, expanded in the 1980's, ingrained in the consciousness of the public in the 1990's and beginning there, used to slowly erode freedoms until 2001 when "911" is used to polarize the public and introduce legislation that effectively gives the government carte blanche to do whatever they want.
The most recent developments are the TSA conducting "enhanced body searches" which really equate to sexual assault. Please search on this topic for further information. There's lots out there along with a massive public backlash over it.
However, history shows us that backlashes like that against the TSA are short lived by the public in many cases. They have only to keep it up until people tire of fighting against it. China is a good example of the same basic process where dissidents are marginalized and suppressed until the public at large surrenders.
Another example of the erosion of basic freedoms in in how current legislation is on the table to make it illegal for US residents to grow food or use seeds that their gardens produce.
You pretty much need to be brain-dead to not understand that making it illegal for people to grow food is bad. But that is what is happening right now...
WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH GOOGLE?
The analogy here is that governments are merely "agents" in the philosophical sense of the word, and that companies are also "agents". "Agents" normally includes humans as agents as well, but for the purposes here we only look at organizational agents. Note that a king, queen or emperor would also be an agent in the same sense in that they are institutions in and of themselves even though they are confined to a single individual. (Incidentally, this concept of agency is well presented in the TV series "Merlin" when you look at Arthur's father and his attitudes towards the monarchy/throne.)
However, you need to look at more recent history to see the same themes played out. The British East India Company. Exxon Mobile. AT&T. Standard Oil. Microsoft (<2003~5). Monsanto. The list goes on and on and on. The problem there is that these stories are not rally ingrained in the popular consciousness the way in which the Nazi example is. Still, they bear all the same signs of the rise to power.
ABOUT US HERE AT DONATIONCODER
Now, we focus on Google and technology topics here, but the same issues exist elsewhere and they do not differ significantly other than in the names of the companies and the names of the individuals involved. That is, they are all playing out the "Star Wars" theme of the rise to power (the same theme discussed by Thomas Hobbes, Niccolo Machiavelli, John Locke, and countless others).
If we were all farmers instead of techies, we would be having the exact same discussion, but instead of Google, we would be discussing Monsanto. (However, Monsanto truly is much more evil than Google because they are further under the radar than Google is.)
WHAT CODETRUCKER IS POINTING OUT...
CodeTRUCKER has neatly pointed out that we have sufficient historical precedent to genuinely have concerns over what is happening in Mountain View (and Dublin as that's where they funnel their money through).
CodeTRUCKER, you are 100% right on the money.
CodeTRUCKER:
Unfortunately, this debate can only have two perspectives. There can be no neutral position, so take your pick...
or
[Edit - Nice post, Renegade. I really hope history does not repeat itself. :( ]
Renegade:
Unfortunately, this debate can only have two perspectives. There can be no neutral position, so take your pick...
or
[Edit - Nice post, Renegade. I really hope history does not repeat itself. :( ]
-CodeTRUCKER (November 20, 2010, 12:04 AM)
--- End quote ---
Thanks. :)
One of the frustrating things for me is it all just seems trivially obvious.
Another source of frustration for me is Americans that don't understand what the right to bear arms is about. It's not about protecting yourself from some burglar... It's about protecting yourself from an oppressive state. It's really not that hard to understand. States throughout history have banned weapons for that reason and that reason alone -- they didn't want uprisings.
While I'm not American (though I am North American :) ), I appreciate and admire the US constitution and how the country was formed. It's an amazing story. It's sad to see it being flushed down the toilet though. Too many people just don't know their history lessons. :(
Sigh... No hope... ;(
mouser:
remember our no-politics policy.. let's not let this thread get too far down the politics hole.
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