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Last post Author Topic: Apple instigates Police Raid over lost/stolen iPhone 4G  (Read 31731 times)

Deozaan

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Apple instigates Police Raid over lost/stolen iPhone 4G
« on: April 27, 2010, 10:55:08 AM »
Anyone hear about this?

Police have seized computers and servers belonging to an editor of Gizmodo in an investigation that appears to stem from the gadget blog's purchase of a lost Apple iPhone prototype.

...

"When I got home, I noticed the garage door was half-open," according to an account by Chen. "And when I tried to open it, officers came out and said they had a warrant to search my house and any vehicles on the property 'in my control.' They then made me place my hands behind my head and searched me to make sure I had no weapons or sharp objects on me."

...

Dalglish said that the San Mateo County search warrant violated the federal Privacy Protection Act, which broadly immunizes news organizations from searches--unless, in some cases, the journalists themselves committed the crime. The 1980 federal law requires police to use subpoenas to obtain information instead of search warrants, she said.

Editors at Gizmodo, part of Gawker Media's blog network, last week said they paid $5,000 for what they believed to be a prototype of a future iPhone 4G. The story said the phone was accidentally left at a bar in Redwood City, Calif., last month by an Apple software engineer and found by someone who contacted Gizmodo, which had previously indicated that it was willing to pay significant sums for unreleased Apple products.


cmpm

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Re: Apple instigates Police Raid over lost/stolen iPhone 4G
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2010, 11:26:30 AM »
Quote
the phone was accidentally left at a bar in Redwood City, Calif., last month by an Apple software engineer

that's the unbelievable part :)


wraith808

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Re: Apple instigates Police Raid over lost/stolen iPhone 4G
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2010, 11:32:06 AM »
I haven't heard about it, but IMO they deserve it.  As much as I might not approve of some of Apple's tactics, for Gizmodo to pay for a phone that they know was not the property of whom they were buying from was criminal.  And for them to post the follow up saying that they were trying to keep the engineer from getting fired was hypocrisy at its highest.  If they were really concerned about the engineer, they wouldn't have posted it, but would have done like several other news outlets and said that they would pass.  The guy was going to return the phone until he realized what he had- if Gizmodo hadn't put out their open bounty on Apple items, he might not have even tried to sell it.  Just my opinion, but this whole thing has rubbed me the wrong way.

Quote
the phone was accidentally left at a bar in Redwood City, Calif., last month by an Apple software engineer

that's the unbelievable part :)



Well, apparently to get real world data, they let engineers use disguised versions of their upcoming products.  Makes a certain amount of sense, really.

Eóin

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Re: Apple instigates Police Raid over lost/stolen iPhone 4G
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2010, 12:21:50 PM »
For Gizmodo to pay for a phone that they know was not the property of whom they were buying from was criminal.

Lost and found doesn't equal stolen. You are of course supposed to go to steps to return a good before you can claim ownership and I tend to agree Gizmodo's actions here are very dubious.

As for the engineer, he definitely deserves to get fired. Of all places to bring such a device the pub was not one of them! I bet he just wanted to show it off.

40hz

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Re: Apple instigates Police Raid over lost/stolen iPhone 4G
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2010, 12:28:03 PM »
Anybody want some of this sushi Apple sent over?

It's red herring.  ;D


f0dder

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Re: Apple instigates Police Raid over lost/stolen iPhone 4G
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2010, 12:31:36 PM »
Lost and found doesn't equal stolen. You are of course supposed to go to steps to return a good before you can claim ownership and I tend to agree Gizmodo's actions here are very dubious.
Dubious indeed, and they deserved a visit by law enforcement and having the phone confiscated.

But a full search, being treated like a dangerous criminal, and seizing computers and servers? That's f*cking insane, and pisses me off. It's a phone they were supposed to retrieve.
- carpe noctem

Eóin

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Re: Apple instigates Police Raid over lost/stolen iPhone 4G
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2010, 12:35:22 PM »
There is a element of corporate espionage here, it's more serious than just the phone.

f0dder

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Re: Apple instigates Police Raid over lost/stolen iPhone 4G
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2010, 12:50:01 PM »
There is a element of corporate espionage here, it's more serious than just the phone.
I still think it's bull - like when American lobbyists flexed their muscles enough to get JLJ's home raided (even though he did nothing wrong according to Norwegian law) back in the DeCSS days.
- carpe noctem

wraith808

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Re: Apple instigates Police Raid over lost/stolen iPhone 4G
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2010, 01:02:23 PM »
As for the engineer, he definitely deserves to get fired. Of all places to bring such a device the pub was not one of them! I bet he just wanted to show it off.

Why was the pub not one of them?  To get real-world usage, they have the focus group use the device as if it were their own phone.  Do you leave your phone at home just because you go to the pub?  And I doubt it was to show it off- I'm sure that is an actionable offense if you're in the focus group.  Read the original account of the finding of the phone- at first, until the person that found it actually took the cover off, they thought it was a 3G.

Eóin

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Re: Apple instigates Police Raid over lost/stolen iPhone 4G
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2010, 03:20:30 PM »
Well I just see it as taking a level of care and caution. Even if he wasn't drinking, so there isn't an issue of judgments being impaired, I still don't see how the risk can be justified. Pubs and night's out are generally risky places for expensive personal belongings of all kinds, given the importance of this particular item I just cannot see how bringing it along was a good idea.

wraith808

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Re: Apple instigates Police Raid over lost/stolen iPhone 4G
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2010, 05:07:47 PM »
I think the key in a focus group is to use it as you would any other device.

Stoic Joker

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Re: Apple instigates Police Raid over lost/stolen iPhone 4G
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2010, 05:35:18 PM »
It's way to (pathetically) easy to saddle up the moral high ground and vilify the engineer for having the phone at a bar, when the only really relevant point is (shit happens) the phone got lost. How (badly) who handled it afterward...on the other hand...Seems to be where the story goes sideways.

Stevie has spent way to much time playing the grand illustrious god of Apple World to really pay attention (or care) how the rest of the world normally works. 50 years ago, when the auto industry was king (of the tech pile) the same game was being played.

Fans craving more new info about what was to be next.
Tech mags jockied and fought for any glimmer under loose tarps.
Companies fought to keep their secrets...albeit only so hard.

 ...because they understood to keep the fans frothing, you have to give them something, every now and then.

Nobody got arrested - for crying out loud.

Today still the auto makers run new prototype cars in the same desert, and the same crowd of journalists are still pulling the same stunts (peaking under tarps & checking for unlocked trailer doors) trying to get a "Hot Story" pick of what might be.

And that's just the way the game is played for the rest of the known universe out here in the real world...

...But Apple is "Special" - Not in my book (unless you want to toss in the short bus...).

Apple had a screw up (IT HAPPENS) They should have just quickly & quietly spun it off into silence - but no! It just had to be viewed as an affront to his lordship ruler of all and be dealt with as an example maker to strike fear into anyone insolent enough to question the power and glory of the one true god Steve Jobs.

All I can say is they should have a really hard time getting press coverage for a damn thing from here out.

wraith808

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Re: Apple instigates Police Raid over lost/stolen iPhone 4G
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2010, 08:37:34 PM »
I don't have a problem with getting a story, as long as its by ethical means.  Bloggers want to make money from their work, and want to be considered as legitimate media outlets, but use paycheck journalism to get their stories and don't want to be held accountable for their actions.  Who can pay $5000 for a phone that they know is not the person's who they are paying, and think that's right?

Stoic Joker

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Re: Apple instigates Police Raid over lost/stolen iPhone 4G
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2010, 05:37:50 AM »
Every Law Enforcement Agency on the planet for starters.

Cash is a great incentive for getting people to part with thing, be they "stolen" property (a.k.a. evedence...) or information. And despite its infinitely more portable nature ... Information is indeed a big issue, especially when it goes "missing".

Remember, the phone itself was nothing more that $10 worth of crap anyone could buy at Radio Shack - The information contained in form they were assembled into is where the real value was held.

Renegade

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Re: Apple instigates Police Raid over lost/stolen iPhone 4G
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2010, 06:04:01 AM »
There seems to be a number of misunderstandings here in what happened. Let me clarify a few things first before I respond/rant.

In order:

  • Apple engineer loses 4G iPhone - http://gizmodo.com/5520438/how-apple-lost-the-next-iphone
  • Somebody finds iPhone
  • The person tries to RETURN THE IPHONE TO APPLE
  • Apple ignores all (several) attempts to return the phone
  • Gizmodo gets phone for $5,000
  • Gizmodo publishes story
  • Apple changes mind - decides it wants iPhone back
  • Apple lawyer contacts Gizmodo and demands phone back - http://gizmodo.com/5...s-secret-iphone-back
  • Gizmodo returns phone
  • Apple decides to be vindictive and gets a search warrant for Jason Chen's house despite the fact that journalists are protected from such things
  • Police kick in Jason's door and ransack his house, stealing a number of computers, storage devices, etc. http://gizmodo.com/5...ason-chens-computers

It is APPLE that would not accept the iPhone back. So what's the problem? Gizmodo published a story and RETURNED THE PHONE WHEN ASKED FOR IT.

It was AFTER Gizmodo returned the phone that the police ransacked Jason's house.

Apple is despicable. They are a petty, vindictive, sinister, secretive, closed, greedy, back-stabbing, disgraceful and evil company.

Gizmodo did nothing wrong. The phone was never stolen. It was lost. It was also returned after the OWNER REFUSED TO TAKE IT BACK then changed their minds and SENT A LAWYER TO ASK FOR THE ***LOST*** PHONE BACK.

Not sure if I mentioned this, but Apple is despicable. They are a petty, vindictive, sinister, secretive, closed, greedy, back-stabbing, disgraceful and evil company.

The police raid on Jason Chen's home -- where the police bashed in his front door -- was illegal and motivated by nothing more than pure malice and spite on Apple's part, and everyone knows it. Journalists are protected as the Gizmodo legal counsel pointed out to the police.

Type "apple is" into Google and the autocomplete will show you "apple is an evil evil company" as the first option. I doubt that's a coincidence.

Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Stoic Joker

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Re: Apple instigates Police Raid over lost/stolen iPhone 4G
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2010, 06:33:20 AM »
ROFLMAO - You obviously hate Apple much better than I do ;)

It was AFTER Gizmodo returned the phone that the police ransacked Jason's house.
Very interesting - I did not know that part.

Quote
Apple is despicable. They are a petty, vindictive, sinister, secretive, closed, greedy, back-stabbing, disgraceful and evil company.

...I just though this needed repeating (hehe).

nudone

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Re: Apple instigates Police Raid over lost/stolen iPhone 4G
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2010, 06:40:13 AM »
oh well, looks like i now hate Apple even more than i did a few minutes ago too. i now have a new lifetime ambition - to see Apple vanish into obscurity before i die.

Carol Haynes

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Re: Apple instigates Police Raid over lost/stolen iPhone 4G
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2010, 06:46:18 AM »
Preferably in a plain white box ;)

40hz

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Re: Apple instigates Police Raid over lost/stolen iPhone 4G
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2010, 08:15:06 AM »
It will only be a matter of time before the world gets completely fed up with Steve Jobs, Apple Computer, and all their "Big Ugly" antics.

And when it finally happens, it will seem like it happened overnight.

Society only tolerates one or two bad boys (or girls) at a time. And once societal 'permission' is withdrawn, they're quickly kicked to the curb and reviled, thereby paving the way for a new crop of DeBas (i.e. Designated Bastards) to replace them.

I'm guessing it will start in Europe since they don't even have the paltry excuse of 'showing support for a successful domestic company' to motivate them to defend Apple.

Can hardly wait. :)


-----

Note: I also don't buy about 75% of the story. I find it hard to believe someone working for Apple would be that careless considering how fanatical the company is about security. And I'm even more skeptical after hearing that same employee was able to keep his job when Apple has fired people for far far less.

Sorry, but the whole thing is starting to sound like one big setup; or a publicity stunt that didn't quite go according to script.

Maybe next time, Apple could just ask the police to go over to Mr. Chen's place and threaten to kick the living tar out of him? That's what their plant security guys did to that news photographer over in China.

Global Village, right? 8)
« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 09:20:52 AM by 40hz »

Renegade

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Re: Apple instigates Police Raid over lost/stolen iPhone 4G
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2010, 09:31:41 AM »
ROFLMAO - You obviously hate Apple much better than I do ;)

It was AFTER Gizmodo returned the phone that the police ransacked Jason's house.
Very interesting - I did not know that part.

Quote
Apple is despicable. They are a petty, vindictive, sinister, secretive, closed, greedy, back-stabbing, disgraceful and evil company.

...I just though this needed repeating (hehe).

:D Hehehe!

I started a blog to chronicle my pain as I start developing for Apple platforms - http://microsoft2apple.com/. I bought an iMac just before all this insanity broke out. So, it has kind of devolved into a series of rants. As such, I've taken a break from it until my anger subsides.

Like really! I spent $2,000 on a computer and another $238 in Apple developer fees only to be ambushed with a major policy change that no other comparable platform company would ever consider. Grrrr...

I was mostly neutral towards Apple before, and even positively predisposed towards them in a lot of ways (though I still loathe fanboys), but it's really hard to think about them positively when they pull underhanded dirty tricks like this.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Dormouse

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Re: Apple instigates Police Raid over lost/stolen iPhone 4G
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2010, 09:38:17 AM »
 Who can pay $5000 for a phone that they know is not the person's who they are paying, and think that's right?
By paying the money and writing the story, they managed to get Apple to ask for their phone back.

If they hadn't paid the money & inspected the phone themselves, they could never have been sure it was Apple's instead of the imitation the Apple support people originally believed it to be. It wasn't impossible that they were paying for a copy.

Dormouse

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Re: Apple instigates Police Raid over lost/stolen iPhone 4G
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2010, 09:41:00 AM »
Apple is despicable. They are a petty, vindictive, sinister, secretive, closed, greedy, back-stabbing, disgraceful and evil company.

It still bears even more repeating. :Thmbsup:
And it wasn't me that said it  ;D  ;D

wraith808

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Re: Apple instigates Police Raid over lost/stolen iPhone 4G
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2010, 10:48:12 AM »

  • The person tries to RETURN THE IPHONE TO APPLE
  • Apple ignores all (several) attempts to return the phone



Reference?  From everything I read, the person was going to try to return it... then the next day the data was wiped remotely.  He was still going to try to return it, but then noticed that something was different, and after he realized that it wasn't just an vanilla iPhone decided to sell it.

Stoic Joker

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Re: Apple instigates Police Raid over lost/stolen iPhone 4G
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2010, 11:36:12 AM »
Whether he tried to return it or not is really academic - Outside of the 1872 blue-law they dredged up - Which ws predicated on there being less then 50 in the whole town...

[Reality Check]
History/Discovery/TLC (one of them) had a special about the volume of stuff lost/left on airplanes. One on the Items they sited was the iPhone ... There are 17,000 of them lost per day at various airports. Most of them go unclaimed, and are sold off (at Airline outlet stores) with the rest of the items that are left in Lost-&-Found for over a period of time.

JavaJones

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Re: Apple instigates Police Raid over lost/stolen iPhone 4G
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2010, 01:44:23 PM »
My understanding was that he "tried to give it back to Apple" by calling tech support or something. If tech support responded to "Hey, I have this next gen iPhone thingy. Do you want it?" with "I'm sorry sir, I don't know what you're on about, please stop binge drinking and taking drugs, go lie down for a while, then call us back when you have your head in order." then I wouldn't be surprised, nor would I necessarily blame them. Knowing support departments, there really aren't many easy/quick routes to escalate that sort of thing; just getting them to take you seriously would be a job in itself. That being said I'm not saying it's tech support's fault, I'm saying this guy could have done a better job of trying to return it. Or he could have, I don't know, called/facebooked/whatever the guy whose phone he had, because apparently all the guy's personal info was still on it before it got remotely erased by Apple.

And yes it does matter whether he tried to return it because that's his legal responsibility. If he is unable to return it to the rightful owner he should turn it over to the police and let them sort it out. That's my understanding of the legal requirement in this case. If he fails to do those things, he is essentially dealing with "stolen" property, and that's the argument I understand is being made against Gizmodo, that the search and seizure wasn't disallowed by journalistic protection laws because it was related to a felony investigation (theft) rather than a simple "give us your source" shakedown. Think about it, if "journalistic immunity" granted you the right to do whatever you wanted with stolen property and then just give it back when the owner asks for it with no consequences, I'm sure every Joe Random thief would have a blog to make them "journalists". ;)

- Oshyan
« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 01:47:14 PM by JavaJones »