Other Software > Found Deals and Discounts
Sagelight Image Editor - pay what you want promo (Apil 2010)
CWuestefeld:
So, I'm thinking about doing quite a few short videos on various feature and putting them up on Youtube. But, I am wondering what people think on the best way to describe how to use more advanced features in an easy way?
-Rob Nelson (December 06, 2010, 10:24 PM)
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Rob, I found some of the videos you've already created to be quite helpful. Unfortunately it's been long enough that I don't recall the specific attributes that made them work, but I can tell you that the ones on making Thomas Kinkade-like pictures, and about the "undo brush", both stand out in my mind as giving me an "ah-hah!" moment.
I downloaded your videos from YouTube into my media server, then sat down in front of the TV to watch them in comfort. And I think I did get a lot out of it.
But I do know how much work can go into producing one of those videos. I can recall producing one of my own, a demo of a new web site for internal use here at work, and spending an entire day planning out, scripting, and then editing, a single video.
Rob Nelson:
-cyberdiva (December 07, 2010, 02:44 PM)
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I think I'm the sort of person who would benefit a lot from what you're proposing. However, I don't think there's a single format that would be best for all kinds of situations. Sometimes, a video demonstrating what a particular effect is or how someone achieves that effect can be much more effective than written instructions, but at other times written instructions may cover some key points that are passed over too quickly (or just assumed) in a video. For me, the key element is detail. I was recently trying to use a piece of software to get a particular effect with graphics. My attempts were all flawed. I went to a video that the company had prepared to illustrate how to achieve this effect, but though it showed someone successfully creating what I wanted, it somehow glossed over some of the key steps and was thus of no use to me. I finally wrote to tech support, and their response spelled out the steps that had not been mentioned anywhere else. That's what I needed. So whether it's a video or written instructions, I think the more detailed it is, the better. (For that reason, I wouldn't think pop-up help would be all that useful. If it was sufficiently detailed it might turn out to be annoying, popping up every few seconds with another piece of advice.)
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I've always learned best by having a general outline and then a specific list of steps that I can then experiment with. I have tried to write as much help as possible in Sagelight, but I am also the sort of person who doesn't read the instructions in software that I buy! I am experimenting with the idea of a quick-info sheet where it can be launched for each function with a concise list of features.
Now that Sagelight has been around for a while, I've been able to see what works and what doesn't work, and I am also finding that what works for some people works well, but it isn't necessarily the thing that works for someone else.
So far, I'm finding that the idea of having a little topical '?' button around each function works pretty well, as opposed to having to search for the subject in the help. I'm also learning that a detailed help discussion isn't as helpful as I'd like. It becomes a bit of a catch-22 in the sense that the reference needs to be there for as much as possible for when you need it, but to get a general intuitive sense of the function, it's better to keep it short. But, then, I'm feeling that a lot of the really cool things you can do with this switch or that isn't really explained, either!
So, the video tutorials seem like a good choice, and I'm also finding that, for people who like the video tutorials, this seems to be a great method (as long as I can learn to speak slower, which has been a comment I've received a few times. ha). But, I'm finding that the video tutorials only works as the best tool for a small percentage of people. I'm thinking that it might be because they are located on Youtube as opposed to something you can load and view immediately in the software?
One of my main things is what you talked about -- writing tech support about how to do a specific thing in the video. I get those letters, and I'm always happy to explain how to do something. But, on the other hand, I want to find a way to get across those basic elements in the video so that it's easier to play with and to mix-and-match components. As Sagelight grows, that mix-and-match ability grows and grows but can also become more obscure because the dots need to be connects, such as doing one filter and then another, and then mixing them, say, with an overlay blending, and that sort of thing.
What do you think about the idea of video tutorial snippets? The idea being to do multiple small 1-2 minute detail on a specific aspect of a function, as opposed to a 10-minute video outlining the whole thing? I agree with you about the issue of detail, but that's when an overall-tutorial starts to become very dry and elongated.
Rob
J-Mac:
I think that video tutorials would be excellent. However I personally like to have a manual that I can refer to when needed. I can't always sit at the computer and read or watch tutorials; certain problems prevent me from sitting in any one position for very long, so I often print out sections of manuals so I can read them, make notes on the parts I really need, etc. and then have that with me when I return to the computer to work on that particular application. I even go as far as to convert Help files into PDF documents so I can print all or portions of them and use them as I need them.
Of course I don’t expect a full blown manual for Sagelight to be written any time soon, but... if you or anyone else catches the writing bug anytime in the future... sure would be greatly appreciated here! :) :P
Thanks!
Jim
Rob Nelson:
So, I'm thinking about doing quite a few short videos on various feature and putting them up on Youtube. But, I am wondering what people think on the best way to describe how to use more advanced features in an easy way?
-Rob Nelson (December 06, 2010, 10:24 PM)
--- End quote ---
Rob, I found some of the videos you've already created to be quite helpful. Unfortunately it's been long enough that I don't recall the specific attributes that made them work, but I can tell you that the ones on making Thomas Kinkade-like pictures, and about the "undo brush", both stand out in my mind as giving me an "ah-hah!" moment.
I downloaded your videos from YouTube into my media server, then sat down in front of the TV to watch them in comfort. And I think I did get a lot out of it.
But I do know how much work can go into producing one of those videos. I can recall producing one of my own, a demo of a new web site for internal use here at work, and spending an entire day planning out, scripting, and then editing, a single video.
-CWuestefeld (December 07, 2010, 02:55 PM)
--- End quote ---
ha... I have to admit, I really enjoyed discovering how to do that with the paintings. I always had mixed emotions putting in the effects because I thought they might distract from the main emphasis of Sagelight (i.e. it might become confused as an attempt at a general editor as opposed to having a focus on image enhancement). But, when I saw how you can augment a picture by blending filters, I was glad I put them in.
Also, I think the Undo Brush is one of the elements about Sagelight that gets overlooked even though it is one of the 2-3 central concepts in Sagelight that gives it its power.
yes, in terms of producing videos. They always take longer than you'd think. I look at later ones vs. earlier ones and I see higher quality, mostly because I have a much faster computer now and can get more frames-per-second. ha. I've usually just decided what I want to talk about and record what I do. Almost none of it is pre-scripted, which makes it more interesting to do, but probably makes it go along faster. But, each one probably does take about half a day, just for 10 minutes. Keeping it as short as possible seems to be the most time-consuming element of it!
What do you think about the idea of small videos that detail specific elements of a function as opposed to the whole thing? For example, as soon as I get this pre-release out, I have a number of videos I'd like to do. I want to write the help for it, too, but it will be quicker to do some initial videos.
I have been finding that I tend to put a lot of functions and details into one function, so I have a lot of "program within a program" issues going on. For example, one of the things in the new version is essentially traditional curves, but on top of that I'm hoping to extend the way curves work by adding a Chroma channel on each color space (i.e. RGBC,XYZC,C*I*E LABC, etc. as well as RGB-LCH, C*I*E LCH, etc.), so that's a video. But in addition to that would be a video detail just how to use the curves box effectively, as I added a number of details to it specifically to make using curves much easier, such as being able to very rapidly switch between curve channels, etc. Then there is the way I split the (C) channel into two separate components, a curve and a multiplier, etc. -- all very useful things, and making the ability with the curves very powerful, but only so if those elements are understood.
Thoughts?
Rob
Rob Nelson:
I think that video tutorials would be excellent. However I personally like to have a manual that I can refer to when needed. I can't always sit at the computer and read or watch tutorials; certain problems prevent me from sitting in any one position for very long, so I often print out sections of manuals so I can read them, make notes on the parts I really need, etc. and then have that with me when I return to the computer to work on that particular application. I even go as far as to convert Help files into PDF documents so I can print all or portions of them and use them as I need them.
Of course I don’t expect a full blown manual for Sagelight to be written any time soon, but... if you or anyone else catches the writing bug anytime in the future... sure would be greatly appreciated here! :) :P
-J-Mac (December 15, 2010, 02:39 PM)
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Hi, Jim.
I've always felt that Sagelight has a very large volume of written help. For example, under the help section there are about 70 detailed entries on the various things in Sagelight, which is a congolomteration of all the help scattered around the editor. Not that it doesn't need updating, that's for sure. And with this next version, I'll be doing just that, especially with the newer functions.
Having said that, though, I'm wondering what you would like to see? Do you mean using Sagelight in a general sense, such as color theory and how certain elements work, or a manual on specific things? As an extension of what is already there, I've always wanted to write a basic book about image enhancement principles (i.e. how the histogram works, black points and white points, overflows, why color balancing is important, etc.) to go along with Sagelight and that would use Sagelight to demonstrate the principles.
Rob
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