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Last post Author Topic: HTML...In Britsh?  (Read 9609 times)

app103

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Re: HTML...In Britsh?
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2010, 04:20:25 PM »
English is not a dead language. It is still evolving, both in the US and the UK, as well as anywhere else it is used. Local versions will exist that will vary from the original for much the same reason why there are different races of people on this planet...

They evolved that way.

Nobody on this planet currently uses the version of English that existed at the time of the American Revolution.

To prove my point, I refer to this excerpt of a British publication about the work of Benjamin Franklin, as it appeared when it was first printed, way back in 1751:

* ben franklin.zip (1147.06 kB - downloaded 195 times.) (zipped pdf)

None of us spell like that any more, not in the US or the UK. We don't even seem to use the same alphabet as we did back then.

So, no more about who is spelling things right or wrong unless you have plans on ignoring over 250 years of language evolution and adopting the spellings that were in use in 1751 on BOTH sides of the ocean.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 04:30:10 PM by app103 »

Stephen66515

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Re: HTML...In Britsh?
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2010, 04:44:12 PM »
My original argument was not that Americans spell things wrongly, but, rather to rant that I would like for both variations of the English language to be recognized by all coding facilities.

app103

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Re: HTML...In Britsh?
« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2010, 04:55:09 PM »
My original argument was not that Americans spell things wrongly, but, rather to rant that I would like for both variations of the English language to be recognized by all coding facilities.

I know that but the discussion devolved into one of who is spells it right and who spells it wrong.

And it really irritates me to listen to this type of argument because it is both silly and insulting to both sides.

The truth is that either both versions of English are right or they both are wrong.

So I'd like to see an end to the insult flinging from both sides of the ocean and for us all to be a little more educated about it and realize evolution of languages does happen, and neither version is wrong.

Stephen66515

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Re: HTML...In Britsh?
« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2010, 05:05:17 PM »
My original argument was not that Americans spell things wrongly, but, rather to rant that I would like for both variations of the English language to be recognized by all coding facilities.





I know that but the discussion devolved into one of who is spells it right and who spells it wrong.






As with most of my posts, we sorta went off topic lol

Eóin

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Re: HTML...In Britsh?
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2010, 07:03:14 PM »
... to rant that I would like for both variations of the English language to be recognized by all coding facilities.

Why stop there though, what about other languages, how about synonyms of various keywords? The truth is as Tuxman pointed out, code is simply not a language in the classical sense of spoken or written languages.

f0dder

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Re: HTML...In Britsh?
« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2010, 07:12:02 PM »
Classmate of mine had to do a little Excel automation today, and was puzzled why he couldn't do square roots. Turned out that in Danish locale, Excel doesn't have SQRT(), but a Danish abbreviation of it. Imagine how wonderful it must be to use spreadsheets written by people in other countries?

code == english, basta.
- carpe noctem

Tuxman

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Re: HTML...In Britsh?
« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2010, 07:14:49 PM »
code == not in any natural language, basta.

Dormouse

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Re: HTML...In Britsh?
« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2010, 07:22:47 PM »
The truth is that either both versions of English are right or they both are wrong.

They may both be right, but that doesn't mean it makes sense to call both of them English.
At some stage, English will need to be defined as the language as spoken/written in England, leaving the language spoken in the US needing a different title. It's the same situation with Spanish as spoken in Spain and South America.
And that's the issue about HTML; it's actually written in American but that does make it just a tiny bit more confusing for people used to writing in English - though personally I notice myself switching between the two spellings fairly automatically depending on where I'm writing (and sometimes switching back to English if I think that using the American spelling might seem an affectation).


app103

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Re: HTML...In Britsh?
« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2010, 07:38:55 PM »
They may both be right, but that doesn't mean it makes sense to call both of them English.
At some stage, English will need to be defined as the language as spoken/written in England, leaving the language spoken in the US needing a different title. It's the same situation with Spanish as spoken in Spain and South America.

If you want to change the name of the spoken languages, be it English, Spanish, French (yeah there are different versions of that too) or anything else, you are going to have to go back in time and prevent the spread those languages around the world in the first place, and perhaps create a new language just for use when conquering lands and then name it what you want, for each place you invade, colonize, or whatever.

Yes, I am proposing that if you don't want your native language mutated in another land, don't bring it with you when you conquer it. The locals will adopt it, and along with those you leave behind, will change it and call it by the same name as the language you speak, because at one time it was.

Languages are named after their country of origin, not after the country they belong to, because a language can't really belong to any single country that doesn't seal off its borders and never lets anyone in or out.

Dormouse

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Re: HTML...In Britsh?
« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2010, 08:00:47 PM »

If you want to change the name of the spoken languages, be it English, Spanish, French (yeah there are different versions of that too) or anything else, you are going to have to go back in time

...

Languages are named after their country of origin, not after the country they belong to, because a language can't really belong to any single country that doesn't seal off its borders and never lets anyone in or out.

This isn't really so. Languages evolve and diverge. After a while, it becomes inconvenient and impractical to call different versions by the same name and then they get different names. Languages are usually named by people who speak another language; it seems very unlikely that when this time comes for different names that English will be the name for the language in the USA and a different name will be used for the language in England. Canadian English is a bit of a mix of the two, tending more towards American English.

Dormouse

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Re: HTML...In Britsh?
« Reply #35 on: February 04, 2010, 08:10:48 PM »
Nobody on this planet currently uses the version of English that existed at the time of the American Revolution.

To prove my point, I refer to this excerpt of a British publication about the work of Benjamin Franklin, as it appeared when it was first printed, way back in 1751:
 (see attachment in previous post) (zipped pdf)

None of us spell like that any more, not in the US or the UK.

I had a look at this and would say it is pretty much identical.
The spelling of subtil/subtle has changed.
The dipthong/ligature ae and ligatures ct & st are now usually written as separate letters, if only because that's all that's available in typefaces.
f is used as a way of writing s (depending on position in sentence).
But these are just different conventions in the way it is written, not a change in spelling or meaning, and the passage is still very easy to read as long as you are aware of the f/s convention.
There are changes in words since then, many of them simply with greater standardisation of spelling, but the biggest difficulty for most people with texts from the 19th or 18th centuries is the style of writing rather than the words or spelling.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 08:13:14 PM by Dormouse »

Tuxman

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Re: HTML...In Britsh?
« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2010, 08:27:13 PM »
f is used as a way of writing s (depending on position in sentence).
ſ is not f.

app103

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Re: HTML...In Britsh?
« Reply #37 on: February 04, 2010, 08:30:46 PM »
Well, Brazilians still speak Portuguese, even if it isn't the same version spoken in Portugal, and the name hasn't changed yet, so don't get your hopes up on the American version of English being renamed any time soon, or within your great-grandchildren's lifetime, especially when the US technically doesn't have an official language, and for very good reasons. Without an official language, there is nothing to rename to "American".

Dormouse

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Re: HTML...In Britsh?
« Reply #38 on: February 04, 2010, 08:47:39 PM »
As I say, it's not usually the native speakers who give the name to a language and there has to be a good enough reason for other people to start making the distinction clearly. And nothing much depends on whether there is an official language or not unless there is an attempt to exterminate variations or other languages. Certainly the name won't change any time soon, and there's a fair chance the language will develop with a much stronger Spanish flavour well before that. But if you tell someone you speak 'American', they will know what you mean - and more exactly than if you say 'English'.