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Python Language Annoyances

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mouser:
Sorry to be harsh, but here's another example of what i think is almost unbelievably shoddy language design, and is a huge warning sign for me that Python should be dumped in favor of a new language at the earliest possible time:

http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t353367-why-is-there-no-post-pre-increment-operator-in-python.html

The use of ++variable and variable++ is a very common way of incrementing and decrementing variables, from the days of C and C++ and it can be found in Java and many other languages.

Now.. it's completely fine that Python not implement this -- I am all in favor of eliminating redundant ways to write expressions.  I have no complaint about python not supporting the increment operator.

However, what is totally insanely stupid is to design a modern language where the ++variable syntax is completely legal, and does nothing.

That is a decision absolutely guaranteed to cause problems and i'd be extremely surprised if there wasn't production code with such errors.

It just boggles my mind that someone could design a modern programming language and come up with such a poor design choice.

It's almost as if one of the goals of Python is to make it as easy as possible to write incorrect code that doesn't trigger any obvious errors.  This is not the way languages should be designed.

[In the interest of full disclosure, i should say that i am a native C/C++ coder, and C has it's own share of such things, for example in making this kind of conditional legal but misleading "if (a=5) ..", which was one of the great blunders of language design.  Haven't language designers learned not to do this by now?]

mouser:
Disclaimer:
I get very mad at things and have been known to rant incoherently at every piece of software I have ever used.  I am actually now using Python in a new little project, and I can say for some things it's very nice..  And I use PHP quite a lot which has it's own set of problems.  Every language does.

So don't take my harsh words against Python as some indication that i think it's any worse than every other major programming language.

I'm just trying to lay the groundwork for making my own programming language in the coming years ;)

mouser:
Just thought that I should add that, despite my complaints above, which i stand by, i've been coding in Python all weekend, and i do have to admit I'm having a lot of fun with it and getting a lot done.  Love the built in stack-trace printout when it hits an error, and nice module importing/compiling/etc.

parkint:
In my experience (spanning 30+ years, with over a dozen different languages) EVERY language/OS/protocol has its own peculiar annoyances.
Of course, each has its strengths and I like calling upon a particular "solution" based on how well it will address the "problem" at hand.
I appreciate the variety from which to choose.

Remember, "The great thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from"

tinjaw:
Just a word for "outsiders". I am considered one of the Python fanbois on this site. And I have been a regular here for years. I just wanted to let you know that mouser is being sincere here. He just doesn't have the time to list the many things he likes about the language, and we around here don't feel ashamed to just cut to the chase when discussing things. So please don't take his comments the wrong way.

With out boring you with details and requiring time I don't have to dedicate to this, let me just say that I believe much of this has to do with keeping things as simple as possible and python being more "metaprogramming" focused than other languages.

And a reminder to import this, as it will give you a better understanding of python.

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