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Author Topic: Win 7 XP Mode is Hardware-Dependent  (Read 11603 times)

mrainey

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Win 7 XP Mode is Hardware-Dependent
« on: January 16, 2010, 06:16:36 AM »
Apologies if this info has already been posted.  I had somehow thought that having the Pro version of Windows 7 was enough.


"How to confirm your PC can run Windows XP Mode

Although OEMs have been shipping hardware virtualization in PCs for three years, hardware virtualization is not available in all PCs—so even if your PC is new, it may not have hardware virtualization. Additionally, those PCs with hardware virtualization have it turned off by default, so you will need to turn on the hardware virtualization capability before you can use it."


http://www.microsoft.../configure-bios.aspx

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Stoic Joker

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Re: Win 7 XP Mode is Hardware-Dependent
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2010, 10:14:14 AM »
If it has already been posted (considering it's an awfully key detail) it's still well worth repeating.

cyberdiva

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Re: Win 7 XP Mode is Hardware-Dependent
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2010, 01:16:26 PM »
I agree with Stoic Joker.  I was unaware that some PCs--even new PCs--might not be able to run XP Mode.  If one is buying a new PC that runs Windows 7 Professional or Ultimate, how can one make sure before buying it that it has this feature?  Or do all PCs sold with Windows 7 Professional and Ultimate have this?

f0dder

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Re: Win 7 XP Mode is Hardware-Dependent
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2010, 01:40:53 PM »
Not all Win7 capable CPUs have virtualization support - Atom CPUs don't, and neither does most Centrinos. Dunno about non-centrino core2 CPUs, it's possible that some of the lower-end ones don't support it... and I haven't looked at AMDs offering at all (except from knowing that they do have a virtualization instruction set as well).

Buyer beware! :), look up CPU model number from the vendor before buying, and checker whether it supports VT-x (for intel) or AMD-V (for AMD). The wikipedia article on x86 virtualization also has some lists.
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Krishean

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Re: Win 7 XP Mode is Hardware-Dependent
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2010, 01:45:50 PM »
need a cpu with hardware virtualization built in, when choosing a desktop/laptop look up the cpu
Here for intel processors and make sure it has Intel® Virtualization Technology (VT-x) = Yes
Here for amd processors and make sure it has Virtualization = Yes

edit: cpu-world also has information about many processors. my old acer aspire 9300 has a cpu that was made in '06 and has hardware virtualization. just shows you that some things that are compatible with xp mode, even from a few years ago
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

- Arthur C. Clarke
« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 02:28:13 PM by Krishean »

mwb1100

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Re: Win 7 XP Mode is Hardware-Dependent
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2010, 12:23:24 AM »
The cpuz utility will tell you if your processor has AMD-V or Intel VT-x hardware virtualization support.

  - http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

Krishean

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Re: Win 7 XP Mode is Hardware-Dependent
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2010, 01:59:06 PM »
i really love CPU-Z, i use it on nearly every computer i own / work on  :D
other apps from cpuid i like are HWMonitor and PC Wizard

on this page it says you need another gig of ram on top of the minimum system requirements for xp mode. although i think you could run it with the minimum ram requirements (and they don't really enforce the ram requirement) i have found that if you are going to use the computer for anything serious that 1gb/32-bit 2gb/64-bit seems to be a reasonable amount of ram
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app103

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Re: Win 7 XP Mode is Hardware-Dependent
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2010, 05:59:36 PM »
Additionally, those PCs with hardware virtualization have it turned off by default, so you will need to turn on the hardware virtualization capability before you can use it.

My Dell Vostro 410 (Q6600) not only has it, came with it turned ON, by default.

lanux128

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Re: Win 7 XP Mode is Hardware-Dependent
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2010, 02:02:55 AM »
one can use a tool like Securable to identify if the processor supports "Hardware virtualization".

Securable-001.png
http://www.grc.com/securable.htm

Carol Haynes

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Re: Win 7 XP Mode is Hardware-Dependent
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2010, 06:11:37 AM »
That#s a handy little tool. Thanks.

mrainey

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Re: Win 7 XP Mode is Hardware-Dependent
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2010, 07:15:51 AM »
I have a Centrino Duo T2450, which is listed by Intel as not supporting virtualization.  This is the report I get from Securable.  It's all a bit over my head.


Virtualization Locked Off

"This processor's advanced hardware support for virtualization has been disabled and "locked off" by some external influence - most likely by this system's BIOS as the system was booting. Since enabling hardware virtualization will allow faster and more secure virtual machines and their hosting operating systems to run at 100% full speed, you may wish to poke around in your system's BIOS to see whether you're able to find any references to "hardware virtualization" or "VMX", etc."

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Carol Haynes

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Re: Win 7 XP Mode is Hardware-Dependent
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2010, 08:39:02 AM »
Some CPUs have virtualization but it is disabled when they sell them as OEM CPUs to give retail CPUs (at a higher price) a marketing edge. This seems to have been common in the early days of hardware VM technology.

mrainey

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Re: Win 7 XP Mode is Hardware-Dependent
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2010, 10:27:10 AM »
Thanks for the info.  I looked at my BIOS setup and didn't see anything that looked promising for enabling virtualization.  I can probably live without it.  :)
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f0dder

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Re: Win 7 XP Mode is Hardware-Dependent
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2010, 02:01:26 PM »
Some CPUs have virtualization but it is disabled when they sell them as OEM CPUs to give retail CPUs (at a higher price) a marketing edge. This seems to have been common in the early days of hardware VM technology.
...and sometimes you have a CPU that should have virtualization support, but for some reason your BIOS vendor has chosen to disable the feature - I'm a victim of this with my laptop :(

Btw, if you don't run any virtualization software, it's a good idea to turn it off in your BIOS - rootkits installing themselves as hypervisor == nasty stuff.
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Carol Haynes

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Re: Win 7 XP Mode is Hardware-Dependent
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2010, 07:34:21 PM »
I'm a victim of this with my laptop :(

Have you checked the mobo manufacturer for a generic BIOS (rather than the laptop specific BIOS) - you may find you can enable virtualization.

Check out how/if you can restore the original BIOS if things don't work though before you try it.

Usual disclaimer - if your computer bursts into flames please don't slash my tyres!

f0dder

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Re: Win 7 XP Mode is Hardware-Dependent
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2010, 03:06:01 AM »
Carol Haynes: nope, haven't checked - dunno if Insyde offers generic BIOS downloads (I do know that if you are "important enough" and work on "certain projects" you can get custom BIOS from them... dunno if I have any strings I can pull though :P).

And I'm not sure if I dare mess around with non-kosher BIOS; AFAIK the laptop has no "dual bios" or "rescue mode" or whatever. Can't really afford to fry it, and the company I bought it from (Zepto) has gone belly-up, so I don't know if it's even possible to get a badly flashed BIOS fixed...
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LordDaMan

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Re: Win 7 XP Mode is Hardware-Dependent
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2010, 02:35:36 PM »
Just a little clarification:

Windows Virtual PC requires hardware vitalization. Also, I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this, but it works on I believe every version of windows 7. The XP image is the only part platform dependent. Since this is just VPC, it's easy enough to install XP and install the integration tools to get the same exact integration as XP mode has


Krishean

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Re: Win 7 XP Mode is Hardware-Dependent
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2010, 03:08:40 PM »
xp mode does not work on every version of windows 7, its pro, ultimate, and enterprise only (source, also the microsoft download page will tell you that your edition is not supported if you select something like home premium)

i recently played around with the vm image itself, and it is possible to get it working under other vm software (VMware/VirtualBox for example) and other editions of windows (xp/vista/7) with some modifications. i didn't try to get it working with Virtual PC, but i assme there is a way to get it working on any computer that is capable of running Virtual PC.
VMware does not impose the hardware virtualization requirement, but it does suggest that having it will make things faster

go here and download the "Windows XP Mode" file, you can use 7-Zip to unarchive the files from the exe, finding the vm image inside is somewhat complicated

you can use VMware Converter to make the image compatible with the free VMware Player, or VMware Workstation (not free)

changing the vm's license to be compatible with your computer is somewhat of a gray area and i won't post how to do that here
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

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LordDaMan

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Re: Win 7 XP Mode is Hardware-Dependent
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2010, 03:54:05 PM »
xp mode does not work on every version of windows 7, its pro, ultimate, and enterprise only (source, also the microsoft download page will tell you that your edition is not supported if you select something like home premium)

Yes, it doesn't. XP mode, as defined by Microsoft, is windows virtual pc + XP mode disk image. Windows Virtual PC on the other hands works with no problem

In fact, here is the knowledge base article about windows virtual PC:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/958559

Quote
Supported host operating systems

    * Windows 7 Home Basic
    * Windows 7 Home Premium
    * Windows 7 Enterprise
    * Windows 7 Professional
    * Windows 7 Ultimate

Supported guest operating systems

    * Windows XP Service Pack 3 (SP3) Professional
    * Windows Vista Enterprise Service Pack 1 (SP1) and later versions
    * Windows Vista Ultimate Service Pack 1 (SP1) and later versions
    * Windows Vista Business Service Pack 1 (SP1) and later versions *
    * Windows 7 Professional *
    * Windows 7 Enterprise.
    * Windows 7 Ultimate

Here's a direct link to windows vpc turned up by a search for KB 958559 on Microsoft's site
http://download.micr...6.1-KB958559-x86.msu

Carol Haynes

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Re: Win 7 XP Mode is Hardware-Dependent
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2010, 04:58:42 PM »
Does the XP Mode image work in normal Virtual PC?

Krishean

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Re: Win 7 XP Mode is Hardware-Dependent
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2010, 06:03:41 PM »
it should in theory, but the licensing embedded in it may not work in normal virtual pc, or microsoft has disabled that feature on windows versions besides the ones that are supported
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

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4wd

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Re: Win 7 XP Mode is Hardware-Dependent
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2010, 08:44:59 PM »
The alternative VMLite actually uses the licensed image from MS' XP Mode download, works without hardware virtualisation and doesn't particularly care what version of Windows XP or higher it's running on.  VMLite itself is just a modified VirtualBox implementation.

It's only the written wording of MS' XP Mode EULA that makes it illegal to use it on anything other than what was intended.  There's no inbuilt 'software based restriction' in the image, (unless they've done something within VMLite to explicitly bypass it - in which case I'm sure MS would be yelling DMCA Infringement rather loudly).

I've downloaded all the programs, XP Mode stuff, etc, but like most things around here I haven't got 'a round tuit' yet  :-[
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 08:59:31 PM by 4wd »

unitg2

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Re: Win 7 XP Mode is Hardware-Dependent
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2010, 04:05:47 PM »
XPmode in Win7 has had terrible performance for me on my new Lenovo T500 with P8700 cpu. Bad delays even just typing text into notepad. My reason for trying Win7, but now have gone back to XP fulltime.

AFAIK, all AMD CPU have virtualization cept the Semprons. With Intel its a crapshoot, with even the same processor model numbers sometimes having it, sometimes not. You have to look at- I think- the "packaging ID" of the CPU to be sure. I notice Dell now mentions "VT" on their systems when they have it.