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Author Topic: Should we experiment with google ads on the site for 1 month?  (Read 15539 times)
Stephen66515
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« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2010, 03:07:24 PM »

Idea: Place Google ads, on a hidden section of the website (no main links on any pages, except in maybe a forum post) that way, people who want to donate, but are unable to, for one reason or another, can do so, by clicking a few links?

This wouldn't affect the website in any way, and it wouldn't have to scare off prospective members.
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mouser
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« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2010, 03:23:10 PM »

that goes against all terms of google ads and they would react to that very negatively.

also i think it addresses wrong issue. people who want to donate but can't, are always the people who end up contributing in other ways -- they contribute their time or good karma, etc.  there are always ways to help dc without involving money, and i don't think we need to worry about trying to find new ways for people who *want* to help dc.

the reason ads are taking over the entire web and seem to be underwriting and paying for almost every website in existence, is that they are a way to make money from people completely passively without relying on any good will or intention of the visitor.  it's not a very pleasant concept but it works, largely because it's so simple and requires no action on the part of anyone, and because the annoyance factor is arguably less than most other methods.
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mouser
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« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2010, 03:28:06 PM »

By the way i should say that i raised this question more out of curiosity -- i didn't mean to spark a big conversation about raising money for DC.

We do have our occasional fundraisers which have been doing fine and i think we need to focus on creating more content rather than raising money or getting more members, etc.

I think the last fundraiser went really well.. and maybe if there is any area where we might talk of improving funding and membership in DC, we might be well advised to focus on making the fundraisers more appealing and get the word out about them better.  The fundraisers also just "feel" better to me in terms of raising money -- they stick with the idea of asking people to support the site voluntarily to help create more stuff that they like.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 03:31:51 PM by mouser » Logged
justfarley
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« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2010, 11:41:27 AM »

Where's the simple yes/no vote clicker?
Experiment? YES.
Label it so - CLEARLY. Along with the option out. Let google promote its' ads in such a way that the users here want to see what they're up to (lol), or not.
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Stephen66515
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« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2010, 04:08:15 PM »

Where's the simple yes/no vote clicker?
Experiment? YES.
Label it so - CLEARLY. Along with the option out. Let google promote its' ads in such a way that the users here want to see what they're up to (lol), or not.

Dunno about anybody else, but I didn't quite understand this...

Are you saying you would like to see Ad's on here, but giving the user an option to 'opt-out' of seeing them?
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justfarley
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« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2010, 12:19:59 AM »

Said that also.
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Stephen66515
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« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2010, 07:10:00 PM »

Said that also.

Care to be a little more specific?
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« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2010, 08:16:44 PM »

Sure you can put ads , but I would be blocking anything Google using 5 layers of ad blockers, ad blocking proxy, ip blockers(especially Google Ips) ,script blockers, cookie deleters,java script disablers you name it. As long as blocked content does not mess up the layout. Heck I even use text based browsers to block any kind of ads when I am browsing. I have a thing for ads especially when they are obnoxious or sneaky.

In general I would be sad to see ads here regardless of me blocking them or not.  I dont think that you would make enough out of Google ads too. You earn, .005 google earns 1000. Also ad serving scripts endanger your viewers-users privacy. Everytime you serve an ad to someone you are endangering user privacy and net neutrality.

« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 08:20:30 PM by kartal » Logged
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« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2010, 01:58:16 AM »

Not an unreasonable idea for an experiment, but think about putting it on the back burner for a while. Jan-March is one of the worst times of the year for retail environments. The revenue from ads at this time of year would be skewed to a low amount. Think of some time between June and December; you'll get a clearer picture of the effectiveness and the general level of reaction. imo.
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« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2010, 02:39:52 AM »

This doesn't really go to the issue about whether we should *try* ads on site to experiment with them, but the more i think about it the more sure i am that DonationCoder should never move to an advertising-based site.

There can be no doubt that there are many small indie sites who simply could never have existed without the revenue provided by web adverts, and so i'm in no position to say that they are a bad thing categorically.

But I am troubled by how the entire internet seems to be moving to content funded by advertisements, and I think being funded by voluntary donations from actual users is an entirely different and much more healthy way of existing in the long term.

So as long as we can survive on our donations, and there is absolutely nothing to indicate that we can't for the forseeable long-term future, i think the current model works well for us and see no reason to change it.
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kartal
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« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2010, 11:02:30 AM »

But I am troubled by how the entire internet seems to be moving to content funded by advertisements, and I think being funded by voluntary donations from actual users is an entirely different and much more healthy way of existing in the long term.

Word up.


I also think that web sites should be able to get funding, grants from various institutions.

Google ads is not worth the trouble really. Because of such easy money making sounding ideas many web sites are erected with small content to lure viewers to make couple dollars every month, and in many cases these sites never go further and expand the content because couple dollars extra every month from Gmnakes them happy enough that they seek no further effort to expand the content.
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« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2010, 11:20:40 AM »

I agree with all the things mouser says on the general issue of sites and money and frankly continually astounded (in a good way) by DC and free software in general. Having said that I think a person who is the modern version of a journalist or a software creator can not just hope for donations or institutional or VC support. Donation based is not always a success (believe me I have been involved in more than one case) and financial support mainly goes to the biggest or the most promising (mozilla or twitter for two admittedly big examples)
A small site with relatively low content is not argument against some one who makes a site his 'career'. We have a very good example right here on DC...ghacks
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SKesselman
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« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2010, 12:08:53 PM »

Just curious...why are the only ads being discussed in this thread about Google ads?
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've read the entire thread, and I didn't see anything that said the experiment was about displaying Google ads only.

Judging form the responses, it seems that a very strong concern here is that DC would feel that it would be compromising its identity as the wonderfully unique & skilled, helpful community that it is, or that it might be (understandably) degrading itself by using Google ads.

What about experimenting with ads for companies or sole developers that DC finds reputable, interesting, or educational, and all on topic with computing?
By advertising these types of sites, the overall feeling of the DC admins and members selling advertising here might be "cleaner"?  undecided
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-Sarah
Stephen66515
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« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2010, 02:02:05 PM »

Just curious...why are the only ads being discussed in this thread about Google ads?
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've read the entire thread, and I didn't see anything that said the experiment was about displaying Google ads only.

Read post title..."Should we experiment with google ads on the site for 1 month?"
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cranioscopical
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« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2010, 02:04:11 PM »

Quote from: Sarah
By advertising these types of sites, the overall feeling of the DC admins and members selling advertising here might be "cleaner"?

My own feeling is that, no matter how many disclaimers to the contrary, ads on a web site imply product endorsement by that site.
As I understand it, that's something that DC prefers to avoid.
Reviews by individual members present a slightly different aspect.

Asking software companies to donate product comes awfully close to implied endorsement as well, of course, and I don't see much complaint about the freebies  smiley
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« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2010, 07:59:21 PM »

As a reply to (Stephen) Stephen66515, and to those who probably just ignored what I said, I'll try again:
1."Where's the simple yes/no vote clicker?"
How about inserting a small yes or no vote collector to count how folks respond when they are browsing through the question posed by the topic. That way we'd have a beginning ROUGH count for initial responses.
2. "Experiment? YES."
Sure. Like all good science based enterprises we owe it to ourselves to try an experimental situation as the launch pad for change. Let's do an experiment - but please, it's incumbent upon us to do one mindfully; explicit hypotheses, propositions, determinants, et cetera
3. "Label it so - CLEARLY. Along with the option out."
How about including a way to shut out the ad (and count when the selection is chosen), while at our site. And make the option BIG and easy to see. If that's against Google policy - again, a way to register a no vote for the enterprise.
4."Let google promote its' ads in such a way that the users here want to see what they're up to (lol), or not."
Surely they would propose a set of coherently context dependent ads - not ones for "hot, sex starved " virtuals; but rather those concerned with our ethos -computer related ...  If they paid us to peruse interesting offers for stuff we would look at elsewhere, no harm, no foul - just American Money. These ads would NOT, by the way mean we're endorsing any of the products presented, but we could easily say so explicitly above our experimental package. Major Geek IMHO doesn't do a very good job at it; but they are a pretty good site with a lot to offer - just motivated by some obscure profit margin.

Sorry if my mind speak caused shrugs and rolling eyes; but I really am an old disabled Vietnam Vet laughing at the fact that it took you all 45 years to begin to notice that head trauma and war have a pretty tight correlation coefficient. Hats off to the newly emerging patriotic vets coming home these days. It's still hell, no matter what the folks back home think, or feel.

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Stephen66515
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« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2010, 10:51:29 PM »

Sorry if my mind speak caused shrugs and rolling eyes; but I really am an old disabled Vietnam Vet laughing at the fact that it took you all 45 years to begin to notice that head trauma and war have a pretty tight correlation coefficient. Hats off to the newly emerging patriotic vets coming home these days. It's still hell, no matter what the folks back home think, or feel.

There was no requirement for that information, but I am very sympathetic (I'm ex-RAF {UK}).  I merely questioned your post as I did not understand what you meant.

Quote
As a reply to (Stephen) Stephen66515, and to those who probably just ignored what I said, I'll try again:
1."Where's the simple yes/no vote clicker?"
How about inserting a small yes or no vote collector to count how folks respond when they are browsing through the question posed by the topic.

We don't use vote options as you don't get a true guage of why people have said what they have said.

Quote
2. "Experiment? YES."
Sure. Like all good science based enterprises we owe it to ourselves to try an experimental situation as the launch pad for change. Let's do an experiment - but please, it's incumbent upon us to do one mindfully; explicit hypotheses, propositions, determinants, et cetera

The decision has been made...it was a no.

Quote
3. "Label it so - CLEARLY. Along with the option out."
How about including a way to shut out the ad (and count when the selection is chosen), while at our site. And make the option BIG and easy to see. If that's against Google policy - again, a way to register a no vote for the enterprise.

No point due to above statement.

Quote
4."Let google promote its' ads in such a way that the users here want to see what they're up to (lol), or not."
Surely they would propose a set of coherently context dependent ads - not ones for "hot, sex starved " virtuals; but rather those concerned with our ethos -computer related ...  If they paid us to peruse interesting offers for stuff we would look at elsewhere, no harm, no foul - just American Money. These ads would NOT, by the way mean we're endorsing any of the products presented, but we could easily say so explicitly above our experimental package. Major Geek IMHO doesn't do a very good job at it; but they are a pretty good site with a lot to offer - just motivated by some obscure profit margin.

Google Ads on this website would need to be relevant, but in order to be relevant they would have to advertise other software companies.  This would obviously cause a problem with the fact, the users of Donation Coder promote FOSS (Free Open Source Software) and advertising such companies would be the complete opposite of what we are trying to achieve.

I am all for Donation Coder making a buck or two, but after much deliberation and thought, it is much better if Advertisements of such nature are kept well away from here.


If any type of advertising should be thought about, its specific, and targeted companies, which have been voted for by the Donation Coder team and forum community.


-Stephen
« Last Edit: February 14, 2010, 10:57:23 PM by Stephen66515 » Logged

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« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2010, 06:13:42 PM »

Going through my old newsletters and bringing up a dead thread...

I see previously users could disable the ads if they donated.  And then the suggestion to have anyone disable them.
-= Inverts the box =-
What if users who wanted to support the site, would allow a small Google ad to be part of their post?
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mouser
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« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2010, 06:28:35 PM »

Quote
What if users who wanted to support the site, would allow a small Google ad to be part of their post?

that's definitely an interesting idea.. however i think the reality of web ads, and perhaps this is a dirty little secret of websites that are funded by them, is that they really provide income precisely because they are a way to make money from the millions of irregular anonymous people who end up stopping by a site randomly while searching for things.  hence the obsession with search engine ranking and sites creating and naming content that will come up high in search engines.

so.. as much as it wouldn't hurt to allow hardcore dc supporters to enable ads, it would almost certainly bring in no revenue.  it might be interesting to try it just for fun though..

however, i think we've pretty much decided that ads are not for us.. as long as our members and fans will respond to fundraisers occasionally, we will be fine.
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« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2010, 08:56:28 AM »

I see advertising in most threads here by the things people here recommend.
Those program developers might consider donating as well.
And I'm sure some do.

These ads by users who have these programs, like them and refer us to them.
Without getting paid to say what they say,
just talking about them or what someone else uses and prefers even.
Better then any other ads I have ever seen.
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Steven Avery
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« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2010, 11:50:41 AM »

Hi Folks,

As a one-month learning experience, it is hard to be too upset, however all the caveats are real.  The forums we tend to go to are the ones that are 100% sincere, and with so many tech folks making hidden deals even the appearance of back-deals and influence that ads gives any site is a problem.

I just downloaded the hphosts file to get rid of Paltalk sleaze .. I have not checked if that influences google ads... my crosswalk.com and biblestudytools.com looks weres so lean and minimalist I was almost shocked at how much was blocked. (Probably I will turn of the hosts file for a few hours a week just to know what I am missing.)

One suggestion .. if you do google for a month, imo you really have to use their block on the worst offenders, like uniblue and friends, regcure, etc.  Please add that extra effort into the equation, if you allow one visitor to be sham-wared, when a block would have been easy, it is a real concern.

Google-blocks are allowed up to a point, I understand, but not sure about the first month.  I think one idea is to allow block of direct competitors, but it is lightly used in the real world.  I got involved a while back in encouraging Mozillazine and one or two others to be more active in integrity blocking.

Shalom,
Steven

« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 12:34:38 PM by Steven Avery » Logged
mahesh2k
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« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2010, 02:56:42 PM »

@Mouser,

Google ads are CPC and many of intermediate users have ad-block plus or other ad-blockers so CPC ads will be only clicked by newbies with no ad-blocker script, so not much earning IMO.

Using openx adserver to host your own ads by choosing which product to promote is one good idea(openx is free as well and you can host it on DC server). Choosing to host your own ad server has many benefits. This way you can filter what products to promote and you can charge per impressions CPM or Pay per view model. In this model, you'll generate enough revenue to keep DC going without donations as well cause DC receives large traffic from US/UK/Europe/Asia so CPM rates are high for traffic from these locations. Either static or animated banner ads will work fine in CPM model.
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mouser
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« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2010, 05:40:52 PM »

i think for now this issue is settled, and we won't be placing ads on the site, even as an experiment.  we might set up some strange opt-in for ads system at some point just for those curious about how it would look.
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paarkhi
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« Reply #48 on: May 01, 2010, 08:24:21 AM »

Im Late  Sad
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lanux128
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« Reply #49 on: May 01, 2010, 08:33:20 AM »

Im Late  Sad

hehe.. better late than never. Grin
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