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Last post Author Topic: "New image organizer feedback wanted"  (Read 19707 times)

StCroixSkipper

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"New image organizer feedback wanted"
« on: November 25, 2009, 11:51:55 AM »
I've read the image organizer reviews and I still haven't found anything that does what I need.  I'm a developer so I've written my own.  I've outlined the major features below and I'd appreciate your feedback.  I know there are more good ideas out there and I'd like to hear them.  I've attached a zip file that contains the .exe and a Microsoft interop dll so you can use it, compare it to others you've tried.

I call it 'OverExposure' because I was intimidated trying to track and find specific images with the number of digital images I was taking and people were sending to me. 

I'd like any feedback you may have from ideas to make it more useful to pesky bugs that you'd like fixed to a better name.  Understand that this is a work in progress.  Not all features have been implemented. You may want to challenge design decisions.  This may become a forum where we can discuss design issues in an open peer review setting.  Here is what it does. I'll try to implement suggested new features or changes.

I like the UI of Microsoft's Photo Gallery UI and have reproduced the parts I like.  The concept is like the light tables we used to sort 35 mm slides updated with all of our digital technology. The left pane is a TreeView with folders where images are stored, keywords, and publishing destinations like iPod, FaceBook, YouTube, and Flickr. The right pane displays the thumbnails of the images in the selected folder.  You can adjust the size of the thumbnails with a slider.  You can select and drag thumbnail images from from the left pane and drop them onto folders, keywords or publishing destinations.  If you drop a thumbnail image on a folder, the image is moved to the new folder.  If you drop a thumbnail image onto a keyword, the keyword is added to the image's metadata.  If you drop a thumbnail image onto a publishing destination, it would 'publish' the image to the site.

If you double click on a thumbnail image, the left pane shows the fullsize picture along with all of the image's metadata.

To search for a specific image or images I use the Desktop Search Engine.  Image files are read by the 'Indexer' which chooses a filter based on the file type to access the metadata. To search for images based on image metadata, you need to ensure that the folders which contain your digital images are included in the folders that the 'indexer' is watching.  You can control the folders the 'indexer' is watching using the 'Indexing Options' member of the 'Control Panel'.

(Note: Publishing images to 'publish' destinations is not yet implemented.  Support for music and video files is not yet implemented. I will make these features available as they become defined and implemented.)

Here are the things I've done differently.

1. The folder icons are graphics that tell you if there are images and/or audio and/or video files in the folder.  You can visually tell if you have a) photos only, b) photos and music, c) photos and videos, d) photos, music and videos, e) music only, f) video only or g) music and video files. (I look into the folders as you open them to see what kinds of files it contains and choose which folder icon to display.)

2. Photo Gallery only lets easily you look in "special" folders like "My Pictures" or "My Videos" by default.  You can look in other folders by "adding" additional folders that reside anywhere on your system. I let you see and navigate to all my drives both fixed and removable along with your special folders.  You can plug your camera into a USB port and see the photos directly from the camera. You can drag and drop thumbnails from your camera directly onto existing or new folders you've created.

3. I hate the P1010485.jpg names my camera gives image files.  When you drag one or more selected thumbnails from the left pane to a folder, it not only moves the image file to the new folder but it renames the file to the folder name with a unique suffix (_1.jpg).  Then it updates the image metadata by removing the keyword that contains the old image file's folder name and adds the new folder name as a keyword to the metadata. If you give folders descriptive names, images are instantly searchable.

4.  If you rename a folder, it will create a new folder with the new folder name. It removes the old folder name from the image metadata keywords.  And it adds the new folder's name as a keyword in the metadata. Renaming folders allows you to instantly change the metadata for all the image files in a folder and updates the Destop Search Index.

5.  Photo Gallery only lets you add keywords (or tags in Photo Gallery), modify Rating and specify a title.  I expose and allow you to edit Title, Keywords, DateTaken, Author, Subject, Rating, Comment and Copyright metadata fields.  I also show you which camera was used to take the picture.

6. I don't like the way Photo Gallery lets you remove tags.  You need to select them and then get a context menu and select the only option: "Remove Tag".  I show you the metadata fields in text.  When you fly over the text with the mouse, I make the text editable so you can quickly make any changes you want.  Keywords are shown together separated by semacolons.  Double click on a word to select the entire word.  'Control-a' selects all the text in the metadata field.  The delete key removes it or you can start typing over it.  Ctrl-z undoes the previous action.   

7. My wife and friends are always sending me pictures taken when their cameras have bad Date and Time values set.  I allow you to change the date and time the images were taken so when you sort by DateTaken you'll see the photos in the order they were taken.

7.  When you drag one or more thumbnails onto a tag, Photo Gallery applies the tag as a keyword to the metadata of all images selected.  I do the same but I've changed the name 'tag' to 'keyword' and added a check box to each tag. You can check one or more keywords and then drag one or more thumbnails onto a keyword.  The keyword onto which the image or images were dropped and all the 'checked' keywords will be added to the metadata of each image file.

8. I've also divided up the keywords or tags into categories.  The initial categories are 'Events', 'People', 'Places' and 'Things'.  But you can create new categories or change the names of categories or delete categories and organize them any way you like.

9. I have trouble find my photos in Photo Gallery.  It gives me the filename but not the full path in many cases.  I have thousands of photos.  I hate struggling to find them.  I display the full path of each file with the metadata.

10. Many times I want to do more than just "Auto Adjust", "Adjust Exposure", "Adjust Color", "Crop Picture", or "Fix Red Eye".  I have an Edit menu option which brings up GIMP if it is installed so I can really manipulate the image.  I could as easily bring up another photo editting application like PhotoShop but it costs hundreds of dollars for much the same functionality. GIMP is OpenSource and free.

11. I use the desktop Search Engine to find images that match a certain criteria just like Photo Gallery.

12. I really want to support video and music files.  I'm working on these now. The folders show whether they contain audio or video but I haven't written the code to display and play them yet.

13.  I want to be able to publish photos to destinations like my FaceBook account or to Flickr or YouTube or to my iPod.  There may be other destinations I need to support.
 

14. I don't organize the photos by date taken yet but I will.  I've done it before and its easy.

In the next post, I'll show some screen shots of the application as it now stands.

Note.  I've used this on my desktop which is a 32-bit quad processor with 3 gb of memory running Vista.  I've also installed this on my laptop which is a 64-bit dual processor with 4 gb of memory running Vista.  To use OverExposure simply copy the OverExposure.exe and the freely redistributable Microsoft.Search.Interop.dll to a folder and double click on OverExposure.exe.

This is the first time I've tried attachments so we'll see if this works.

rgdot

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Re: "New image organizer feedback wanted"
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2009, 12:25:03 PM »
Quote
If you drop a thumbnail image on a folder, the image is moved to the new folder
and 4.

are really good ideas as long as the user is explicitly told every time how and what is happening

9. Is a time saver

Will be trying it now, thanx

40hz

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Re: "New image organizer feedback wanted"
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2009, 12:40:41 PM »
No joy for me, I'm afraid. It hangs on startup. :)

Got this first try:

errorrep01.gif

And this second try:

errorrep03.gif




« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 12:42:28 PM by 40hz »

rgdot

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Re: "New image organizer feedback wanted"
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2009, 12:44:26 PM »
Same as 40hz when I tried it, the accompanying error report content is big, I am currently trying to capture the content as it does not create a temp file (that I can see in such places like local settings, etc.)

StCroixSkipper

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Re: "New image organizer feedback wanted"
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2009, 12:53:09 PM »
It requires .Net 3.5 because it uses WPF for the UI.  3.5 is also required for some of the WIC calls.

StCroixSkipper

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Re: "New image organizer feedback wanted"
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2009, 01:04:27 PM »
As promised, here are some screen shots of the application in use.

This is what you see when the application starts. You can see the folder icons used to indicate there are picture, music or video files in the folder.  The folder icons that show combinations of files are composites of these three.
[attach=#1][/attach]

If you select a folder, thumbnails of the images in the folder are displayed in the left pane. In order to save memory, I only decode the bits needed to display the thumbnails.  I don't use the thumb.db files because it makes the 'mouse flyover' display of the larger image performance unpredictable.  I also don't use the thumbnails generated by the camera since the thumbnail might not be present and the quality of the thumbnail is unpredictable.  I create my own thumbnail using only the pixel I need to display a quality thumbnail using the minimum of memory.
[attach=#2][/attach]

You can modify the size of the thumbnails to see more or less detail in the images.
[attach=#3][/attach]
[attach=#4][/attach]

If you position the mouse over a thumbnail, I show a much larger image in a popup window.  I don't just enlarge the thumbnail, I re-decode the image to present a quality picture in the space provided. I display some but not all of the metadata available with the photo.
[attach=#5][/attach]

If you double click on a thumbnail image, you see a fullsize image in the left pane along with all of the image's metadata.  I only support the "Title", "DateTaken", "Keywords", "Author", "Subject", "Rating", "Comment", "Copyright" and "Camera Model" metadata fields.  I could get it all but these are the ones I use.  
[attach=#6][/attach]

You can either click on the metadata field to edit it or simply place the mouse over the text of the metadata field and start typing.  I position the cursor at the end of the text.  Keywords are separated by commas or semicolons (commas seem to be easier to type for me.)  These text field support 'undo' or control-z, double click select a single word, control-a selects all of the text, etc.  When the mouse moves off the metadata field or you hit carriage return or tab, I check to see if the text has changed.  If it has, I submit the image file to a background thread to update the metadata with the changes you've made.
[attach=#7][/attach]

StCroixSkipper

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Re: "New image organizer feedback wanted"
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2009, 02:29:14 PM »
I got a lot of hits when I googled EventType clr20r3.  Most of the solutions appear to be installing the correct version of .Net.

here is one I found...
This message appears when attempting to install TurboTax:

TurboTax installer has encountered a problem and needs to close
EventType: clr20r3

The event type code might vary slightly, for example clr20r3t1.

A similar message with this error code can also occur when starting (opening) TurboTax.

Solution
This may be caused by damaged .NET files.


To resolve this, try repairing and/or reinstalling the .NET Framework.

I haven't written an installer for this app yet which would compare the level of .Net installed with that required and take you to the website to download and install the correct version.  It's easy to do but I change the code so frequently, I hate to 'uninstall' and then 're-install' each time.  If that would make things easier, I'll do it.

JavaJones

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Re: "New image organizer feedback wanted"
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2009, 02:35:47 PM »
I think this has a lot of potential and I'm glad you decided to share it with us. My one question is, given its evidently very personal nature (e.g. "I only show these metatags because they are what I use), are you really wanting feedback like "I use other tags, can you add them?" and if not, what kind of feedback are you looking for? Forgive me if the answer to this is implicit in your posting this and asking for feedback from an open community (e.g. you want any and all feedback). I just wanted to make sure I didn't evaluate it from an unrealistic standpoint.

That question aside, I think this presents some interesting ideas, and I'd love to see it evolve further. So if you're interested in evolving this app into something of general use for many, I think there is a real possibility of this becoming great.

- Oshyan

StCroixSkipper

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Re: "New image organizer feedback wanted"
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2009, 02:47:42 PM »
As you probably know, there are many other metadata fields and even several strategies for metadata.  I'm using the easiest fields to access now.  But I've accessed all the EXIF fields before and have code that allows me to display those defined and to update them. 

To answer your questions, I'm interested in any and all feedback.  If there are other fields that are popular, that you want to see feel free to suggest I support them.  If there are enough requests, I'll add them in.  But when you suggest them, I'd also like some context.  For instance, "I'd like to see the Lat/Long of an image that is recorded by my new digital camera.  Well, I'd like to know if you are an hobbyist or professional or semi-professional photographer and how you use this information. 

I'm a hobbyist.  I'd like to see the camera settings for some images especially the bad ones.

Also, as you've seen in the replies to this subject, the fact that it works on my machine(s) doesn't mean it will work out of the box on yours.  I'd like to know any and all of the problems you experience.

rgdot

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Re: "New image organizer feedback wanted"
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2009, 02:51:29 PM »
I have .NET 3.5 installed

tomos

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Re: "New image organizer feedback wanted"
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2009, 03:09:36 PM »
I dont have net 3.5 (yet) so havent installed

# 10. can you just allow user to put in path to their external editor ? (maybe that's what you had in mind, but, just in case - I reckon this would be important to lots of people)
Tom

40hz

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Re: "New image organizer feedback wanted"
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2009, 03:20:10 PM »
To resolve this, try repairing and/or reinstalling the .NET Framework.

I had a slow day so I gave it a try. (.NET 3.5-SP1 was already installed BTW. :) )

1) Downloaded fresh copy of the installer from Microsoft

2) Ran the installer and selected repair option. - No good. Same lockup with your app.

3) Did a complete uninstall/reboot/new install. - Still no good.

I'm running XP-SP3 on an Athlon-64 w/1.5Gb RAM for this test. I have several other apps on this machine that require .NET 3.5 SP-1, and they're all working fine.

Luck! :Thmbsup:



JavaJones

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Re: "New image organizer feedback wanted"
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2009, 03:30:52 PM »
I'm at work so I can't try the app, but my two most immediate pieces of feedback, from knowing my workflow with other apps (which I am also not yet satisfied with!) are:

First, make #3, auto-rename of files when moved, totally optional. I like preserving the names of my files, even though they are cryptic, because they are my originals. Only once I finish editing an image do I bother changing its name. I use the folder name for a more descriptive organizational tool, as well as meta data.

Second, I don't use GIMP, though I think it's a good option. So I agree with Tomos, it needs an easy way to specify an alternative app to open with.

Other than that I'm really looking forward to trying this. It looks like a great, quick way to tag and organize.

P.S. Question: does it support RAW image formats yet?

- Oshyan

StCroixSkipper

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Re: "New image organizer feedback wanted"
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2009, 03:34:04 PM »
I remember I had trouble installing OverExposure on my daughters computer.  It said it had .Net 3.5.  To resolve the problem I downloaded the latest .Net 3.5 and uninstalled the old version and re-installed the new.

StCroixSkipper

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Re: "New image organizer feedback wanted"
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2009, 03:49:36 PM »
Tomos,
All I do is launch the gimp executable with a commandline argument of the file name.  Gimp uses the file name as the file to open. 

I'm not sure if PhotoShop supports similar commandline input...?  But for those apps that do, I can simply look for their executables and launch them.

If they don't support the commanline input parameter of an image file, I can easily let the user specify the path to the executable and launch it.


Java Jones,
I always change the filenames now and I always add the directory name as the first keyword.  But I can easily make that optional.  Something like a dialog box with a checkbox that says don't show this again...

I don't support raw formats. 
I'm using BitmapEncoder and BitmapDecoder from the WIC functions.  They allow me to access the the easy metadata easily. 

I know that jpeg is a 'lossy' format.  And each time you encode a jpeg file you change the pixel bits that make up the picture.  Since I want to change the metadata and not the image bits, I've looked everywhere for functions that will let me change the metadata and just supply the image bits, but no luck.

I also would like to be able to identify identical images or duplicates on a machine.  Ideally, I would compute an MD5 digest on the image bits and store it in the database.  But I'd need an encoder that allows me to specify the image bits with the new metadata bits and not re-encode the image bits.

40hz

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Re: "New image organizer feedback wanted"
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2009, 04:13:22 PM »
I remember I had trouble installing OverExposure on my daughters computer.  It said it had .Net 3.5.  To resolve the problem I downloaded the latest .Net 3.5 and uninstalled the old version and re-installed the new.

@StCroixSkipper - Did that:

3) Did a complete uninstall/reboot/new install. - Still no good.

It just might be this particular box I'm testing it on so I'll give it a try on a different machine when I get a chance.

Have a great Thanksgiving Day tomorrow! :)


JavaJones

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Re: "New image organizer feedback wanted"
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2009, 04:14:42 PM »
I do think the renaming should be optional. The auto-renaming is a nice feature for a lot of people I think, similar to what the default Windows camera transfer system does, but it's not always desirable, especially for more "professional" users.

You could add RAW support with DCRAW and/or LibRAW if you want. They're free, DCRAW is the source of functionality for both, but LibRAW exposes it in a more friendly library I think. I would definitely suggest supporting RAW format as it will make the app a lot more attractive to a wider audience (like meee! hehe).

For even broader format support you might consider using the GFL SDK from the maker of XnView, and/or FreeImage, both of which might also incidentally help with the EXIF problem below.

If you're not doing lossless EXIF changes now, I honestly think this is a huge problem and you should have a warning whenever you change EXIF data in an image. Repeated JPEG saving can do horrible things to files. I'm not sure if that's actually what you're doing though. Unless you're actually re-encoding the JPG when you save, it may already be working correctly. But this should definitely be verified as it's vital for maintaining long-term image quality. Here's an example of what can happen with repeated JPEG saving: http://www.impulsead...o/jpeg-resaving.html
I know there are ways to change *just* the EXIF data. Definitely something to look into and resolve ASAP IMO.

As for dupe checking, there is another project somewhere here on DC for this. You might consider teaming up for this part of the functionality, or just calling the other app when needed.

It's already looking pretty cool though, and I really appreciate that you made this public for all of us to play with. :)

- Oshyan
« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 04:21:40 PM by JavaJones »

StCroixSkipper

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Re: "New image organizer feedback wanted"
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2009, 04:22:40 PM »
I have found an XP system I tried to run OverExposure on and was able to reproduce the same error.  It has .Net 3.5 SP 1 installed.  

I thought it might be the WIC functions causing this but according to the documentation, WIC is part of .Net 3.0.  I tried downloading the WIC and installing it but I got the message that "a newer version was already installed."

I put a try/catch block around the code in the constructor and tried it again.  I don't catch this exception.

I think it must be a library I'm using that comes with Vista but not with XP.

rgdot

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Re: "New image organizer feedback wanted"
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2009, 04:23:57 PM »
I will give it a try on another machine as well. FYI this machine has the latest .NET, if you meant re-installing .NET I will do that later as well.

Saw your XP issue post while typing.

StCroixSkipper

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Re: "New image organizer feedback wanted"
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2009, 04:31:31 PM »
*** Warning ***
OverExposure re-encodes BitmapImage each time it modifies the metadata.   Since I make it really easy to modify the metadata, this occurs alot.

I've actually accessed the pixel bits separately and calculated MD5 digests on just the pixel bits.  After changing the metadata, they are different.  This is a known problem with the jpeg format.

It could be solved by writing another encoder that simply encodes the metadata but preserves the pixel bits.

Also, until i resolve it, OverExposure doesn't appear to work on XP systems.  The error occurs before my code is executed.  (I've put a try/catch block around the code in the constructor and I don't catch the error.)

StCroixSkipper

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Re: "New image organizer feedback wanted"
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2009, 10:45:07 AM »
I cobbled together a machine and installed XP on it.  I can easily reproduce the error.  Here is what I did to resolve it.

Problem: I use the Desktop search engine thru the Microsoft.Search.Interop.dll.  The problem occurs when I try to load the dll.

Resolution: Install Windows Search 4.0
Here is the link.  http://www.microsoft...spx?tab=Install%20It

I ran the install on my 'new' XP machine, double clicked on OverExposure.exe and it work.

StCroixSkipper

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Re: "New image organizer feedback wanted"
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2009, 07:19:49 PM »
JavaJones,

I took your advice.  I've made the renaming of files optional.  I've added a dialog box that appears when you drop thumbnails onto a folder.  It informs you, by default, OverExposure renames the file using the directory name as the prefix.  If you don't want that behavior, uncheck the 'Rename File(s)' checkbox.

There is also another 'Don't show this dialog box again' checkbox that you can check to avoid answering the question each time.

The reset back to the defaults of Rename File(s) and show the dialog box is in the folder context menu.

Someone else asked that I allow moving and copying of files (when you drag and drop thumbnails on to a folder.)  I've implemented copy too.  Simply hold down the left or right control keys when you drag thumbnails.


Someone else asked that they be able to delete thumbnails from the thumbnail view.  I've implemented that also.  I added a context menu with a 'Delete' menu item to each thumbnail.

JavaJones

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Re: "New image organizer feedback wanted"
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2009, 09:53:32 PM »
Great, thanks for the quick adjustments. I'll give it a shot after Thanksgiving now that I know I ned to have Windows Search installed. :D

- Oshyan

40hz

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Re: "New image organizer feedback wanted"
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2009, 06:24:37 PM »
Resolution: Install Windows Search 4.0

Not gonna do that. Sorry.

I had too many bad experiences with Search 4.0 under XP to want to chance going back there.

I'll just test your app on a Win7 box if you don't mind. ;) ;D


StCroixSkipper

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Re: "New image organizer feedback wanted"
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2009, 01:08:00 PM »
40hz,
I'm  interested in the problems you had with Search 4.0. Is anyone else experiencing problems with Search 4.0?

I'll make a new copy available later this week for anyone who is interested.