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Last post Author Topic: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.  (Read 70093 times)

superboyac

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Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« on: October 01, 2009, 02:13:50 AM »
I'm beginning to see that there is something inherently wrong with the Windows OS.  It's not just specific things about XP, or Vista, or even Win 7 (which I haven't tried yet).  It's about issues with Windows that are not getting solved, and I don't think will get solved anytime soon.  By the way, I am speaking from a application/user standpoint, not about specifics and technical stuff.  I know there are several other threads talking about the under-the-hood improvements of Windows 7 and stuff.  That's not what this is about.  This is about something bigger, something more general.

Now, what started this for me is the following:  I built my computer in January (you can see the thread here).  For all practical purposes, this computer is a beast.  There should be nothing that it can't do that I would want to do.  I'm talking about music applications, office applications, and a bunch of little software here and there.  Actually, it is way overkill for anything like that.  Speed and performance should not be an issue.  Ever.  Don't even try to tell me otherwise.  Yesterday, I started using Photoshop on my computer.  I made a big file, like 4000x4000 pixels.  Still, my computer should handle it easily.  I started doing stuff, and there was a noticeable lag on it, like a ghosting effect when things were dragged around.  Forget about that, that's not the point.  The point is that I should not be experiencing any sort of performance issue doing that on my computer.  It was somewhat solved with an update.  Again, that's not the point.  I can think of several other things that are related to performance and speed issues that leave me wondering because I know for sure that my computer technically has the power to handle it and 100x more.

I talked to a guy at work today about Photoshop.  Photoshop runs much more flawlessly on the Mac and that's what everyone uses there.  Now, i know some of you are thinking we can get it working fine on a PC.  But that's not the point either.  Over the years, I've had to spend a lot of time and energy becoming a Windows expert so that I can fix all these problems.  Well, the truth is that the commercials are right.  Macs just work.  Believe me, I'm the most die-hard PC guy there can be.  I love my little programs here.  You guys know this if you've read anything I've put here.  I'm hardcore.  I can't live without my Windows programs.  But I'm growing up, I'm changing, I'm doing different things with my life.

Now here is what I've noticed recently.  And please, I want to emphasize again that this is not a technical discussion, but more of a sociological one:
When Windows came out with Vista, it was a disaster.  Things started changing.  The Mac started to surge.  I don't mean things you read in articles, I mean I've seen this in my personal life.  I've seen more than a handful of my friends and family switch from PC to MAC in the last year.  And they are very happy about it.  Guess what?  All the young, student age workers that I know got Mac laptops in the past year.  Why?  They look good, they work without fussing around with it, and everything that it does is COOL.  We make fun of those things because we here are very practical minded geeks, but even I have to admit that everything the Macs do are really, really cool.  I was actually very impressed by their new touchpads, with their large size and awesome multi-finger features.  Why didn't PC's come up with anything like that for years and years?  In fact, Dell's touchpad has gotten progressively worse as the years have gone by.  Anyway, all the kids have Macs and they're using them in their classes and lives.  Guess what is going to happen?  They are going to get jobs, and they are going to want to use Macs.  Companies may resist for a while, but the demand will build.  Then, the workplace (which is monopolized by Windows right now) will start shifting to Mac.  Once that market gets big enough, Windows will be in real trouble.  That's their bread and butter--the workplace.

A PC is such a pain in the ass to use and get it running smoothly.  Very few people have the ability, patience, and willpower to do it.  We're not the norm here.  Someone like me who knows so much about using Windows is very, very rare in my workplace and industry.  The problem is that if you're not like me or us here, you WILL run into issues with the PC.  Constantly.  Our graphics department told me they could not use PC's for what they do (all that video, photo editing) unless they had an IT guy camped right in the middle of their offices.  That's how much of a pain it is.  One guy told me that he was even more die-hard PC user than I am and he switched over to Mac and never looked back.  In fact, his wife will attest that his LIFE dramatically changed when he switched to Macs.  This is no exaggeration.  This guy does video, audio, photo editing day and night.  He lives in it.  At some point, you just have to throw the towel in.

Let's talk about those IT guys, if it weren't for all the Windows issues, I bet we would need them only half as much.  I don't mean managing the servers and all that behind the scenes stuff.  I mean helping all the people who run into a little issue here and there.  More often that not, they place an undue amount of restrictions on our PC's because they just don't want to deal with everyone's problems anymore, and they say it's for security reasons.  But that's not really the solution.  The problem is that Windows runs into problems way too easily and way too often.

I'm not saying I'm switching to Macs right now.  But I feel it coming.  How much longer do I want to keep tweaking my PC and keeping up with all the options and little solutions to the dozens of programs that I like to use?  I love it on one hand, but it's a lot of effort and time on the other.  What if I don't quite love it so much anymore?  What if I don't have as much time for it?  I'm already sick of having to fix all my family and friends' problems.  Actually, I've stopped offering my help for the most part the last few years.  I just do it in real emergencies (or if I like a girl, ha!).  My dad is afraid to do anything remotely adventurous on his laptop because he doesn't want to annoy me by calling me for computer help.  So he has this real nice laptop and all he does is use Outlook, Word, Excel, and browse the internet.  He will literally not do anything else.  It's sad.  And all because he's run into a few little issues here and there in the past, and I've had to fix it by spending a few minutes on it.  There are a lot of people like that.  Mac users are not like that.  They are quite content in a very non-PC user kind of way.

So that's it.  I think the Mac wave is coming.  Vista sucked.  The young people switched to Macs.  These people will eventually influence the workplace.  Slowly, the workplace will start using Macs.  Windows may start dying slowly.

jgpaiva

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2009, 04:47:16 AM »
I can't talk for someone who has moved to mac. However, I have moved to Ubuntu last year, and at the time I thought it was great.
Actually, I thought it was great just until I installed 7 in my laptop.
When I tried it, I really regretted that I had moved to Ubuntu. Unfortunately, it's too late to go back right now.
7 may be coming just a bit too late, but I think it'll be a really good way of keeping people from going mac.

However, I may really soon switch to mac at my workplace, for 2 reasons: easy to inter-operate with linux, and WAY better than windows for my line of work (programming/constantly working on Unix servers, etc) - it's still worse than Ubuntu for working, but ubuntu really gets on my nerves too often than I'd like it to.

f0dder

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2009, 06:28:12 AM »
Ah yes, "macs just work" - until they don't, and then you're screwed. Like, something as simple as doing a backup to an external devices freezes the machine completely (so much for OS X being stable) - your only option is hardbooting, at which point the mac refuses to boot. After going into safe mode, it decides that wiping your entire filesystem is a good idea.

I think it would be fun if OS X got a lot more marketshare, though. With enough power users on the system, things would start breaking at least as much as it does on Windows, hopefully shutting some of the mac fagnbois up. Oh, and with enough marketshare, it would be a lot more interesting to write malware for the platform, and utilize some of those wonderful kernel and userland flaws that OS X has - that might finally shut up some of the "OS X is so much more safe than Windows" cluetards :)
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mrainey

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2009, 07:13:23 AM »
Being COOL is not high on my list of priorities.   :)
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tomos

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2009, 07:45:01 AM »
re photoshop:
could it be a software issue? - what with Photoshop being sold to so many amatuer photographers (I suspect they're it's biggest market these days) you'd think Adobe would make it work properly on windows machines.

it certainly used to be true that graphics software was designed for the mac (and vice-versa maybe?*) with windows versions being more of an afterthought.
* graphics apps used work on macs with much lower specs than were necessary on windows machines - but I think that's all in the past now.. unfortunately though, I suspect they still often treat windows versions as second class apps

And then there's the CONTROL that macs have on the hardware aspect of things - there's pros & cons there.
I think a problem with custom built compared to macs (or any quality pre-made machine) is that the mix of parts arent tested on any scale in the custom computer...
Tom

Darwin

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2009, 08:07:31 AM »
Oddly, moving to Vista is what provided me with the kind of experience you are describing for people who moved to OSX - I more or less just use my computer now and don't worry about all of the tweaking that I used to do to 3.11, 95, 98SE, 2000 and XP. I'm looking forward to giving Windows 7 a whirl because if it is half as much an improvement over Vista as it is touted as being, it will be a killer. Vista proved to be that big an improvement over XP for me.

PS my parents plague me with their issues with OSX...
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

Paul Keith

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2009, 09:37:42 AM »
This is a weird topic. People moving from Windows to OSX and liking it seems so overstated nowadays I expected this to be a topic of someone moving from Mac back to Windows because of all the price nuances/limitations/troubleshooting and the constant need to buy Apple products.

Btw ironically enough, I feel that Linux's time is coming. Linux Mint is coming around well. Few screw-ups whenever Ubuntu changes directions but so far the day of the copy-paste distroes for newbs seems to be getting slimmer and slimmer.

Photoshop is also starting to be less necessary. There may be a time that the confusing interface of GIMP could be dropped in favor of combinations of applications. Manga Studio for example is bad at colors but can handle more layers than Photoshop. Corel Painter, much easier interface for newbies to grasp I think. Paint.net much lighter than Photoshop. Toon Boom much suited for motion comics based on what I've seen.

Note that I'm not even a newbie to Photoshop and I don't understand it but from what I've read, Photoshop is becoming less and less an app for hobbyist except for the multitude of tutorials it supports.

If an art following can even touch the Linux community, there may be someone with the guts to rip out the guts from GIMP and provide it as separate complementary apps akin to a suite. That alone combined with an improving Linux could be a god send. Hell, the lack of games could even be perceived as a productivity bonus.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2009, 09:45:20 AM by Paul Keith »

Lashiec

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2009, 09:40:01 AM »
Hey, hey, your computer was built to handle minor photo editing, so don't complain about slowness when you're trying to edit huge pictures :P

Graphics are slow to handle by nature. Whether is a Mac or a PC. Now, if you tell me you are using a pre-CS4 version of Photoshop, and the guy you talked with is using CS4, there you have your explanation as CS4 uses GPU acceleration while CS3 and earlier have to rely on the CPU. And the difference GPU acceleration can make is HUGE, you just have to check picture browsing with XnView or IrfanView vs. doing it with FastPictureViewer.

In the case both computers are using the same version, I would pinpoint problems with your installation as the culprit more than differences in how both OS operate. Which would mean I somehow agree with you on the problems with Windows :D

A PC is such a pain in the ass to use and get it running smoothly.  Very few people have the ability, patience, and willpower to do it.  We're not the norm here.

Is it? How so? Installing Windows and the software I use doesn't seem that painful to me. Configuring it is another story, but that's a chore here, there and everywhere.

Quote
Someone like me who knows so much about using Windows is very, very rare in my workplace and industry.  The problem is that if you're not like me or us here, you WILL run into issues with the PC.  Constantly.

And that's because people don't listen and do whatever they want in the computer, and then shit happens. And when it happens they blame Windows, instead of putting the blame on themselves. I know it's a tired cliché, but it's the truth. OS X gets a free ride because of so little malware targeting it and significantly more obscure tweaking options, but like f0dder says it's a just a matter of time for OS X to reach critical mass (in the USA, though), and problems to pop up everywhere.

Oh, and frankly, I run into many more issues in my PC due to my own actions than because of Windows' own operations. Mostly it's because of my old habits of micromanaging the system, something that was necessary with limited computing resources and a more crash-prone OS, but useless with XP. I'm not even talking about Windows 7, which will hopefully kill these old habits.

Quote
My dad is afraid to do anything remotely adventurous on his laptop because he doesn't want to annoy me by calling me for computer help.

How you define "adventurous" in this context?

Quote
Mac users are not like that.  They are quite content in a very non-PC user kind of way.

So there's a PC way and a Mac way to be content, and you tell me they're completely different? And can you be content if you use a Mac laptop and a desktop PC, like a friend of mine does? Sorry if all of this bothers you in any way, but I'm kinda interested in your assertion, and I'd like you to explain it.

Quote
So that's it.  I think the Mac wave is coming.  Vista sucked.  The young people switched to Macs.  These people will eventually influence the workplace.  Slowly, the workplace will start using Macs.  Windows may start dying slowly.

Damn, I missed the train. I skipped Vista, and didn't switch to the Mac (I'm still young, right?). To be fair, the newest MacBooks are damn good pieces of hardware, but I can't get myself to blow more than 1000 € in a laptop when those sexy ultraportables are starting to fill the shops.

Being COOL is not high on my list of priorities.   :)

Well, well, it would be the first in my list of priorities if having a Mac helped with summer heat. /hides

Innuendo

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2009, 10:20:06 AM »
superboyac, lots of good replies before mine, but I hope you manage to make it through them all and read this one.

Think very hard about what you are wanting to do. Every computing platform has its troubles and the Mac is no different. You will be trading one set of problems for another. Usually, the enthusiasm levels of Mac users is so great that the problems OS X has get lost in the hub-bub of all the cheerleading going on.

Yes, video and photo editing are a great experience on the Mac. It should be as the Mac has always been the tool used by video & photo editors since way back when the Mac first came out. There's been a lot of innovation in this area & the best programs in this area usually come out on the Mac first and then later on the PC if at all. And this brings me to Adobe. Historically, PhotoShop has been coded and released on the Mac first and then ported for release on the PC. I think this last version of PhotoShop was the first to ever release on the PC first, but there's still a lot of ported coded in there slowing things down.

Once you leave this area of software development for the Mac the landscape changes a lot. Where there was a wealth of software choices in the video and photo editing areas there's a decided dearth of choices in a lot of different areas (but not all). There's a lot of software I use (Total Commander, mp3tag, Newsbin Pro, AnyDVD, foobar2000, and others) that have forums full of messages from Mac users pleading for a port of that program as nothing on the Mac platform is as powerful & easy to use or in the case of AnyDVD, doesn't exist at all on the Mac platform.

Now let's talk about the OS for a bit. OS X is slow. It's not lumbering slow, but it is slower than any version of Windows on the same hardware, including Vista. Yes, even the Microsoft OS that everyone mocks for its slow speed is faster than OS X. Mac users will tell you that it's not a race and that they don't need blazing speed for the tasks they do because it's all about the user experience and not about the speed in which tasks are accomplished, but I have a hunch that if you spent most of your OP discussing how you like things being slow that the Mac users' reason for the slowness of OS X is going to carry much weight with you.

OS X is not perfect and I don't know if they have fixed this 'feature' or not, but I just found this out and I was shocked. As recently as Leopard (don't know if it was fixed in Snow Leopard or not, but I haven't heard that it was, so....) if you moved a directory named, say....Bob that was on Hard Drive A to Hard Drive B and that drive also had a directory of the same name OS X replaces Hard Drive B's Bob and all its contents with Hard Drive A's Bob and all that's contents. Yep...that's right. You just lost data. Where Windows will happily merge the two directories and ask you when there's a filename conflict OS X assumes you want to replace the directory and its contents. There are other fun 'features' of OS X besides this one that you have to discover on your own because Mac users are too busy extolling the virtues of their OS over Windows.

Finally, let's talk about computer trouble. Every OS crashes & I have seen some spectacular crashes on Windows, Linux, and even OS X. With Windows you can check the registry, uninstall programs, repair the OS, reinstall the OS, and if there's a hardware problem run to the store and buy what you need. With OS X, you can uninstall programs, repair the OS, reinstall the OS, or take it to a service center. There aren't many user-serviceable parts on a Mac. They are almost like an appliance.

Just do your research, but don't buy a Mac because of what Mac users tell you. It's been my experience they never talk about a bug or problem with Macs or OSX until after it's been fixed. It happened with the move to the Intel platform. It happened when the Macs finally got pre-emptive multi-tasking. And it's happened countless other times.

If after you do all your research you still decide a Mac is for you. Buy one and make the most of it. Enjoy it to the fullest.

Lashiec

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2009, 10:29:50 AM »
Just do your research, but don't buy a Mac because of what Mac users tell you. It's been my experience they never talk about a bug or problem with Macs or OSX until after it's been fixed. It happened with the move to the Intel platform. It happened when the Macs finally got pre-emptive multi-tasking. And it's happened countless other times.

That it's something I completely agree with. Wise words, indeed.

superboyac

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2009, 10:53:44 AM »
So many well thought out replies.  Sorry if I don't get to all of them!

Innuendo, there's no change coming any time soon...like in the next 5 years.  I just built my PC, I'm going to go down with the ship if anything.  I also realize that much of the hoopla around both Vista, Macs, and even Windows7 is extremist hype.  The truth is always more complicated and somewhere in the middle.  I know that.  And I will always want to get down and dirty with the geekiness before commiting to any kind of computer equipment and software.  After all, that's what brought me here to DC and it's something we all share.  But we are the minority.  And whenever we talk about, "oh, this is better, and that is not so good.  And this is why..." we should take a step back and be aware that most people are not in our shoes and they never will be.  So if something "just works" or even if they just BELIEVE that something just works, well, that's what they are going to get.  And we can't ignore that.

Of course macs have their fair share of issues.  Also, I'm sure that if there were as many Mac users as PC users, their issues would increase exponentially and they might actually be in the same situation that Windows is in.  It's a complex issue.  But I have seen in the past year or two that Macs have really made some strong strides forward as Windows failed miserably with Vista.  To me, it's very interesting to see how the whole story will play out.  In the meantime, I'll be using my PC.  I can't give up my favorite software applications just yet or anytime in the near future.  But in 10 years?  i don't know.  I guess for me, the question is really this:  will I someday give up this need to figure out and tweak every little aspect of my computer experience?  If i do indeed give it up, my choice in computers will change.  But that is so far away, so who knows what my preference will be then?

superboyac

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2009, 10:54:25 AM »
Just do your research, but don't buy a Mac because of what Mac users tell you. It's been my experience they never talk about a bug or problem with Macs or OSX until after it's been fixed. It happened with the move to the Intel platform. It happened when the Macs finally got pre-emptive multi-tasking. And it's happened countless other times.

That it's something I completely agree with. Wise words, indeed.
There's another thing...what if I don't want to do research?  What will I pick then?  That's what a lot of people are doing.

Paul Keith

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2009, 11:14:34 AM »
Just do your research, but don't buy a Mac because of what Mac users tell you. It's been my experience they never talk about a bug or problem with Macs or OSX until after it's been fixed. It happened with the move to the Intel platform. It happened when the Macs finally got pre-emptive multi-tasking. And it's happened countless other times.

That it's something I completely agree with. Wise words, indeed.
There's another thing...what if I don't want to do research?  What will I pick then?  That's what a lot of people are doing.

That's kind of an easy question to answer. Most people would choose/forced to use/settle on Windows and that's why they have the largest marketshare.

I think it's impossible to do no research. Even being prettified by OSX or preferring a Mac because of a bad experience with Windows is still some form of research.

Edit: Hell, even making a thread here is some form of research.  :P

nudone

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2009, 12:28:32 PM »
just saying, i was impressed with linux Mint too (as said Paul) - maybe that's the future - well, far future.

loved xp, found vista nice too (zero problems with it so far), no rush for win 7 but i know it'll be fun when i get it.

as for mac, i hope that isn't the future.

f0dder

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2009, 06:01:11 PM »
as for mac, i hope that isn't the future.
Same here - they have much nastier lock-in than MS, and given the opportunity they'd build an even nastier monopoly. Not to mention that Apple kinda is Steve Jobs - what happens when he buys the farmhouse? (going to happen sooner rather than later, cancer and all).
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Innuendo

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2009, 06:32:20 PM »
There's another thing...what if I don't want to do research?  What will I pick then?  That's what a lot of people are doing.

That's a very good question & I have a very good answer for you. This "lot of people" who are picking Macs because of what the commercials are telling them because they are easier to use and more secure than "PCs" are going to to encounter some harsh realities that no one told them about I didn't touch on in my original post:

1) OS X while shiny, easy to use, and easy to learn is not nearly as customizable as a Windows machine. Part of what makes a Mac so easy to use and learn is the user interface that is universally the same (with minor differences) no matter what Mac you use. Some would say this is because Steve Jobs is a control freak and that he wants Mac users to work the way he wants them to. My guess is that the OS X programmers just want everything to be standardized for the most part so that if you know how to use one Mac you know how to use them all.

2) These people are going to either run into their friends raving about the newest game available or their kids are going to be begging to be bought the latest game their friends are playing. In either case, there's only one sad, disappointing outcome. The vast majority of games are not playable on a Mac.

3) These people are buying Macs on the premise that they are more secure and unfortunately, they are not. Security web sites that document such things have revealed that OS X has had several times security issues than Vista has had in the last two years & while MS has patched every one on the Windows side most on the OS X side remain unpatched with no word from Apple when they will be.

4) Those who are switching from PCs who are used to be able to buy a new case, PSU, or video card on a whim whether it to be an old unwanted or outdated component or because a component died on them will be in for a rude awakening. There are no third-party cases. Your Mac is going to look the same as everyone elses. Forever. There's no running out and buying any video card you want, either. Very few video cards have OS X drivers & even if the card is supported one has to buy a special Mac version of the card that has a Mac-aware BIOS on the video card. Need another PSU? Off you go to an Apple Store or ship it off to Apple for who knows how many weeks?

Switching from a PC to an Apple is switching from a very open, diverse architecture where any choice is possible to a very closed, narrow architecture where most of your choices, if any, are dictated to you.

This is not a slam towards Macs and don't let this dissuade you from getting one if that's what you really want to do, but living in the land of Mac is a very different world than living in the land of PC and you will lose a lot of your freedom that I'm sure a lot of us take for granted if you make the move.

40hz

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2009, 06:52:42 PM »
Macintosh? I was an early adopter:first a MacPlus, later an SE/30.

bloom10.gif

I've read all six volumes of Inside Macintosh. I've 'whined & dined' with Apple hipsters. I've attended Apple conferences. And I have used Macintosh computers with varying degrees of pleasure over the years.

But in the end - the Macintosh computer is still just another piece of technology. Something to learn; something to use; and something else to scrap when the time comes.

Maybe I'm just not that sophisticated, but I have yet to find anything I want, or need to do, that I can't also do on a Windows or NIX based PC.

Macs may be nice. But they're not essential.

At least not in my world.  ;D





techidave

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2009, 06:17:27 AM »
They look good, they work without fussing around with it, and everything that it does is COOL. 

Yes they do look good.  But they don't always work without fussing around with them.  I work in a K-12 school and we do have a few Intel Macbooks in our high school.  One of the main reasons we got them were they would always "just work".  Not true.  We were told they would just work when you hooked up a projector to them... out of the box work.  Nah, you have turn the "mirror" setting on under display preferences.  And sometimes it loses that setting too.


The main apps we use on it are Indesign and Photoshop for our yearbook classes.  I don't believe they are any faster than using it on their windows machines but they have an older version so am not comparing apples to apples.   :P

I believe the pc world has made great strides to close the gap in graphic applications over the last few years.  But unfortunately those who are mac people will refuse to admit it.  Just like saying you cannot run a mac os on a windows machine.  Not true either.

I know some who seem to think those iLife applications are free on a mac but in reality you pay for them. 

And just when you thought that Apple gave education a break on software pricing, read thisabout their new program:

I just got a letter stating that Apple has a new Apple Education Licensing Program (AELP) that has replaced the previous Apple Maintenance Program (AMP) and Volume Licensing Programs.


Here is a link to the new program and cost of products under this program.  new program


For the past couple of releases of iWork and iLife we've been able to get a school building site license for $250 per software title for up to 500 seats. It appears now that you won't be able to do this individually per software title anymore, but you are required to get these together with the OS for what they call Mac Software Collection.  For 500 seats under the new program, it has a list price of $14,999 for 500 seats.  Also if I am reading this correctly, this is $14,999 per year to stay current!

mrainey

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2009, 06:51:17 AM »
Quote
Also if I am reading this correctly, this is $14,999 per year to stay current!

Sounds like a bargain - they could have charged $15,000!
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f0dder

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2009, 07:47:55 AM »
Quote
Also if I am reading this correctly, this is $14,999 per year to stay current!

Sounds like a bargain - they could have charged $15,000!
AND you're escaping the clutches of evil monopolistic Microsoft and their insane overbloated prices!
- carpe noctem

techidave

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2009, 07:51:10 AM »
You have to wonder if Apple didn't hire some ex-Microsoft employee in charge of pricing!  :o

40hz

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2009, 10:21:25 AM »
You have to wonder if Apple didn't hire some ex-Microsoft employee in charge of pricing!  :o

I thinks it's the other way around. If anything, Microsoft could learn something about the psychology of pricing from Steve jobs.

I don't think Microsoft has (or ever had) the kahunas to charge the prices Apple gets away with. Mainly because Microsoft can't get away with it. Every time Microsoft announces the price tag on anything there's a huge amount pushback. From everybody: the users, the press - and lately - national governments!

Apple users, on the other hand, seem to take an almost perverse pride in how much Macintosh hardware and software costs. They're much like the owners of those exotic sports cars you see on Top Gear.

I know a guy that just dropped something like $500 to get a xenon headlight (as in just the bulb!!!) replaced on his high-end BMW. Far from being outraged, he accepted it with a smile. He could afford it. And that separated him from the rest of the crowd.

Apple users tend to think a lot like that.

Like the slogan says: Think Different.

And always carry American Express in your wallet!  ;D:P


« Last Edit: October 02, 2009, 11:28:07 AM by 40hz »

zridling

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2009, 12:07:48 PM »
Quote
[superboyac]: I'm beginning to see that there is something inherently wrong with the Windows OS...
It eats all the hardware you can throw at it, and netbooks crawl on it; Win7 is no different in my own house. Frankly, I could no longer afford to keep up in the pre-cloud days. (I'm not a Photoshop user. After version 6 when I could no longer print money, I quit.)

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[superboyac]: Photoshop runs much more flawlessly on the Mac.
I dare say that the Mac was built solely for this program. ha! But ask yourself: will it run Wolfenstein 3D?

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[superboyac]: Over the years, I've had to spend a lot of time and energy becoming a Windows expert so that I can fix all these problems. But I'm growing up, I'm changing, I'm doing different things with my life.
My computer life took a new direction a while back and I also grew tired simply keeping up with Microsoft's turns and twists, primarily with document formats. I could no longer afford to chase them version after version within their proprietary format. Then came ODF.

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[superboyac]: I've seen more than a handful of my friends and family switch from PC to MAC in the last year. And they are very happy about it.
I've seen two of the smartest [Windows] programmer birds I've known over the past 25 years switch to Mac. You could knock me over with a feather when they showed me their new machines. Neither has returned to Windows. They absolutely love it and did not regret the decision. When they run into a problem, Apple support has helped every time without fail (and they brag about that, too).

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[superboyac]: Anyway, all the kids have Macs and they're using them in their classes and lives. Guess what is going to happen? They are going to get jobs, and they are going to want to use Macs.
That won't happen as long as Apple pricing stays high. IT budgets are seen as money pits by most CFOs. You might bring your own Mac to work, but it's unlikely they'd let you. Depends on the work, of course.

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[superboyac]: A PC is such a pain in the ass to use and get it running smoothly. Very few people have the ability, patience, and willpower to do it. We're not the norm here. The problem is that if you're not like me or us here, you WILL run into issues with the PC. Constantly.
True to my experience. It's the setup time that is daunting with Windows; viz., because I like to customize the crap out of it and of every app. From installation DVD to loading my data and a few other application tweaks, it takes me about 90 minutes to fully setup my Linux machine. The installation alone takes about six minutes.

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[superboyac]: How much longer do I want to keep tweaking my PC and keeping up with all the options and little solutions to the dozens of programs that I like to use? I love it on one hand, but it's a lot of effort and time on the other.
Among other reasons, this led me to try Linux (openSUSE, Mint, Fedora) for a full year before finally making the switch for good. The same former Windows machine was suddenly twice as fast, I got my choice of new filesystems to install, software installation and updates were stupid-safe and easy, and with virtualization, I could still open a Windows session if I needed it. The OS was free and I could build any custom PC I wanted. The only hardware I checked beforehand was the videocard drivers. Perhaps most noticeable at first is boot times.

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[superboyac]: I'm already sick of having to fix all my family and friends' problems. My dad is afraid to do anything remotely adventurous on his laptop; all he does is use Outlook, Word, Excel, and browse the internet. He will literally not do anything else. It's sad.
That is sad. But be honest: how adventurous would Dad be otherwise? It's not like he's a Wolfenstein 3D kung fu master.

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[superboyac]: So that's it. I think the Mac wave is coming. Vista sucked. The young people switched to Macs. These people will eventually influence the workplace. Slowly, the workplace will start using Macs. Windows may start dying slowly.
That wave's already arrived -- Apple's had a great decade (something to do with that whole iPod/iPhone gadgetry)! But the future is soon upon us: it's the browser, not so much the OS. A proprietary OS like Windows will restrict you in various ways. A proprietary system like Apple will restrict you in every way. I chose Linux as my OS in part because its virtualization (virtualbox; vmware server) and graphical abilities through KDE4, and now that I spend most of my computer time in the cloud, the days of building superfast PCs aren't necessary. Everything I have in the cloud is backed up in four different places. My biggest hurdle when leaving Windows was leaving behind AutoHotkey. That's the only program I missed for a while. Everything else has been a joy.

So good luck if/when you do go Mac, superboy. You'll enjoy it, but if you wait five years, you're going to be missing a lot. Once you leave Windows, you'll soon see that it isn't good enough to lure you back. Of the three big OSes, it's the last choice of those who have tried all three. (For each one's own reasons.)

rgdot

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2009, 12:21:55 PM »
In regards to freezes post XP and post 8.6 there is no difference in my opinion. I would venture to say Windows is actually better because the Windows machines I have played with have gone through much more abuse (downloads and uninstalls, system level tweaks) than the Mac ones.

Mac has silly marketing talk, like 'Designed by Apple in California' and this manages to work. I mean a phrase like that is near proof that you are buying it for "design" because obviously the processor and like have nothing to with that phrase.




Paul Keith

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2009, 08:15:32 PM »
Sorry if this comes off as spammy.

I just find it ironic that Apple can get away with this strategy even after they have hit it big with the Ipods and the Iphone:

Quote
Rule 6: Rare Doesn’t Always Mean Valuable
This principle states that the harder something is to acquire, the greater the value we place on its attainment. In
essence, we want what we can’t have and want what is hard to obtain even more. The key to avoid this rule being
used on you is to ask yourself this question: would I still want it if there were a million just like it and no one wanted
any of them?

...and turn some of it's followers into this:

Quote
Rule 7: I’m on Your Side

This technique is used to gain credibility. When used effectively, you would swear that you’ve just made a new best
friend who has your best interest at heart. For example, let’s say that you’re in a mattress store and considering
buying the Super Deluxe – a top-of-the-line bed. The salesman tells you that if you want it he’ll order it for you, but
he feels you should know something first. He tells you that while the consumer would never realize it, this
manufacturer uses recycled materials on the inside. He has thus gained your complete confidence. He’s risking a
sale to tell you something that you’d never find out otherwise. Now you’ll be inclined to trust anything he says

I know it's nothing new and it looks like I'm just kicking the Mac while it's down but I just find it ironic that no matter how compact a trick can be defined and (no matter how obvious it is), there's just no substituting what works especially if you're the company who can make it work.

Also, it's because I just recently chanced upon this article (Mixx link; PDF link) and it reminded me of 40hz's reply in this topic.

P.S. Yes, I know a much more succinct image has been posted in DC before but I just felt it bears repeating when even Microsoft doesn't get it.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2009, 08:21:59 PM by Paul Keith »