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Windows Security Essentials

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Carol Haynes:
I was just listening to a podcast by Leo LaPorte & Paul Thurrott earlier & they stated that while MSE has very good virus signatures it lacks any heuristic ability whatsoever. Heuristics, for those that aren't aware, is the part of the program that detects the bad stuff before the signatures get written. Without heuristics one is left vulnerable to 0-day exploits while waiting for a signature for a threat to be included in the daily download.
-Innuendo (October 05, 2009, 08:44 PM)
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I think the big issue is that 1.6% of KNOWN viruses got through. That's nearly 10000 threats do not get stopped. That's before heuristics should kick in.

Personally I wouldn't want a bullet proof vest that lets nearly 1 in 50 bullets through!

By the way AVAST! does have heuristics (even in the free version). The biggest problem with heuristics are the number of false positives. Wth AVAST! I have never had an infection (or a false positive), with NOD32 I have had quite a few false positives over the years. Avira has the reputation of being the most secure AV but at the cost of many false positives.

IMHO too many false positives are nearly as bad as  no heuristics because users simply get to the point where they ignore most warnings (like over picky firewalls that constantly popup - people just click 'allow' without thinking)

Bamse:
You sure about Avast and heuristics? I read on their blog they said something like most dont know we have implemented some heuristics in standard shield already, been quiet about it. Mail module have had it for years. 5 has everything.

There is a technical view on such "must-haves" and buzzwords and one of majority of users. Too easy to just recommend away, as so many experts too, since tools cant be handled. Much unstable crap as well, adds to requirements of user. All promoted as wonder tools of course. The more thinking is done the more risk of ending up with programs like Comodo or invest in mightiest of suites. Anything less is not safe, firewall story is oldest of those "truths", still going strong. For Mrs. Grandma and millions of other users that is highly irrelevant and MSE is a much better option. Some do need more because their computing is not normal or legal. Interest, paranoia counts too but separate. They still needs to manage tool of course. I would probably run an advanced firewall if I could find one that worked ok - to pad control freak on back. Nothing to do with security. Many sources try to build up demand besides everyones brain, all understand concept of "security" so interesting area to work with if into marketing. If my wet dreams come true MSE kind of stops the nonsense of weird offers for needed better security. Well, MSE and Vista, Windows 7 - even IE8 (SmartScreen) is part of this scheme.

Products that offer a new angle on how to better security are way cool of course, does not have to be freeware either. Malwarebytes with life time pro license, cost like 4-5 packs of cigarettes here. No subscription trick. Should support what works. Or take WOT, domain blocker version of Malwarebytes - which runs around the same companies crying about MSE. Block-list as useful in 2009  8) Who would have thought with all the new buzzwords. WOT can be more efficient than any AV. With Adblocking, Browser filters and WOT not much get through, is just not there. No heuristics required. If really scared for the big unknown or not able to see through scams I think WOT should be a must-have. Compare WOT with old offers from Norton, Mcafee, Trend - they are hardly functional in comparison when it comes to sites with malicious content, the red sites in WOT. Because they say they take care of bad web sites does not mean much is actually done. Just words. Annoying features about WOT is fixed by setting up plugin. Social chit chat about light or full yellow might not be interesting or make sense.

I dont know about programming but ram usage at 60-120mb+ for a not so advanced "basic" AV? Is it possible to make a pig look pretty by increasing ram usage to new heights? Would hope not and that numbers comes from tons of lovely signatures. There are slowdowns, cpu spikes when entering large folders, may be worse with archives. Actually some have complained about cpu spikes just out of the blue. Runs smoothly but then it take off for no apparent reason. Ive seen it a couple of times, sort of freezes - may be swallowing signatures? :) Can hopefully be swept under "will be fixed" carpet and not sign of MS putting too much faith in engine. Dont remember name but they did buy up a AV-company, like Giant with Defender. May be already used OneCare. Again a we will see issue, but, if otherwise functional!, you can certainly argue that MSE being simple and not so advanced is an advantage. As little as possible is better for majority people. Cant dismiss AV regardless of newer Windows improved security. Why they made it I guess. All MS. If we are all doing cloud computing in few years security will be top issue. So may be a good idea to start "managing" public today? Dont know if that is why they are so interested all of a sudden.

If Aviras heuristics is supergreat why are they beta-testing a new Pro-Active program? If whatever pass Avira today you are done for, so trying to make a system and user monitoring tool is new challenge. No one is close to safe with Avira or other scanner based tool with room for errors, not until you buy Pro-Active program. Simple logic because you are going for 100% safety not 75% and who does not run xxxxxx malware samples or has Rapidshare as most visited site. Or you fall in love with the can never be too sure, and better safe than sorry slogans - MSE have nothing to do with that but you can always argue it should since proven that blah blah.

cmpm:
Before you install Microsoft Security Essentials, you should disable or uninstall other security-related programs.
--- End quote ---
from the mse site

That's the dead-end for me with windows security essentials.
What if MSE is a security threat?

Bamse:
Just same old story about not running 2 different resident AV programs at once. More than just AV category today, a "firewall" can have AV or Spyware module so they say "secuirty-related" to cover their butt  8)

Avast claims to be compatible with MSE btw. I dont get that but cool if so http://blog.avast.com/2009/08/28/greetings-from-redmond/ Their now boss, former Symantec employee, has an interesting article about MSE http://blog.avast.com/2009/10/02/and-what-about-microsoft-security-essentials%E2%80%94mse/ Everyone is sooo interested, heh. And of course he link to a PCMag test which are completely unknown to mankind. Pretty good article though considering it comes from a competitor. MS tone down MSE but he know better as does anyone knowing MS :D

sajman99:
Before you install Microsoft Security Essentials, you should disable or uninstall other security-related programs.
--- End quote ---
from the mse site

That's the dead-end for me with windows security essentials.
What if MSE is a security threat?
-cmpm (October 06, 2009, 12:18 PM)
--- End quote ---
Microsoft has never annoyed me or given me any reason to distrust them before (he said with uncontrollable laughter).  :D

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