Home | Blog | Software | Reviews and Features | Forum | Help | Donate | About us
topbanner_forum
  *

avatar image

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
  • December 08, 2016, 04:15:12 PM
  • Proudly celebrating 10 years online.
  • Donate now to become a lifetime supporting member of the site and get a non-expiring license key for all of our programs.
  • donate

Last post Author Topic: Win7: Anyone else getting excited?  (Read 26339 times)

zridling

  • Friend of the Site
  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,292
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Win7: Anyone else getting excited?
« on: September 28, 2009, 08:34:13 AM »
windows7_logo.jpg

I know it's not a super/major change, but seems like Windows 7 is going to be a lot of fun. Heck, custom PC manufacturer, Puget Systems, says it will begin shipping Windows 7 machines on October 13th, nine days before its release date.

edbro

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • ***
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 426
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Win7: Anyone else getting excited?
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2009, 08:42:44 AM »
I've been running the 64bit Ultimate version on all 3 of my home's machines. I installed it the day it went RTM. I have a Technet sub. I wouldn't call it that revolutionary but I am very pleased with it. I have yet to see a crash and I have had zero problems finding drivers for anything. Most of my software is compatible with the OS and the rest have beta versions out there that are compatible (DirOpus for example).

The interface is slick. I am coming from XP, having skipped Vista. I did try Vista a couple of times but always got frustrated by it and uninstalled it. I don't see any of those frustrations with Win 7.

Win 7 is solid and the UI is nice. But, I don't see any compelling reason to pay hundreds of dollars for it over XP.

Carol Haynes

  • Waffles for England (patent pending)
  • Global Moderator
  • Joined in 2005
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,986
    • View Profile
    • Dales Computer Services
    • Donate to Member
Re: Win7: Anyone else getting excited?
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2009, 09:32:15 AM »
Ditto edbro's comments (except I am running the Win 7 Pro version on a MAP subscription).

It just works and has lost the annoying feel of Vista - especially UAC which I eventually turned off in Vista Ultimate as it drove me mad.

I really like the new task bar - it does what QuickLaunch should have done ever since it appeared and removes the need for the traditional taskbar.

Win 7 also feels a bit quicker and less resource intensive than Vista (I haven't done any tests but I would say it feels slightly nippier than XP too).

Whether it is worth the cost of the upgrade from XP (and the lack of proper upgrade route hassle) is debatable but if you have Vista I would say it was worth the upgrade - especially if you managed to order early and get the discount prices.

Having said that XP is on the way out and I'd guess Windows 7 will be around for quite a while. Manufacturer's will start producing drivers for Windows 7 only at some point and then an upgrade will be needed to buy new equipment.

Final comment - I really can't see the point of buying into Win 7 ultimate. OK you get Bitlocker and a few language packs but is it really worth the extra cost? Plus MS are probably going to drop Ultimate altogether by Windows 8 and that can only be helped along if people don't get suckered into the Ultimate version again! I have a free license for Win7 ultimate (sorry not transferable) but I won't even be installing it as Win 7 Pro is more than adequate for anything I am likely to do and Ultimate will only make future upgrades difficult.

« Last Edit: September 28, 2009, 09:35:00 AM by Carol Haynes »

Curt

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 7,092
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Win7: Anyone else getting excited?
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2009, 11:14:31 AM »
I really like the new task bar - it does what QuickLaunch should have done

Will the new task bar make programs like True Launch Bar redundant?  :tellme:

cranioscopical

  • Friend of the Site
  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 4,368
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Win7: Anyone else getting excited?
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2009, 02:02:50 PM »
I'm so excited that I could barely finish my rice pudding!

Innuendo

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 2,255
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Win7: Anyone else getting excited?
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2009, 02:20:47 PM »
Windows 7 is really an awesome addition to the Windows dynasty. It's going to make a lot of people happy & feel good where Windows is going as an operating system. If you have been unhappy with a lot of niggles and complaints in past versions of Windows then Windows 7 is probably going to be enough to keep you from switching to another OS or if you have switched it might be enough to get you to switch back.

If, however, you hate everything Windows & Microsoft stand for or are perfectly happy with your non-Microsoft Windows OS then I don't think there's enough magic in Windows 7 to make a compelling argument for you to come into the Windows fold, but there's still a bit of good news for you in that as with any new OS release Microsoft or otherwise, there are some nifty tricks & features present that other OS software authors will take notice of & they'll be mimicked in the OS of your choice.

As for upgrading from Windows XP,  that was a fine OS in its day and may feel like it has some life left in it, but the time is approaching that one must face the fact that XP is a seven year old operating system. That's a lifetime in the realm of computers. Many innovations have happened across all operating system platforms & it's just not as secure as a modern operating system can and should be. On October 22nd if you are one of the people running around desperately clinging to Windows XP as an operating system you are going to be roughly equivalent to that group of people who were desperately clinging to Windows 98 when Windows XP was released...and there's only a gap of four years between those OSes!

If you don't like any Microsoft OS after Windows XP then fine. Get a Mac. Switch to a recent Linux distro, but it's time to embrace a more secure operating system where it is much more difficult for trojans, viruses, and botnets to infiltrate and proliferate.

Will the new task bar make programs like True Launch Bar redundant?

The new task bar unfortunately makes True Launch Bar near inoperable. Gone are the days of being able to imbed all of TLB's nifty features into the Windows Task Bar. It's unknown if the author is going to be able to bring that functionality back, but now the way things are you have to set up a separate toolbar using a stand-alone version of TLB which, IMHO, takes away a lot of the gee-whiz handy benefits of the program.

wraith808

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 8,406
  • "In my dreams, I always do it right."
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Win7: Anyone else getting excited?
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2009, 02:23:54 PM »
I went to one of the boring windows 7 launch things today, and got much schwag-  And a free copy!

40hz

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • Posts: 11,768
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Win7: Anyone else getting excited?
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2009, 03:11:06 PM »
I went to one of the boring windows 7 launch things today, and got much schwag-  And a free copy!

Sweet!


nudone

  • Cody's Creator
  • Columnist
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,117
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Win7: Anyone else getting excited?
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2009, 05:22:06 PM »
I'm so excited that I could barely finish my rice pudding!
heheheh.

(oh, is that with jam?)

cranioscopical

  • Friend of the Site
  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 4,368
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Win7: Anyone else getting excited?
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2009, 05:55:30 PM »
I'm so excited that I could barely finish my rice pudding!
heheheh.

(oh, is that with jam?)
Some of you guys are so affluent! I couldn't aspire to that.

CWuestefeld

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 1,002
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Win7: Anyone else getting excited?
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2009, 09:08:53 PM »
AIUI, you can't upgrade an XP system directly to 7 -- the upgrade program only works from Vista. XP users must repave their whole darned system. In the end that's not a show stopper, but it means it's going to take at least 2 years for 7 to really take hold.

tranglos

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 1,079
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Win7: Anyone else getting excited?
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2009, 09:10:14 PM »
As for upgrading from Windows XP,  that was a fine OS in its day and may feel like it has some life left in it, but the time is approaching that one must face the fact that XP is a seven year old operating system. That's a lifetime in the realm of computers. Many innovations have happened across all operating system platforms & it's just not as secure as a modern operating system can and should be.

Hi Innuendo! What innovations are there in Windows 7 that make people's lives easier? Not challenging, just asking, because I've seen plenty of screenshots, but haven't read much about any feature or usability improvements.

Win2K was a plus because it was very stable. XP was better, because it made networking nearly painless, particularly setting up a home (W)LAN.

In Vista I couldn't find a similar redeeming feature. Security doesn't count really, first of all because I think UAC is a terrible idea (and I've already debated this with some who think otherwise :) ), but also because I don't consider security a feature - it's partly a prerequisite (any issues should be fixed through the update mechanism, not in a separate new version), and partly a process in which user behavior plays the biggest part. My XP boxen have always been pretty secure, regardless of how I connected. (I've only ever contracted an actual hostile virus once, in DOS/Windows 3.1 days, through a friend's infected diskette.)

One of the ideas MS floated around for Vista was the database-backed filesystem. That would have been an innovation, and a fantastic one at that, especially if they published a nice API to use in third-party applications. We know what happened to that. Aero is kind of innovative, but it's just for the looks.

So what about 7?

The new task bar unfortunately makes True Launch Bar near inoperable. Gone are the days of being able to imbed all of TLB's nifty features into the Windows Task Bar.

Yow, that's really bad. It's reminiscent of the Office 2007 ribbon, which pretty much removed users' ability to customize it. What does the new taskbar have to make up for the loss, then? (In the screenshots I can see there are no captions on the buttons. That's bad too - I use the captions.) I couldn't live without TrueLaunchBar!



wraith808

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 8,406
  • "In my dreams, I always do it right."
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Win7: Anyone else getting excited?
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2009, 10:37:53 PM »
I went to one of the boring windows 7 launch things today, and got much schwag-  And a free copy!

Sweet!



The funny thing is that I plan to use it on my MacBook Pro when I get it :)

CleverCat

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 1,158
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Win7: Anyone else getting excited?
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2009, 03:06:25 AM »
I'm so excited that I could barely finish my rice pudding!

Chris - you must have British blood! ;D

Jam? Sacrilege to spoil Rice Pudding with jam... ;)

Carol Haynes

  • Waffles for England (patent pending)
  • Global Moderator
  • Joined in 2005
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,986
    • View Profile
    • Dales Computer Services
    • Donate to Member
Re: Win7: Anyone else getting excited?
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2009, 04:20:02 AM »
Rice pudding without jam - you gotta be kidding! And don't forget the dried mixed fruit and a good dollop of nutmeg.

Actually rice pudding without jam is like Windows without security problems - no fun at all ;)
« Last Edit: September 29, 2009, 04:21:50 AM by Carol Haynes »

CleverCat

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 1,158
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Win7: Anyone else getting excited?
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2009, 05:21:33 AM »
I like mine plain... and Mum uses soya milk because I'm lactose intolerant! Makes it creamy... ;D

Innuendo

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 2,255
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Win7: Anyone else getting excited?
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2009, 12:14:30 PM »
Hi Innuendo! What innovations are there in Windows 7 that make people's lives easier? Not challenging, just asking, because I've seen plenty of screenshots, but haven't read much about any feature or usability improvements.

Oh, I know you aren't challenging as everyone I have discussed Win 7 with has seen plenty of screenshots, but a lot of what Win 7 is about can't be seen in the screenshots. Microsoft has improved the driver model for graphics drivers. If you use a WDM 1.1-capable video card you are going to see even more of the graphics load put upon the GPU which means you are going to have a faster Windows experience for one thing.

Aero Peek, Aero Shake, and Jump Lists are something that can be shown in screenshots, but you really don't start to realize how easier they make things for you till you start using them day to day. Keyboard shortcuts for launching apps that have been pinned to the start bar will be a welcome addition for those who are more keyboard-centric than mouse-centric. While we're talking about the taskbar, I'll mentioned that the system tray has enhanced functionality that will keep those two billion icons everyone has sitting in their system tray in line.

Vista had added security over XP, but that slowed down Vista's speed in some areas. Windows 7 has been optimized & now one would be hard pressed to find any area of Windows 7 that didn't behave as quickly as XP. Miminum system requirements have been dropped as compared to Vista as well. Older systems that could run XP, but choked on Vista will be able to run Win 7 as well or better than they ran XP.

Windows Explorer has been optimized and streamlined. Managing your files is easier as the more common file management functions are close at hand. My Documents has been put on steroids with the Library feature. Configure multiple directories for each category and all those files in multiple directories appear in one Explorer window.

Since you brought up UAC, you might be pleased to know that's been re-worked and optimized as well. There's now a four-position slider so you can fine-tune how you want UAC to work for you or even turn it off entirely. I will tell you, though, that I have been running it in the maximum protection mode & while I enjoy the same amount of protection Vista gave me I have seen maybe 1/10th of the UAC prompts that I saw with Vista. Part of that I attribute to MS adjusting things, but it's partly due to software authors finally starting to program in a more security-conscious way.

Faster boot and shutdown times magnitudes faster than previous Windows versions. What more can be said? Start working quicker. Finish working quicker. Those are the major highlights although there are a lot of little things you'll run into where you'll think, "Oh, that's nice. Why didn't they always do it that way?".


Quote
What does the new taskbar have to make up for the loss, then? (In the screenshots I can see there are no captions on the buttons. That's bad too - I use the captions.) I couldn't live without TrueLaunchBar!

First, let me say that you can bring back the captions and the old taskbar behavior if you want to, but I urge you to try the new way for a week or two as you may come to love it. Without the captions you can have a lot more programs open & the taskbar doesn't get as crowded or as unwieldy as the old way. With Aero Peek it's easy to see what each button is doing. Also, if a program has more than one Window open, just hover your mouse over it's icon on the taskbar & Aero Peek will show you thumbnails of all the app's windows & you are free to click on any of those thumbnails to bring the program to the front with the focus on the window you clicked. Trust me, it works a lot better than it does in the screenshots. Three people I know have said they'd hate having no captions when they looked at the articles on the internet. Once I sat them down in front of the Real Thing, however, they've all walked away with changed minds thinking the new way is way cool.

Curt

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 7,092
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Win7: Anyone else getting excited?
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2009, 01:10:06 PM »
I don't know what kind of job you have, Innuendo, but you should be working in the sales department :-)  You have made me really want to have Win 7, despite the fact that I apparently will have to say good-bye to my beloved True Launch Bar. And, like Tranglos, I really am addicted to this little wonder-app! Now, that is something!

One or two questions: Does Win 7 carry on with the "downloads" folder concept? ((Because if it does, then we really must have some program to make it a lot easier to open the folders that we move things to, after they have been downloaded and sorted out. Example: I just downloaded ReOpen from MilesAhead's site and, knowing it shouldn't be installed, I moved it (in a folder) to Program Files. But then I had to navigate to it and realized I already had forgotten the name (because I was thinking "MilesAhead" (obviously not!) instead of "ReOpen"). This is kind of silly, but must happen a lot to certain kinds of people, like me.)) Or does Win 7 have some kind of "Move Folder And Open It"?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2009, 01:17:58 PM by Curt »

f0dder

  • Charter Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,029
  • [Well, THAT escalated quickly!]
    • View Profile
    • f0dder's place
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: Win7: Anyone else getting excited?
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2009, 03:39:36 PM »
Keyboard shortcuts for launching apps that have been pinned to the start bar will be a welcome addition for those who are more keyboard-centric than mouse-centric.
Vista already supported Win+num for quicklaunch icons, which is pretty nice :) - win7 has added better keyboard navigation of taskbar+quicklaunch area iirc, but all I find myself using is Win+num.

Vista had added security over XP, but that slowed down Vista's speed in some areas. Windows 7 has been optimized & now one would be hard pressed to find any area of Windows 7 that didn't behave as quickly as XP. Miminum system requirements have been dropped as compared to Vista as well. Older systems that could run XP, but choked on Vista will be able to run Win 7 as well or better than they ran XP.
While Win7 is somewhat lighter than Vista, it's wrong saying that any hardware will run Win7 as well as or better than XP... this goes for memory, CPU and GPU. Win7 requires a relatively hefty GPU (shader support) to get GDI acceleration (which Vista has basically none of), whereas XP has GDI acceleration even on simple graphics cards. XP would run acceptably on 256meg, comfortably on 512meg, whereas Win7 is at 512/1gig instead. For CPU I'm not sure what the figures are (it's been a long time since I had a slow CPU :)), but Win7 definitely is heavier.

On adequate hardware, you don't feel the speed hit; on a dualcore machine the extra CPU cycles spent isn't something you notice, but the extra features are. With 2GB of memory, the extra ram gobbled up is pretty irrelevant (but the advantages of SuperFetch definitely aren't!). With a nice GPU, Aero is nice. But if you try to run Win7 on 5 year old hardware that ran XP fine, you'll likely be disappointed.

Part of what reduces memory footprint a fair amount compared to Vista is WDDM 1.1 drivers. If you only get WDDM 1.0 for your hardware (which might be the case with some slightly older), Win7 will work just like Vista, which means very little GUI acceleration, and all bitmap surfaces present both on GPU and in system RAM.

Since you brought up UAC, you might be pleased to know that's been re-worked and optimized as well. There's now a four-position slider so you can fine-tune how you want UAC to work for you or even turn it off entirely. I will tell you, though, that I have been running it in the maximum protection mode & while I enjoy the same amount of protection Vista gave me I have seen maybe 1/10th of the UAC prompts that I saw with Vista. Part of that I attribute to MS adjusting things, but it's partly due to software authors finally starting to program in a more security-conscious way.
Adding those security levels, or at least the way they implemented them, is one of the stupidest bend-over-for-morons things that MS has done for quite a while. Run anything but the max setting, and you're once again wide open to exploits.
- carpe noctem

MilesAhead

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2009
  • **
  • Posts: 7,287
    • View Profile
    • Miles Ahead Software
    • Donate to Member
Re: Win7: Anyone else getting excited?
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2009, 05:04:40 PM »
They could wake me up by offering a Turn in one pre SP1 Vista and get 2 Win7 of the same tier free sale.  2 and a half years in and I still can't get it to SP1.  Talk about busted out of the box!  That's why I try to get my machines with the first service pack already on.  I should have gotten a quad core with XP instead of a dual core with Vista.  Live and learn.


Eóin

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,401
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Win7: Anyone else getting excited?
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2009, 08:44:15 PM »
Adding those security levels, or at least the way they implemented them, is one of the stupidest bend-over-for-morons things that MS has done for quite a while. Run anything but the max setting, and you're once again wide open to exploits.

Is that still the case? I did a search for any recent reports of UAC issues and couldn't find any. The results that were returned by Google all related to either the beta or RC with MS promising to address those issues for RTM

Innuendo

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 2,255
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Win7: Anyone else getting excited?
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2009, 09:01:27 PM »
I don't know what kind of job you have, Innuendo, but you should be working in the sales department :-)  You have made me really want to have Win 7, despite the fact that I apparently will have to say good-bye to my beloved True Launch Bar.

Heh...I just get enthused about technology. The great thing about new MS OSes is they can be run as trial versions so you'll be able to try it before you buy it.

Quote
One or two questions: Does Win 7 carry on with the "downloads" folder concept? ....Or does Win 7 have some kind of "Move Folder And Open It"?

Now someone else will have to answer these questions. For downloads I use FlashGot on Firefox in tandem with Internet Download Accelerator that I use to segregate my downloads into various folders & for 90% of my file management I use a tweaked-out copy of Total Commander.

Innuendo

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 2,255
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Win7: Anyone else getting excited?
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2009, 09:11:13 PM »
On adequate hardware, you don't feel the speed hit; on a dualcore machine the extra CPU cycles spent isn't something you notice, but the extra features are. With 2GB of memory, the extra ram gobbled up is pretty irrelevant (but the advantages of SuperFetch definitely aren't!). With a nice GPU, Aero is nice. But if you try to run Win7 on 5 year old hardware that ran XP fine, you'll likely be disappointed.

f0dder, I have to respectfully disagree about older hardware at least in some cases. I'm running Windows 7 on a 6 year old PC from before the days of dual core processors that has a video card that is 4 generations old and Windows 7 is a LOT faster on this PC than XP was. I understand it won't be like this for everyone, but if you've got a pretty fast video card there's a pretty good chance the experience will be the same as I'm experiencing.

With Vista's release I had just about resigned myself to having to buy a new PC for Microsoft's next OS. However, Windows 7 has breathed new life into this old hardware & the improvements are so many over Vista that I'll probably be able to wait till Windows 8 (or whatever it's called) to upgrade my PC.

Disclaimer: Results not typical. Objects may be closer than they appear.  Product sold by weight not volume. Contents may settle during shipping. Void where prohibited by law.

Carol Haynes

  • Waffles for England (patent pending)
  • Global Moderator
  • Joined in 2005
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,986
    • View Profile
    • Dales Computer Services
    • Donate to Member
Re: Win7: Anyone else getting excited?
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2009, 03:13:50 AM »
I have to agree - I am running Win 7 Pro on an old single core computer (along with multibooting XP and Vista Professional SP2) and using onboard graphics (so no great shakes) and it runs as fast (if not slightly faster) than XP on the same machine and significantly better than Vista.

All of these of 32 bit editions of the OS, granted they have 2Gb of memory to play with but I have been pleased with the way Win 7 has pumped a bit more life into this system. With Vista I was thinking of looking for a new mobo to use a multicore processor but now I am not going to bother.

Innuendo

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 2,255
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Win7: Anyone else getting excited?
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2009, 09:14:45 AM »
All of these of 32 bit editions of the OS, granted they have 2Gb of memory to play with but I have been pleased with the way Win 7 has pumped a bit more life into this system. With Vista I was thinking of looking for a new mobo to use a multicore processor but now I am not going to bother.

I'm glad your experience mirrors my own, Carol. I think a lot of people are going to be happy with this release. Little Kylie didn't lie to us. More happy *really* is coming.